Karaoke Forums

I finally did my first show Thursday night, and I have to tip my hat to all of you KJs that have been doing karaoke for awhile.  It was A LOT of work, and I have much respect for you guys.

All in all it went well.  The patrons had a great time, I just didn't have many come in.  It was the first night for karaoke and the bar is only 2 months old, so that let to a small crowd.  My rotation was short - 3 singers for most of the night.  I played some dance music in between the rotations to give me a breather, since I was one of those 3 singers.


I think I dealt with everything my first night - Small rotation, drunks grabbing the mics & trying to be up next, empty bar - it was frustrating.   Plus I got a call from the owner the next day saying the bartender recommended someone on Monday (before my show) and they want to try him too before they decide who to go with.

So after all that I have a few questions....

What do you guys do to deal with the small rotations?  I had a hard time with my emceeing since I had to sing so much.   Also - what are you're thoughts on checking out the competition?  Should I go or not.  I'm thinking I shouldn't go, but on the other hand.....

Kind of an iffy thing, checking out the competition. Doesn't hurt to go and watch but I know I always feel a little weird doing that. And 99% of the time  I am disappointed in the quality (or lack of it) in most shows...then I have to really hold my tongue with owners because I want to tell them "like it really is."  That can sound hyper critical to some owners and turn them off. Checking out the competition will provide you with more info so you can sell your show better.

Re: Small rotations. It happens. Important thing is to keep the energy level up. It also gives you time to fraternize with the singers that are there - doesn't hurt to make points with those people, ingratiate yourself...Ask the bartender what kind of music HE'd like to hear ... extend the time of the bumper music a little. Involve the other singers with 'group' stuff.

Are you doing your own marketing? Time to call in all those markers if you are.

Best of luck, hope the bar decides to put you to work instead of someone else... Heads up, positive attitude. It all helps.

K

TxDavid, don't get discouraged, I know that if you read this forum it seems like everybody pulls in 450 people a night and the bars make 5000 every time they do karaoke. Okay I'm being a bit facetious, but you get my drift. Although I am not a true KJ ( my brother has his own show ) I do help and I feel like I have an insiders view.

When my brother started, his first gig was at Barney's Billiards so he was lucky that he had a built in crowd. ( Barneys has since been shut down, so this is not a promo ) But he built a following by providing a different style of karaoke. Most karaoke shows around here cater to a more of a country audience. They use smaller speakers and do not have much bottom end. Many times their vocals are drowning out the music. Although I am sure you can get decent bass out of these smaller speakers it seems like that isn't the way they want their music to sound.

My brother caters to more of a rock oriented crowd, but we do love to have people sing country to shake up the mood a bit.

My brothers set up is fairly simple by the standards around this forum but it has a full sound and he is constantly adjusting for different singers and the variations of mixes on the CDG's. One thing you have to be careful of is when meeting new people and trying to build a following is that not all people are as they first appear. We try to be friendly and helpful and encourage singers, but it is easy to create monsters.

Talk to the bar owners about advertising and what they expect out of you, get a feel for what the crowd at this particular venue enjoys. Don't be gimmicky, just provide a friendly and caring attitude about what you are doing and hopefully things will get better.

If you can, ask a few friends and family to attend your show, people driving by ( especially during weekdays ) will be more inclined to come in if they see somewhat of a crowd. It is just my opinion but I don't see anything wrong with visiting another show, you might get tips on what to do and what not to do.

I am down the road ( 59 South, Victoria ) and we are in an entirely different type of market, but we do well and the bar owner is my next door neighbor so we have a great relationship with him. My brother is picking up another gig and this will be a totally different type crowd, older and with children so it will be fun hearing and doing different songs. Sometimes you just have to adapt, hopefully we will.

Oh and by the way, I am soon to be in the market for a new car, so I will probably be down your way, shoot me a PM and let me know if you are still at this or any other venue and I'll come sing with you and bring a few people too. Best of luck, Rudy.

I started playing a brand new bar that just opened in December.  


It's a NO SMOKING BAR.

The majority of the people coming in love that idea.


Started the first week of January.  

The biggest problem is getting people to know there is a brand new bar, in a brand new building.

This week 24 singer.  Last week 18.   It takes time for the word to spread.


If you do it, they will come.    Good luck.

I had 2 other KJs in last night.   One i have known for years and one i never met.

