Karaoke Forums

takes a kiwi to understand a kiwi I guess Murray. There is just one more thing to add to what you have there...and that is I wasnt upset, nor ever have been upset at being ranked less than 10 as I do not rate myself a 10

Thanks Murray I thought I might have been having some kind of brain fart that this looked simply explained to me and not to everyone else

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

See Jian !  I proved my point.  Not only does my singing change migratory patterns of New England wild-life, but even People won't come near a location I sing ! It's been proven !  People sortuh rubberneck out've awed fascination at the weird sounds I emit, so they watch the freak show,  but nobody will sing next to me !!

I've won !

Kappy (aka-Worsesinger) <----  Number 1 low rank member of Karaoke Scene
 :worship:  :worship:  :worship:  :worship:  :worship:  :worship:  :worship:


The stats speak droves about the facts here !!!!

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My biggest fear is somebody would be sarcastic and rank me over a "3".

I could never participate in a site where I'd be brow-beaten for giving an "8" or "9" rank.  There've only been 6 subs in the three years I've been here that I'd give a "10" to,  and I'd have to be able to justify why I can't imagine the song ever being done better than that particular submitted song. a "10" would be the TOUGHEST critique to accomodate the perfect rank.  In fact, after listening to the songs I believed were "10" ranking songs at least three times,  I had to get a few other opinions.. Reason being, I assumed I just lacked the ability to be able to hear anything that could be improved upon, and needed to know if what I thought can qualify for "perfect" score, was just a limitation I had..  To me 8 or 9 IS excellent !   10 would have to be better than any other rendition of a song I've ever heard, or could imagine hearing..  

Isn't it possible to have a site ANYWHERE online where people submit something, and live with the fact that the vast majority of the ranks they are getting fall between 4-8 with lower than 4 less commonly seen, and higher than 8 quite rarely seen ?  Would that really destroy people ?  Assuming the rank is backed with commentary that substantiates it ?   Still,  Singers Showcase (overall) HAS become an environment where oftentimes a rank lower than a 10 IS in fact considered a "dis",  and that's REALLY sad !   Again,  I don't understand why so many want it this way.  Don't people KNOW where they stand as singers in the real world ?  Don't they want to know ?   Or is the showcase just like a fun boardgame, and rank and critique about as valid as monopoly money... Fact is,   it is about as real as monopoly money..Face it all,  the SS ranks system isn't 1-10, it's 8-10 with 8 replacing 1.
JMHO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hey Jian,  Let's give SS a face-drop..   we both sub,  and I promise to give you a 4 rank, if you promise to give me a 2... Assuming you're dishonest and rank me higher,  I'll sabotage your low rank by giving you an 8 !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

kappy for the last fekkin time he was browbeaten for fluffing not ranking...what is so hard to understand about that ffs?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

... ......

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Hey Kappy, I wouldn't care what rank you gave me or anyone else, as long as it's an honest opinion AND your comments explain why you gave the rank you did.  I don't see the point in giving a whole lot of fluff anf then entering a low rank.  

And then there are those who give a heap of praise to one singer who really has done a great job and performed the song well, then says almost exactly the same to a singer who is clearly off pitch, out of time and imo sounds quite dreadful.  How is one to trust any opinion by that commenter?

Vicki,  Assuming Murrays example is the case:




This is something I myself would do.  Excellent singing and great mix to me IS an "8", perhaps a "9" almost NEVER a "10" and because of this,  I'd get my butt tossed out've the showcase for being real and honest.   A 9 to me is spectacular and near perfect.  A 10 is the best I've ever heard (VERY few I've thought were 10's) That perfect rank will also likely be accompanied by a critique (that perhaps took me a day to write) reason being, THAT is one of the toughest situations I can encounter, the perfect song to me and I MUST justify to the person why the song seemed so perfect to me otherwise the 10 (A+) is useless..  Similary the person that takes the time and effort, or just has the skill to submit something I feel is a "10", deserves about a full day of my time to ponder the critique.  That's an AMAZING score few should get !  

