Karaoke Forums

I agree, but most bad musicians can't get stage time at a bar and get paid for it.

Open mike nights? Sure. A Tuesday night at a 7-day-a-week music club where they're working for the door? Maybe. I've been going to karaoke shows for nearly 20 years and I don't think I've ever been to ONE where there hasn't been at least a handful of singers who sing off-key, can't sing the words in time with the music, etc. It's just one of the things you accept at a karaoke show.


I don't know if you have friends who work there, but I can't agree with your "truth in advertising" assertion. The bar is playing into the popular - and erroneous - misconception that karaoke is to be endured, not enjoyed. I'm going to spend my money at a karaoke bar who suggests "earplugs" for the audience? Sorry, to me it's a bad joke and insulting to singers.


Tovmod, keep in mind that O'Finnegans is a 7-day-a-week karaoke venue. It's their main entertainment offering...why wouldn't they put it front and center on their sign? A couple of weeks ago I did an interview with one of their hosts for my monthly column in a local karaoke magazine. Based on that sign it wasn't surprising when he said, "Sometimes in the middle or toward the end of the show, I break away from the karaoke and go all dancing ... a lot of people like the breakup of the monotony of karaoke songs ..."

Karaoke monotony? Here's one guy who should NEVER be a karaoke host! You are a karaoke host in an all-karaoke bar? You find a way to make the karaoke fun for everyone and encourage participation, not look for ways to break away from the program. For the bar to think that it's positive promotion to suggest that you need earplugs if there's karaoke around doesn't communicate "raw" or "if you don't like it bring earplugs." If I don't like karaoke, why on earth would I go into the bar at all? But I digress.


Really? I've been entertaining in bars for nearly 30 years and I've never seen any bar manager adopt that mindset. Every night stands on its own. Every night is judged by what the register rings. How does having a lackluster karaoke show with no participation and few patrons affect the bar's "reputation" and "long term sales"? All it means is they still have continuing expenses like rent, electricity, labor, insurance, liquor license that is not being amortized on a night where there is no one through the door and few sales.

What I see most often are bars who change their entertainment offerings if what they're doing doesn't work. Nobody in for karaoke night? Now it's pub quiz night! Now it's 80's night with a DJ! Now it's open mike night! All the bar owners I know live very much in the here and now. You're only as good as your last ring.

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Actually, I think there are people who will spend there money at such a place. What the sign does, in a tongue in cheek fashion, is says, "we have a wide variety of singers here, some are good, some are less good, but they all like singing and that's the kind of karaoke we're selling." By doing this, they attract both singers and nonsingers who are just there for a drink and song, be it the good, the bad, or the ugly. This type of audience might have more of a tin ear than other audiences, but they will enjoy the show for what it is. By not raising the expecatations too high, they probably have less people getting up during the middle of a song they don't like or a singer they don't like and going to the next bar down the street. If I were a newbie, I would feel totally welcome at such a place with such a sign, and if I started singing and some guy at the bar digs out his earplugs...well, I can't say I wasn't warned!

Nah, not really arguing...I kept asking him if he knew certain people - I've been in the music biz in this area for years and years and know most of the talent -- he couldn't answer in the affirmative to any of the names; I found that interesting. I'm not sure how it ended up being an hour but kicked myself for using valuable work time. He did investigate hubby's band and had only the best things to say about them. He also commended me on staying in the music biz with all the things we do -- I think he felt kind of like a principalist after the discussion was over - like he'll only play live, only with his midis, or whatever, and he'll be the singer. We have such a diverse approach - live, DJ, KJ, etc. - I think his simple head was kind of spinning. Oh, and he did say I was probably too "good" for what he was doing (in other words, I would expect to be paid )...

One of the things I do tell "musicians' is that having this biz is a great way to keep the chops in shape. They can all relate to that.

You misinterpret what I am saying. The wrong crowd can hurt the other nights of the week a lot. Most bars that do karaoke but not on every night rely on a combination of regulars at the bar and the karaoke crowd.

If the bar is normally favored by business types, a bar may not like it if the Karaoke night brought in a few dozen burly bikers, (or visa versa). Other groups that may be inappropriate to the bar's general direction may hurt overall busness even if they help the take of a single night.

If the regular crowd that is at the bar 5-7 nights a week contains a few people who will not come to karaoke nights no matter what, then the bar will think about canceling karaoke, for fear of losing the regular customers to another bar for the full week.

The karaoke night is also a way of introducing the bar to other people who may become regulars at the bar multiple nights of the week.

Unless you are a total vanilla bar, most bars have a target group that they cater to. Bring in a different personality type on karaoke night, then you are not helping the bar's weekly take, as the bar's reputation among thier bread and butter personality type. If you cater to dancers 6 nights of the week and are a sports bar the 7th, then the bar will not do well at either group.

I know at least some bar owners do take this into account, they look for a target mindset/personality type. They dont just want any person (or group) off the street who will spend money and maybe drive away their regulars.

Sure many bars may not think long term and have a plan, but then again most do go broke.

Really? I know at least two bars that don't like to have any dead nights at all. They strive to have something happening every night of the week so the place is never dead -- it's always a place where you can go and find a litle bit going on. They use karaoke for a couple of those nights -- one Monday, which is probably not that profitable outside of football season, and one Thursday and Sunday. Neither are gangbusters for the place most weeks, though they do have some hits now and then.