TxDavid,
 Welcome to the slaughter house !! Karen K was right when she told you "positive attitude". Believe it or not, the crowd, regardless of the size, can "feel" any good or bad vibes coming from their host. Starting out in a new bar is not the easiest thing to do because more than likely, the owners are "new" too. They're looking to grab a piece of the market on the night you're providing entertainment, and some owners are not very patient and expect instant results. Unfortunatly, that isn't being realistic,....or fair to you. The fact that the bartender recommended another to "try out", and the owner agreed, would send alarm bells off. You may want to have a sit down with the owner and try to lock him in to X amount of weeks to give you a chance to build up a following. Every owner usually asks..."do you have a regular following?" Naturally, we'd like to lie and say yes to get the gig, but being honest is usually better in the long run. When I've been asked that question, I said, " I haven't played this town yet..but give me eight weeks and I will." I've also been fortunate enough, when starting a new venue, I've asked "friends" to drop by..sing a few songs...banter with the bartender, waitresses, AND the owner, and get direct feedback that way. Have the owner contact one of his liquor distributors, and have a sign made WITH YOUR NAME ON IT, specifying what nights and times the shows are. It costs them nothing. The flip side is the advertisement. Also, (hate to mention this but) make sure the owner has paid his "fees" to the appropriate parties. Once advertising is involved, be it signs, newspaper, even word of mouth, the "KJ Police" will be looking for their "fair" share.
 Now...slow nights for the newbie. Again, Karen K was on the money, This gives you a great opportunity to "network" with the singers and the workers in the establishment. It also gives you AND the singers a chance for "karaoke practice". There are a lot of times when someone wants to try a song, but feel uncomfortable because of "too many" people. That small rotation is the perfect time for "practice". Plus if it's that slow, with the owners permission, maybe the waitresses/bartender/owner might want to have some fun. Maybe because of the small crowd you get someone to sing who wouldn't normally get up there. That in itself is worth the slow night. I absolutely love it, when someone sings at my show, that never sang in public before, because I made them feel comfortable enough to do it. THAT ROCKS.
 TRUE STORY: The gig I'm at presently NEVER had a karaoke show before me. There's 4 bars on the same strip, within 8 blocks of each other, all having shows on Friday nights. I was asked to "apply" for the gig by some friends of mine. Ok...I sit down with the Board of Directors and the Entertainment Committee. (now keep in mind that I'm scheduled to have surgery 13 days PRIOR to my first night there....carotid artery surgery) Ok..they ask me how much, I say $175. They ask what hours should the show be. I said 8pm to 12midnight. I further explained that if the crowd is having a real good time, I normally would play later, given that they can serve until 2am. (They liked that ..a lot) They initially wanted to give me 4 weeks to "see how it goes". (normally, I usually require 8, but figured I'm the first guy in here so give it a shot) I agreed to the 4 week "trial". Then we discussed my beers..on them..no problem. Then made sure they had BECKS...they didn't, but assured me they would....they did. I explained that I, and only I, run the show. Any decisions in that aspect were mine. No Bar Manager, Committee Member, Bartender,. no one..interferes with the way I run my show. In these instances, you HAVE to be firm. After all was agreed on, then I told them about my upcoming surgery, how it's my second time, and forsaw no problem doing the show. Ok..had the surgery..home the next day...loosened up the vocals and got busy putting "stuff" together for "opening night". Now...this was the clubs "End Of The Summer" party. This ran from 7pm-12midnite. (yes I got an extra $100 for doing 5 hrs instead of the usual 4.) Anyway, the party was a huge success...had 3 "karaoke virgins", I was having so much fun that I played until 1am. ( man was I beat after that...but it was worth it) Two weeks after that I got my "contract extended to February 1st. After I did their Christmas Party, I got extended to the last Friday in May. THe best thing is that two of the clubs in the area that had karaoke that night, now do it on Thursday and Saturday....nights I'm not around.
Finally, in my opinion, it doesn't hurt to check out the competition. All around, it's a learning experience. Even a "bad" kj could possibly show you something. Like, what NOT to do during a gig. When you see it ..you'll know...instantly.
 Don't be afraid to be friends with other KJ's. They can hook you up with gigs they may be too busy for, give you info on where to get good deals on equipment (like here) and give sound advice on various bar owners and establishments. I personally have 4 KJ friends, and we go to each others show on our off nights to socialize, have a few, sing a few, just being on the "other side" is nice and relaxing. No pressure...no "you skipped me"...no "am I next?"
So, once agin, welcome. Approach the owner with all the positives, look him straight in the eye when speaking to him, and end the conversation, good or bad,
with a firm handshake, and look him in the eye then also. Remember..it's business....for him...AND for you. Good luck...keep us posted.