There's only ONE case where I can envision myself possibly taking umbrage at receiving a rank lower than a "10" (assuming I allowed myself to get used to such an atmosphere) and that would only be if EVERYBODY is given a :10: by a particular person, meaning everyone with one or two exceptions.. ME, and somebody else I know they personally disliked.. Given THAT type setting where a person gave me an identical critique (as he gave the 10's he handed out), but instead for some reason gave me an 8 (when *ALL* others received 10's over time).. I'd think his actions being out've character and contrast to ALL other instances had an innuendo.  HOWEVER, IMHO (and this isn't being said to just you Vicki, but to ALL in SS who now perceive "8" as a poor score), it's really ashame things have gotten to a point where 8 IS NOT perceived as EXTREMELY good work.  Billy himself states that perhaps overall he's likely an "8"..  What has happened to the 1-7 portion of the 1-10 ranking system ? I don't understand it.. This is an artform,  it's REALLY difficult, do people have that little respect for singing to just hand out tens so freely and uniformly ? Yeah, in the showcase they do.  What's the point ? Among adults that respect the arts ?   I wouldn't want it for me personally.. Maybe it's fun to get used to being a "10', I know I could assuming I subjected myself to it (OF course I could get used to having a line of super-model females waiting outside my door everynight too) It's NOT real, It's in my wildest dreams, so I suppose that's what Showcase is, some wild dream ... But of course on the internet the average male has an income of twelve digits,  (not to mention a 5th appendage of twelve inches too), so I suppose in internetland anything can happen.  I really haven't followed what's going on here... and in order to follow what's going on, I'd need to see exactly (not via PM) but exactly what this whole situation is about by viewing unedited comments, and stuff that's in the past,  but really, this specific situation is just between PaddyBoy and Vicki anyway.  I'm reacting ONLY assuming the nature of this is what Murray stated..  meaning,

Excellent comment accompanied by what's construed as a sabotaging type rank of "9" because there's no reason it shouldn't be a "10" ?

That just sounds so wrong IMHO ...I'm sorry, but there's every reason FEW of the 10's should be 10's in the showcase. THe whole place has become A$$-backwards, and it's taking many reasonable people with it. What's showcase come to ?  "No reason it shouldn't be a 10"?  Fabulous, and near best I ever heard is a "9" IMHO  

JMHO..  High ranks exchanged HAVE become the expectation in the showcase, and the fact is people DO now expect 9's and 10's (meaning lower rank is construed as a personal dig) this stuff DOES and has become an obsession for MANY in the showcase and I can't blame folks I suppose if they allow themselves to get pulled into this social meeting place, but what's happened is showcase has become exclusive of those wishing to partake in Critique and Rank as it HONESTLY can exist. People in showcase won't tolerate even *others* getting a 7 (others who believe that's all *they* deserve) as a result of this race for the higest rank, and this has been displayed quite a few times in the past. Concern being it poses some threat to the current ranking bell curve and goes against the "flow". Few will allow it to coexist in the showcase. Instead of OBJECTIVE *singing* rank (without regard for personality in a singing setting) now NOBODY in the showcase is supposed to be honest !  It's deteriorated to that point !  Showcase is now individuals exchanging "Frat" or "Sorority" type handshakes, and it really appears as only a popularity contest that people wish to hang in with and little else. It's no reflection of singing ability. It's also obvious that to give a lower than 9 score is like spitting at a person rather than exchanging a handshake yet MOST won't admit to that. It's pretty easy to see what happened in the Showcase just by quickly glancing in from the outside. That's TRULY how it appears !!  Assuming a person does wish to honestly rank another individual without regard for the current "mainstream flow", honest rank and Critique *ARE* chastised by viewers in the showcase watching this happen.   Don't most over time wish to preserve their HIGH rank ? What *IS* truthful about the showcase ?  One thing I can think of, It's an *honest popularity contest* and nothing more !  Those honest and truthful that wish for no part of a club mentality end up getting bashed or ousted.