Also, have you ever heard the term "spreading the overhead"?

When I drank, there were a couple of places that had the reputation of always having something going on. I always checked them out, even though I didn't always stay. And if it was a Monday or Tuesday, well beggars couldn't be choosers.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I don't know? I am all for it! So what is the answer? Why wouldn't they? Hmm, is this a trick question?




Well, there's a whole debate about how much of the karaoke experience is fun and to whom? I would like to believe it is all for fun. But the following post makes me realize that it isn't always.

However, while I believe that what is described below doesn't happens too often, when it does occur "anything" the kj does to break the monotony is probably better than doing nothing. Or whenever the circumstances are hurting the energy in the room... a KJ must do something!

Lastly, the bottom line IS THE BOTTOM LINE! If the KJ at O'Finnigan's is making the place money, then he/she is doing the right thing for his show and for O'Finnigan's!

We all have our own styles I guess. A bad singer is a bad singer...be it three minutes or six. I wouldn't think of removing THE most popular & requested songs in my book simply because I didn't like them. Granted I do use the edited versions of the long songs when I can find them (5 minutes of Italian Restaurant instead of 7+ for example....no long sax solos.) If someone requests one, I always make a point to remind them that "You know it's really long...and really hard...right?" That is often enough to coax them into something else but if a bachelorette party wants to get up en-masse and do Paradise...go for it.

I have had people do Paradise or American Pie and KILL...the whole bar is singing along and it's THE highlight of the night. Often the closing song.

As for my musician friend, he wouldn't like it if someone sang TWO minute songs badly.

Too each his own....

And we all have our own crowds. Where I am, there are not lots of new faces. If you hear these songs done every week and done badly, it really blows.


That particular bolt of lightning has never hit me....

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I would say without hesitation, Mckyj57, that your many posts regarding those two songs reflect a bias against them that would exist no matter how well they might be sung. And that is your prerogative.

When I have a new singer who requests "American Pie", I let him/her know that they should expect that the audience will be joining them. And if the person still wants to sing it, I encourage the audience to join. And I do so even when no one but requester has begun to sing! And in most cases the audience does join in and that makes the time go by enjoyably!

I have also noticed that if the singer realizes that they are not actually familiar with the song the audience's help getting them through it is appreciated by everyone!

I have the opinion that no song at all is a definite bad song in EVERY karaoke setting or situation. The fact that someone made the song and it got enough airtime to convince someone to make it into karaoke means that someone likes it.

The problem is that some songs certainly are overdone at some places, but the overplayed songs are going to be different everywhere. I doubt many KJs get tired of people singing Moonage daydream by David Bowie but it is certainly overplayed at my venue.

We also all have songs we just dont like. But to take them out of our book because we assume noone else likes them is another thing.

However when the rotations are very long it is sometimes less than fair to sing a 10 miunute song. On the other hand if the rotations are only about 5 singers then it is totally ok.

Thanks for telling me what I think, I wasn't quite sure.

My problem with them is that the percentage of cases where people nail them are in the single digits. I have heard them many times, almost always poorly done. American Pie seems to be a very common choice of first-time singers. It just doesn't turn out well.

As a KJ, I don't suppose I should mind them as they give me a long potty break. But I just haven't seen anything good come of them. I choose not to have them in my show, which I feel is my choice. Can other people have them? Absolutely, you haven't heard me criticizing others for allowing them. I just say what I do.

I just don't like long songs. I think they kill the crowd, and I don't like it when certain singers consistently choose long songs. I feel they are hogging the stage, just like the people who want always to do a solo and a duet in the same round. So I do what I can to stop them stealing time from everyone else. Why should they get twice the amount of stage time as other people? I can't see a reason in the world that they should.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

And thank your for reminding us once again about ALL OF THE REASONS you have for banning those song, not just the fact that they may be done poorly from time to time. Being done poorly as a reason for banning a song would cause most of us to reduce our song catalogs significantly; maybe by 1/2.

But, again, it's your prerogative. Why, however, you keep trying to justify your decision is beyond me?

Perhaps because people keep questioning my motives for doing so? For instance by claiming I am prejudiced against two specific songs, as you did. I don't like any song over 6 minutes as a karaoke song. Someone is taking almost two performances worth of time. If they do three such songs as their selection, they have essentially stolen performances from two people in the process.

If someone does a couple of two-and-a-half minute songs and then a 6-minute one? Who cares. But doing Piano Man followed by Stairway to Heaven followed by Bohemian Rhapsody, as I recently saw someone do? That's intentional. I'm going to stop that if I can.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I posted a few months ago how I shared an afternoon with a live band.
Me hosting Karaoke ..them playing LOUD music.

Yes ..they brought in their posses and the band seemed to look DOWN on some of the singers. But MOST of the singers that day ....were better than the singers in the band and the music was BETTER even with way less power. The band did have some VOLUME and a KICK BUTT drum kit. Other than that
The leadsinger guitar player- played most songs with so much JUNK on his guitar it sounded like CRAP and his screamed most songs. The other guitar playe you couldn't even hear and the FEEDBACK was horrible.

The best was ..AFTER THE BAND PACKED UP and I was closing the show the lead singer asked if he could sing a song that some "GIRL" requested he do .....
I laughed and told him...sorry shows over