                                          Donny "B"  

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It's a wonderful life!!

I agree with the making of friends with the other KJ's, I in no way meant any disrespect to the other KJ's in our area, we are friends with all of them. We all choose to run our shows differently and according to how we see fit and accordingly to the crowd we wish to attract. Donny B makes some good points.

Kiss a lot of (@$%&#!) with your customers, YET still be in control of the situation!  They will appreciate plus learn your rules!  If it's slow, try double shotting - everyone sings twince in a row, this helps drag the night out & it gives the singer an extra few minutes of fame.
Advertise wherever you can beit with the promo banners that the bars can get from their beer/liquor distributors, anywhere on the web, several free sites & you'd be surprised at how many people do searches.  Get a MySpace site (it's free) & PUSH it in the bar & start a group for your singers to talk about the karaoke, singing, friends & the bar, who knows, friends of theirs may see that they come in & sing & may want to come in to watch and/or join as well.  Take pictures of the singers & crowds & post them on the site.  You can post bulletins of events that all the friends will get - special events, drinks specials for the night, etc.  
Take requests from the singers that are going to support you & try to get their songs to make them want to come back.  You don't need to get every song in the world, just the ones that are going to matter at the particular club - if you do multiple clubs, the requests may vary & change even in genres.  Don't ever just pick what you want or what you THINK they might like, you'll most likely end up with a bunch of dust collectors.
Just a few things that may help.  
Also NEVER let the crowd take control of the situation, if someone jumps up, try to discourage it & walk them off the staging/singing area.

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Good KJs just make it look like we're not actually working.

I've only been at this for a couple of years. And pretty much at the same place. When I started, I was singing practically all the songs because attendance was light and karaoke was new there. But every few songs I'd grab a book, go to a table, and say something like "You're probably getting tired of hearing just me so what do you think... give it a shot? C'mon..." Eventually a few started to open up. That started the ball rolling. Then a few more got brave. Then they started to bring their friends. Now I can't get them to stop! ... no complaints... that's what I wanted...

I wouldn't check out a guy auditioning for the same job I was  myself. But for me at first it was important to check out all the rooms in the area, not just to see the KJs work but to see who was singing and (very important) what they were singing because I had a light list. Still do compared to a lot of you guys.

I'm friends with the two other KJs in my immediate area and we have sung in each other's rooms, though I must admit I haven't done that in awhile. We're not in competition really because we're doing different things, so I bring 'em right up and even announce where they work.

Hey TxDavid,
Just like everyone else it takes time to build a crowd. If you are in a new place or moving from place to place that doesnt usually have karaoke it makes it hard. Im also from the Houston area and I know that people like to dance. Sounds like you did the same thing I would have done. Play dance music and sing as much as you feel comfortable singing and let those that want to sing, sing as much as they can. As long as the crowd enjoys what you are doing they will stay.  I'll be glad to come out and sing with you sometime  if you'll PM me and let me know where you are going to be.

Phil

Welcome and wish you much success.
Most owners think when they hire a KJ to host a Karaoke show it automatically comes with 30 paying patrons per night.  The 1st question many owners/bar managers will ask a KJ is ...UH Do you have a following ? How many people can you bring in per night ?.  It's not easy to build a following and won't happen over night ..but dedicated singers usually find the GOOD SHOWS as long as the rest of the bar is not a sheit hole with high prices and nasty bartenders. Having a succesful Karaoke Show takes more than just a great KJ and bar owners need to understand that it is a partnership type of effort to build and keep a good clientele.

Keep doing the ABC's of hosting and you will do ok  in the long run. and when all else fails --bring alot of friends your first night in any new place  LMAO

Truth is, we sometimes give ourselves too much credit. A successful room is always a wacky combination of all kinds of things, from such trivia as ease of parking to sheer dumb luck. A decent host with good sound and selection is important though.