Showcase works for some I suppose,  But God forbid somebody ranks a singer based solely on *their singing* and all hell breaks loose. The problem is, Murrays scenerio meaning "below 10 in most settings becomes associated with nastiness" and this LOW score should be vindicated by pointing out flaws HAS become the showcase norm, but a 9 score can have VERY few discernible flaws and very few in the current showcase setting substantiate ANY rank they give, the highest ranks are handed out as a path of least resistance, "it's easy to do", and it's the expectation for MANY "praise in the comment areas should be accompanied by nothing less than a 10".. It's no "singers" ranking system because there's NOTHING honest about showcase as a representation of singing ability. In my opinion EVERYBODY that can't tell a person something (in a Critique setting they believe will improve a subpar performance of a song, but instead due to 'following the flow mentality' feel compelled to give the individual a 9 and only kudos) while in doing-so HONESTLY feel some tweaking might improve the persons singing- ARE being dishonest, and encouraging this nonsense. It's been this way for quite some time,  and those that truly want honesty in the showcase can't receive it, so the setting either molds people to BS, or those wishing for GENUINE critique and ranking to exist get ganged up on because to coexist instead of going with showcase flow, isn't tolerated either. This IS what showcase has become, a place where NOBODY DARE give a "7" because it's a bash, and most are lied to by all who are afraid to give the 8 or lower rank singer that WANTS an honest representation of where they stand an honest rank, it's shunned in the showcase setting (fearful for numerous reasons, some quite selfish in the SS setting, others just going with "a flow").  The showcase has become,  "Hey wecome,  screw honesty and grab a backscratcher, it's my turn next" ! This is no single persons fault, it's EVERYBODY who participates in this social clubs fault because it shuns honest singing feedback.. Showcase is supposed to be about singing, not popularity !  What's worse, is it's become pretty exclusive.. Those that like it this way, won't turn their back letting others use it as an HONEST SINGING forum.



In a context where dishonest behaviour abounds, few should be trusted, or assume the person giving them a 9 and 10 GENUINELY believes that the person receiving the score IS in fact a 9 or 10 average after subbing 50 songs. It's just folks sharing their candy.  Showcase is NOT a microcosm of honest singing skill, it's a popularity contest, and social club and nothing more. It's a mockery if viewed as genuine representation of Singing skill.

I don't sub in showcase because I don't want to be lied to, or involved in politics. Independantly in order to improve I must accept where I truly am, BUT since singing is so hard for us to hear ourselves do with objectivity, I rely on YOU FOLKS to be honest... NOW do you see why I loath the behaviour I see in the showcase ? It IS dishonest !  It makes it VERY hard to trust anybody !  There's NOTHING honest about a huge number of showcase exchanges as viewed by MOST observing what's going on in that setting.  People in the showcase setting wish to hang onto their HIGH scores regardless of their singing ability.

Kappy <-- not a Kiwi, but can spell behaviour like the best of em !  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

kappy I am not even gonna try and read that. If you dont understand where I am coming from then so be it...its no big drama. I hate fluff...end of story.

I am however rather relieved that my compatriot is still the down to earth straight shooter and CONCISE person that we kiwis have come to be known and respected for. Thank you Murray for maintaining my faith that there are still a few of us left in the world  :hug:

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

So spelling behaviour the right way doesn't make me royalty ?  I even own King Ralph on VHS !  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven for the last ***king time I did not accuse anyone of sabotaging my sub. Anyway you will believe what ever you want to so I am through trying to explain myself.

Like I always say, I still get booked and I still get paid, even though I am a 7 or 8 at best (IMHO)

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

but you have never sub in SS; I had done that, and one comment I got was " my fart sound better than your singing ....". Can you beat that? translated into rank that should below zero.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Believe me,  If I was promised such high praise,  I'd be subbing in the showcase.  What bothers me about the showcase setting is in order for a friend to be honest enough to compare my singing to farting they'd have to be angry at me personally, few are honest enough to rank my singing based upon it's on merit.  In reality even on my best day singing, my farts have MUCH better timbre, much better resonation quality too.  I'm totally confident with my ability to fart and it'd bother me if somebody discredited my farting skills by comparing it with my stinky singing !  

If I farted into the microphone people would say "Kappy, I can't believe how good you've gotten in less than a month.  It amazes me how you are finally getting some amazing depth and personality to that voice of yours."

See Jian,  you are MUCH better at singing than I am  :worship:  :worship:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

BOys ....BOYS!  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO if the SS has degenerated into dishonesty..then I log into the forum and it's degenerated into a fart contest,,,I'm going to bed...this is a waste of time

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Okay, okay already!
Stop your frinking fluffing on Critique subs.  Assume the sub-ee really is serious about wanting an opinion and a few words of wisdom and give it to them if you¡'ve got anything to give.  Over on the Critique Me, Please forum I thought their point of view and intentions had great merit and promised to give an honest critique when it was asked for.  If I have something dastardly to say, I do it in a pm.  If I have something to say to a person who subs Just For Fun, I do it in a pm if I feel they might be receptive to my opinion.  

