Karaoke Forums

Did a gig at a new venue. Sort of a sports café with a full bar, very small. They had me set up in a small area and the booths started just in front of me. This set up made it impossible to set up the speakers anywhere but behind the singers. Because of the width of the space, each speaker was about 2 to 3 feet to my right and left, as high as I could get them, but behind and probably only 4 feet from the singers back. Man, talk about issues.

I got very frustrated with trying to get the sound right. This bar is a drinking bar (and not to karaoke friendly it seems; DJ on Friday and Saturdays, ‘90’s and 2000’s mix, lotta hip-hop… Never any karaoke) and they wanted it loud, and more so as the night went on. Using my AKG’s was out of the question; way too sensitive. I had to go with the Vocopros and this allowed me to get a proper, if a bit muddy, somewhat passable mix.

Finally got to bed at 3 AM and I’m up too early rehashing the situation. Live and learn. Hopefully?

How would you folks had handled this set up? Any help will allow me to come at this type of set up from more angles and options.

Mark

I take it you didn't get one of the most important questions answered when starting an new gig.

Where am I going to be allowed to setup?

If you had known this ahead of time you could have judged better what was needed to put on your show.

I'm also going to assume (yea I know) that your don't have speaker stands for your speakers to get them up and away from your singers.

You might ask the manager if you can reserve the first couple of booths for your needs.

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Hi LW,

No, I did check it out before but they wouldn't budge on the set-up area. I do have stand's and I used them but, the don't bring the bottom of the speaker up much higher than an average height, about 6 feet. The total space they gave me was about 10 feet wide by maybe 6 foot deep... the singers had about 4 feet to stand in... with 40 to 50 people directly in front, 15 to 20 less than 3 to 10 feet from the singer. It's a longer than wider room...

I was toying with the idea to just set up the speakers on the other end of the room, pointing at us, up as high as I could? They would have been about 30 feet away. I saw a guy do this and while he didn't understand the meaning of bass, he didn't have any other issues, as higher volume wasn't needed for that venue....

What kind of set-up might you have gone with?

Mark

The best uni-directional mic is the Shure SM58. When feedback caused by speaker placement is a problem, the SM58 will recue your show. I've used AKG, EV, and other mics. Guitar Center swore the unidirectional EV mic equals SM58's quality, and for $79, it is $20 less than the Shure. He was wrong.
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I suggest you take the time to "ring out" your system when customers are not present, for example, after closing time or before the bar opens if they will allow it. You should be able to find guides on how to do this on The Google, but basically what you need to do is:

* setup like normal with mics on stands where singers typically hold them
* play some backing tracks/music that won't anger the staff, and play it loud
* turn the microphones up until they start to feed back or "ring"
* adjust the EQ on the mics until you can reduce or eliminate the ringing
* turn them up a bit further, and you should hear a different frequency/tone ringing
* repeat a few times until you have "notched" a few of the hottest frequencies, and you can probably improve your "gain before feedback," or how loud you can possibly make the singers, by a significant amount, perhaps as much as 10dB ("twice as loud.")

When I say "adjust the EQ," I mean, whatever EQ you have. Some "frequency response peaks" will be caused by imperfect speakers, imperfect microphones, and of course, the shape of the room and location of the speakers/mics. Remember that if you adjust the main EQ for your speakers, it affects the singers and the music/tracks. If you adjust the channel EQ for the mic, it affects only that singer's mic channel. If you adjust a graphic EQ inserted on a vocal group (a great tool for karaoke) it will affect all mics in that group.

Once you are satisfied with your changes, write them down or make a diagram of the knob / slider positions. Then set your system up the same way each time you work in that venue. If you have a fancy DSP like a DriveRack PA, you can even save a preset for that venue if you use its built-in graphic equalizer.

I hope this helps.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Thx for this. A corded one might be an added benefit for sure.

Thx Jeff, it does. No chance to do it here but I like the set-up for this.

I did buy a sound book recommended on this forum, the one by Yamaha and another highly rated book, off Amazon, used, of course.

Amazing how "easy" it is to set up some venues and how a seemingly similar space is nothing at all like the last one. It's expected of course but, jeez, this venue "seemed" so close to the last one and it rocked very nice thank you?

Thx guys,

Mark

I've known a few KJ's who opted to point their speakers toward the wall, to avoid direct firing of the sound waves into your microphones. Check it out and see if it works for you.

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Karaoke:  Freedom of expression, or cruel and unusual punishment?

And that will sound like total crap.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

We do a gig where the speakers are far away, facing the singer and it works out well.

Some speakers CAN face a wall and sound good but it depends on the room, what the wall is made of, etc.

Perhaps put the speakers in front next time. They will either not sit there or go deaf.

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Kevin

Ha, ha, ha! That's a good plan.

My main show has a small stage area in a narrow room.

The two (permenently mounted) speakers are only about 14' apart and I have to stick a singer in between them.

My main problem is feedback on quiet whispering singers. When I turn up the gain a bit to make it so people can hear the singer, I can get problems.

I can only really make it work by keeping the singer behind the speakers.

At other shows where I can spread out my speakers much more it works a lot better.

Assuming you have only one set of speakers to work with, is just one speaker big enough for this small venue?

I so often find that karaoke people don't consider the reality that you don't always need two speakers, and that sometimes you are actually better off with one.

Oh, and while I don't prefer to use a sub for karaoke, in some instances when I find that there isn't room for two tops I have used one top placed over a sub with much success!

Sounds like my normal Wednedsay and Sunday. My singers stand inbetween both of my mains and subs. I never have any feedback I use SM58, AKG WMS40, Sennheiser G2's and Shure PG58 wireless. It's all about good equipment and proper gain structure.

The place I work is very small and we pack 100+ into it nightly and I'm very very loud. I use 2 18" subs and 12" tops all Turbosound. I RTA the room about once a month just to check any changes. I use a DBX Drive Rack PA and my amps are QSC PLX 3602's