Good for you TxDavid, keep the moral up and it'll all work out.  Sometimes, even no matter how hard you try to avoid a potential bad situation, you still get stuck right in the middle of it.  I just started a new gig on Fridays, but did not go off as planned.  They call me at LAST minute on Friday.....could I be there in 2-1/2 hrs, I was 2hrs away.  Needless to say, I made it, barely.  Booked for every Friday, no problem!  Well the normal Saturday KJ, who found out Saturday night before his show, got rather upset over the whole deal.  I have no intention of taking his gig, I told the owner that 1st thing before I even accepted the 1st gig, then repeated to the other guy who does Saturdays.  I work steady Saturdays at another place.  He quit, but maybe reconsidering..who knows.  He wanted to start back up on Fridays too and the owner wanted to go down a different path, so here I am stuck in the middle.  I attended his show on Saturday (I was supposed to have the weekend off, but acceppted this other gig...so I was free Saturday night), where we talked about it for a while, he was very upset.  I don't know how it will turn out.  Point is, you can only control what YOU do....do the best job YOU can do, the rest will work itself out.
MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Thanks to everyone for the support.

I'm not too worried about it being slow - The owners (there are 4!) understand that it will take some time to build a show.  The place is small and by 10pm there were maybe 20 people inside.  By 11:30 there were 10.

My sound was dead on, I had a mic die on me, but it went out between singers.  I swapped it out and moved on.  I mixed every singer, and even one complimented my sound.

They told me about the auditions after the show, and did tell me it was not going to be decided based on the amount of crowd.  I get a good vibe from them - They called me several weeks after my original pitch & follow up visits - so I think they just want to "get a second opinion".  I know all the good KJs in the area and they all have shows that night, so I do have a great shot at getting the gig.  The owner did mention the other one "had a following" so that might kill me, might not.  One of the owners was there until 12:30 and did see everyone having a good time, so we'll see.....

Thanks for the tip about the banner.  I was going to have one made myself, I had no idea the liquor distributors would do one.  I'll approach the bar about it.

As far as the dance music - I tried to keep it to 3 songs - I did 4 in one set just because I wanted to keep the dancers out there.  I had one of the three singers get agitated for the long dance set, so I said I would do two rotations before the next set and they were happy. (it was only a 3 singer rotation by then).

Most times a KJ looking for a job that says he has a big following, is full of hot air.  His following may very well consist of his relatives and a few singers that get "special" singing privledges every rotation.

If the above is the case, the bar owner would do better to stay away from them anyway.   They just kill the business.


Every bar attracts it's own crowd of people that want to be there on that night.  Some may change their existing plans and switch their "going out" night.    

No KJ has an instantly large crowd at a brand new job.

TxDave

As already suggested, the benefits of a positive attitude cannot be overstated.  Several of Karen's points are extremely important. Karen is right-on about the necessity for trying to ingratiate yourself to everyone.

Also, you must maintain a high energy level at all times, which can, understandably, be challenging in the circumstances you experienced. In regard to maintaining a high energy level, you can only control what you choose to sing or the bumper music you choose to play.  Make sure that whatever you choose to sing is upbeat.  

Benefit from BillH's suggestion of handing song catalogs out while explaining how your catalog works (by Artist, by Song Title) (in the Artist's book, first name is first, or last is first, etc)  Then take the situation one step further and offer to stay up with them and help with the song if it becomes necessary.  

You may suggest to the owner that you run a raffle for a $xx.xx bar tab.  Each time someone takes a turn singing, their name is entered into the raffle.  The winning name is drawn at the end of the night and the winner must be present to win!  Obviously, those who sing the most (and announce this) have the better chance of winning, statistically!

Karen's point about group participatiion is the most important!  I always seek group participation, particularly among those not in the rotation.  Hopefully, you will find people from among that group who will be receptive to your overtures.  If you're successful in getting some of the non-participating people to join in, you could quickly increase the size of the rotation.

To check who might be receptive to getting involved (at any level) I developed my own approach.  First of all, toy percussion instruments are passed out to those just sitting around.  Anyone who doesn't pick up one of these toys is unlikely to be a participant in much of anything.  I then focus on those who fool around with the toys and try to determine who displays the most potential for joining a sing-along.  I then encourage such individuals to sing during a sing-along by offering them a mic to do so (sometimes that means placing the mic next to them on the bar).  And those who join in on a sing-along are the first you should try to encourage to get up on their own!

Just some more "food for thought"

Congrats on your first show David. Once word gets round on the grapevine that there's a new show it should get busier for you  :hi5:  PM all us Houston area singers and let us know where and when your next gig is.

Congrats on your first show David. Once word gets round on the grapevine that there's a new show it should get busier for you  :hi5:  PM all us Houston area singers and let us know where and when your next gig is.