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Private parties I ask for a 25% non-refundable deposit. If a gig is cancelled on their part, I still have something for my trouble, if it was cancelled due to a problem on my end (has never happened) I would definitely refund. The rest would be collected on the night of the performance per the contract. Haven't been burned yet.

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I don't do contracts for regular gigs, and as of yet have not used them for private parties. I know most of the people I do private parties. In the past I have waited till the end of the show to collect my money, and this hasn't been a problem yet. I will start collecting the money after setup in the future, just to avoid the problems everyone else has seemed to of had.

I haven't asked for a deposit up front, except for once. I didn't know these people well. I will continue to do this for new customers, and will consider it for all gigs. There has been only once where someone cancelled on me at the last minute. I had turned down other gigs, since I was already booked. I would have been really mad, but I was lucky enough to get another gig booked for the same night, so no lost income, and not much wasted time.

Felix the KJ

I'm very surprized by most answers not going with a contract on weekly gigs. Especially with the way the economy is, etc. This is the busiest time of year where I am and if you want my services then you gotta sign my very simple contractural agreement.
It must be my real estate background. I'm not committing myself to be somewhere week after week without something on paper.

I worked with companies that used contracts in the past, the clubs cancelled karaoke, 2 of the companies tried suing for remaining balance & not only lost, had to pay their court fees as well. Why did they lose, simple answer by the club - karaoke was not working & needed to go another route (similar in both instances) - judge agreed. I have seen similar reports from other sites. Contracts in clubs aren't really worth anything. I too thought I should use them in the clubs when I first started, but found it hard to find a club WILLING to sign & would just go with other companies than sign my contract so I quit using them for clubs. In todays economy I really wouldn't use one in a club, if it isn't working because people can't afford to come out & spend money, i'm not going to force the club to keep me & pay me when my services aren't generating anything because of the economy.

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I agree, Lon!

As I said earlier, if the bar feels it's not making money, they'll make the change. Like starting NOW.

The bar business is really unpredictable and personalities, situations, and ownership can change in a heartbeat.

If a bar wants you gone you are gone. If you want to leave and have a contract and you are worth a damn then they will insist that you must stay until the contract ends.

I can understand why some folks would want to have some guarantees if they were full-time KJ's but frankly contracts rarely work the way they were intended anyway.

A contract is binding only if you are prepared for a legal battle. Most bar owners are going to call your bluff on it banking on you not having the "Kahonies" to follow through with making them honor the contract.

A handshake agreement is worth just as much to me as a piece of paper.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I almost can't believe I'm saying this, but I really think that the bar subculture runs at a higher moral standard than real estate markets.

No I will say it. Real estate agents are some of the most greedy and immoral people I've ever met. But working bars, it's still is kind of a man's word is his word, and it's good. However there's always the implicit understanding that if things aren't working out there will be some changes made.

I'm wondering if there's a regional thing going on here though. Are contracts more common for KJs and clubs in Florida?

Thx Bill.

I wont take personal offense to the assanine comment you made regarding realtors. You've obviously had a bad experience or two with realtors where your from but to lump us all into that category is rather naive and stereotypical in nature.

Back to the topic at hand. Where I live in Florida it really isn't the norm to have a contract with a bar owner. However, Companies such as Applebees, TGIFridays, Stevie Tomatos Sports page dont have a problem wih it and I think it makes me appear more professional. I have had some local bar owners balk at the idea originally but usually come around once they see my "simple agreement".

I know it probably wouldnt hold up in court but it does outline my duties and responsibilities as well as theirs. I also think it obligates us both more so than a handshake or oral agreement. If its on paper and signed by both parties there's no chance for "he said, she said" later on when or if a dispute arises.

You know what..... If the establishment where I was KJ'ING told me they could no longer afford me or they werent turning a profit I would listen to them and more than likely walk away without holding their feet to the fire. I'm sure it wont be a surprise to me if it happens. I'm still pretty new to the business but certainly know when a show is working or not because I ask the owner/manager after every gig.

I also want to point out that the contract doesnt just obligate the bar owner it also obligates me. It's a two-way street. Say I'm doing this gig witgh a 4 week contract and I get an offer to do another place the same night for twice the money. I cannot accept that opportunity because I obligated myself to the other guy. It's a "financial risk" for both parties.

What part of Florida are you located SpotlightJr?

I almost can't believe I'm saying this, but I really think that the bar subculture runs at a higher moral standard than real estate markets.

No I will say it. Real estate agents are some of the most greedy and immoral people I've ever met. But working bars, it's still is kind of a man's word is his word, and it's good. However there's always the implicit understanding that if things aren't working out there will be some changes made.

I'm wondering if there's a regional thing going on here though. Are contracts more common for KJs and clubs in Florida?

Yeah, sold 2 houses in my days. Both times I hired a realitor. Both times ended up selling on my own. The first one tried to pull a fast one. Me as the seller and the buyer were negotiating back and forth. Unfortunately, through the agent. We were $500 apart. We stopped. Then out of the blue the buyer called me. Turned out we had come to the same dollar amount, the agent was trying to skim $500 off the top for himself. I'd known him for many years as sort fo a friend. Not after that. Other sale was a bad deal too. Sorry, no kudos for RE agents here either.
I agree with the bar business, in my short time I can see where a handshake is just as good.

Sorry on the real estate deal but its impossible for an agent to skim the $500.00 off the top as you stated. An agent is prohibited by law to receive any kick-backs, etc with regards to a real estate transaction. This is US wide and not state to state.
The agent is also obligated by law to disclose any and all info regarding buyer and seller including offers and counter offers when acting as a transaction broker. If this happened (which I doubt) you should have went straight to his broker and reported him. By not doing anything your giving him carte-blanche to repeat this non sense.

I have bought and sold 6 houses in the last 17 years. I had excellent luck with my realtors. Of course I live in a very rural area, and if you get a rep for double-dealing you will not last long in the business. I used two realtors for those sales, and never had a complaint. Our realtor died unexpectedly at 52, the same age I was at that time. It was a real loss to our community -- she was beloved.

I also have two good friends who are realtors, and it never occurred to me to question their morals. They are well-respected in the town I used to live in, and have dealt with literally thousands of people.

On the other hand, in my limited dealings with bar owners I haven't found all that high a standard of behavior. But I also have a close friend who owned a bar for 10 years, and I think he is one of the finest men I know.

I think these are all the vagaries of personal experience. I am generally an optimist and try to think the best of people. That is why I live in the sticks -- I am much more likely to be proved right.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I think I like your mindset mcky!! I've met one of everybody in my life with a mixed bag of outcomes. I am quick to trust someone but very hesitant to give them a second chance if they burn me.
You just gotta be careful, right?

Lets get this thread back on the karaoke topic at hand and less on the real estate issues.

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One of the formalitys of contacting a bar for pool tables dart boards jukebox and various other machines is a contract. At one time I was very astute in advising bar owners what to include in the contracts or how to get out of one. Contracts are another source of income for already rich lawyers and are not worth the time or trouble.

I do not need an attorney involved in my business as I deal with everybody on an informal yet fair basis. What I say is what happens and this approach has served me for half a century.

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I like contracts and I understand some here dont. To each his own, right? I have already lost a few gigs because of contracts and I'll probably lose a few more. I've noticed that if its a "chain restaurant or bar" I have little to no problems with contracts. Its the local mom and pop joint that seems most hesitant and I dont blame them given the economic climate.