I became a member to get my music on the world wide web, so I could share my music and camaraderie with other like thinking people and have a way for my friends and family to be able to hear what I'm up to musically.  Other people may have other agendas - I don¡¦t care what they are.  Sometimes I go away when it gets too thick on SS with political c**p, or when my 'other life' needs tending to.  Since the only way to get like thinking people to respond is to comment on subs and remind them of your presence, I comment as regularly as I can.  Sometimes, depending on what I perceive to be their abilities, I may fluff a bit (I call it being polite to those I respect and those who need me to be) but that's only on Just For Fun subs.  I never go on and on about a singer unless I mean it.  

But for heaven's sake please don't fluff because everybody else does.  It reflects badly on the site and threatens any credibility it may have.  It shows a lack of respect for singers but mainly for myself.  I want folks to know I'm straight with my comments.  The only way to stop something that you don't like is to just not do it.  You be the first.  Maybe you'll be the only one.  But you will not be a part of the problem.  Like Mom used to say, "Don¡¦t jump off a cliff because everyone else is doing it.¨  But    I digress.  

We have marvelous singers on SS.  I use the site to listen to how the normal, unglitzed up singer approaches a song.  I love that.  I get just as much from a singer who's not the best but sings from down deep in their gut.  I love that, too. I applaud those who can't sing a lick but put themselves out there so they feel they still exist.  I probably will not listen to those who obviously think they are better than the rest, refuse to acknowledge an honest comment that is made to them and never deign to comment to other members.  They bore me.

And finally, stop your frinking ranking if you don't believe in it.  Admin doesn't need to change the SS site permanently.  Take it on yourself - don't rank. Since I've been a member I have never ranked anyone.  I think it's way too subjective and who am I anyway.  There are also too many folks out there with their own agendas who will rank according to that agenda.

Hugs to y'all.  Barbara B

This is one of the best opinions on this topic i've ever heard...no fluff....

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

You LOVE IT,  and you know it
 I just had to let that one loose

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

you go Barbara! It's nice to hear someone say exactly what I was thinking. Let's take it one stpe further. I have seen so many "honest" people get REAMED for being so by the subee's "friends" Should the indignant friends be addressed? I am also on youtube and I love that there- you have the option to comment on anyones' "comment" That way if someone says something that is out of line- they can be called to task for it. Or if someone says something you totally agree with- you can state that too. How's that for a suggestion?

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Hi Paula. I have a question that might be relative to a critique, but since I'm asking, I guess it would be a critique.
Now, as most everyone here knows, I don't usually ask for a formal critiquing of anything I sub in SS.....it just doesn't mean that much me.....I have a day job.

But I think anyone who subs should be able to take a little bit of helpful advice whether they ask for it or not....correct? And I've always stated that it wouldn't bother me if someone had a negative comment within reason on one of my subs.

My real concern is something to do with my health, and how many people have noticed it, but never mentioned it before.
I figure with you being a professional singer for years, maybe you could take a listen to one of my subs and let me know if there's anything abnormal about my voice....other than my usual detachment of emotion to deliver a song exactly as the original sounds?
The song is "My Love" by Little Texas.
I'm already aware that I didn't deliver the song correctly....found that out later on while listening to the original. And it was a morning sing as most of mine are because I have to be done with this stuff before everyone gets home.
So that being, my nasty smoker's lungs haven't cleared much at all after waking for the day, and never really does very much later on in the day either. And I always start my day with a healthy dose of tar & nicotine along with the usual few cups of coffee or whatever. But usually, I'm not just waking for the day. It's after I get home from work and haven't slept for over 24 hours and probably going on my 3rd pack of smokes, but I'm still awake and trying to sing a song.

Is there any way without being a doctor that you could tell me if I have nodules on my vocal cords from just listening to my song?
I will add that I've been sick for about a month now....still am. I think I might have pneumonia in my lungs. I know something isn't right.

So, if you read this, and could possibly make it over for a listen, I'd appreciate it much!
Afterwards, if you have a comment,(or diagnosis) it doesn't matter where you make it. You could come back here, or make it onsite. It's not a private matter. It's already out in the open. Thank You.  :wave:

Perry, if you really think you have pneumonia, you should go to the doctor asap and get a chest x-ray!

Second, what you said, "But I think anyone who subs should be able to take a little bit of helpful advice whether they ask for it or not....correct?"
In theory, yes, but no.  That's why people choose "just for fun" because they don't want critique.

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~Suzanne Lanoue~