Karaoke Forums

Hello,
I would like to put together a small karaoke setup for home with the following equip. I have on hand:
Small format mixer(Phonic 1202a)
Compressor/Gate (Alesis 3630)
EFX (Alesis Midiverb III)
EQ(ART 341)
AMP( Samson Servo 150)
Kar Player (CAVS 103G)

I need help in putting it all together. Here is what i have in mind.
Mixer Main Outputs (L/R) to EQ to AMP to SPKRS

EFX mono out from mixer to comp/gate to EFX back to EFX RTN of Mixer
Mixer has EFX knob for mic inputs (4 total)

Kar player Stereo out to mixer aux in

Any comments/suggestions is appreciated.

Thanks
Boie2262

All good but use the karaoke player on a mixer channel not the aux in. If you use the aux in you have no eq on the karaoke player.

Mics to Alesis 3630 to mixer via channels 1 & 2.
Player to mixer via stereo channels 7-8.
Effects - run the mixer Aux send 2 to mixer "mono" input.
Outputs of effects to either a stereo channel 5-6 (preffered as you can also eq the effects) or through the stereo return (limited in what you can do).

Mixer main outputs to the eq inputs.
Eq outputs to the amp.

Only thing missing in this equasion is some speakers, if you plan on going through your stereo (I personally do not recommend) then you do not need the amp and actually not the eq either, run from the mixer to your stereo input.

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I used to have the big brother (300 series) of that Samson Servo amp, and it is not really meant as an amp for MAIN cabs. The one I had was TWICE as powerful, and I bridged it to run a single, very small monitor speaker.

The 150 is only putting out 50 watts/channel @ 8 ohms. That will not power any main speakers. Even a typical home theater bookshelf speaker usually rates at 100 watts RMS. A typical PA speaker needs about 50 watts/channel just to run the HF driver. Any respectable woofer is going to require 300+ watts per speaker.

So, in my opinion, you either need a larger amp or some powered speakers for this setup. Even for home use, 50 watts/channel isn't really going to get it done.

Hold onto that amp, though, and use it to power a monitor speaker.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Thanks Lonman. I have a couple of questions re-your comments.


This means a couple of different cables? Mics XLR to 3630's 1/4" phone input then 1/4" out to mixer's XLR . Sorry for being thick here as I am new to this.
Most of these equip came from my daughter's garage band (long disbanded).
Also if I need to add 2 more mics (mixer has 4 total Mic XLR in) it will be run direct to mixer as 3630 has only 2 channels.


OK


I'm afraid I don't understand this. Mixer has 1 AUX out. Also has 1 EFX out. Inputs 5/6,7/8, 9/10 can be used as mono. 11/12/ is EFX RTN, only difference between the other channels is that if used for EFX rtn ,EFX knob has to muted.Not sure what to do here. 9/10


Why not use the mixer EFX RTN?


OK

[/quote]
I have a pr of Bookshelf spkrs(Sony SS-MB350H) connected to the amp.

Thanks
Boie2262

Thanks ly.

Thanks Top. In my reply to Lonman, I noted that I have a pr of bookshelf spkrs.
I'll find out soon once all is connected if both amp and spkrs are enough for what i want to do which is to have karaoke if desired by my kids/visitors.
Boie2262

Correct, this is a 2 channel compressor only. So you will only be able to compress 2 mics total, anything else you'd need another compressor.
As far as connecting it, I forgot that it didn't have XLR connections. It's been a while since i've used it. It's really designed to be used with a channel insert point which your mixer does not have. If you put it on the Aux (EFX) send like you had initially outlined, it isn't going to do a thing to your vocal signal since the Aux send is just a side tap of the main signal - meaning you are still going to get an uncompressed signal anyway. So instead of running the mics to it, lose the compressor entirely as far as compressing vocals are concerned. You could run it on your main outputs but if it's set wrong you could actually do more harm in your sound.



Sorry I meant to say run the Aux (EFX) out to the effects mono input. The mixer actually has two Aux outs - 1 for monitor (MON), 1 for effects (EFX).


Like I stated, running the return to a stereo channel gives you more options/flexibility like being able to eq the effects, send an effect to the monitor, be able to quickly turn up/down. However looking more closely at your mixer (I was tired last night), it isn't going to make a difference either way since the return channels have the exact same adjustments as the stereo channels - no eq on any of them. So yes you can run through the stereo returns.
If your mixer had eq controls on the stereo channel this would be preferred if the channels were not needed for other things.




I have a pr of Bookshelf spkrs(Sony SS-MB350H) connected to the amp.

Thanks
Boie2262[/quote][/quote]
Well, hopefully you are careful and don't push the volume on them, I have watched more home stereo speaker pop with karaoke than I have in almost 30 years of running sound for bands. They really aren't designed for live vocals, but if you don't tunr them up too loud, you should be ok. However if you are like me, then you tend to turn the volumes up and will more than likely decide you'll want a decent set of powered speakers designed for PA use.

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Lonman,
Thanks for all your suggestions/comments. I will spend the next week or so putting this together.
Boie2262

Hello again,
I finished putting the system together today. I ran into a couple of problems most of which I've solved except for one which I'll get to below.

Here is my setup:
Two Mics on Channels 1 and 2 of mixer with the ability to add two more.Got rid of gate/compressor.
Mixer EFX out (1) to Midiverb R channel. LR out back to mixer EFX RTN .
Mixer main outs LR to EQ channels 1 and 2. EQ outs to amp.
CDG player RCA out to mixer channels 9/10.
CDG player vid out to TV.

The main problem that I run into was hum and it was annoying. Swapped cables, borrowed a mixer, isolated equipments , researched on the net where I found the solution which was to disconnect the TV from the wall cable connection. Lo and behold no more hum. Ground isolation issues. Well I learned something new

The problem I can not solve is somewhat related to hum and I suspect that it's because my speakers and my amp do not match (I'm a newbie so this may not make any sense to experts). At low levels, I can not detect the hum, but once I go a little louder, either the CDG player or on the mics, hums starts. Amp level is at 80%, Mics level is at 5 ((10 max), CDG level is also at 5 on the mixer. Mixer faders (LR) are at -30. If I move faders to -20, I can hear the hum. Mic level at 7 , I can hear the hum.

Amp is Samson Servo 150, delivers 75 watts (into 4ohms) of power each side.
Speakers are Sony SS-MB350H. 8 ohms, 120 watts

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Boie2262

Your amp is 50 watts/channel into 8 ohms. You are running them into 8 ohm speakers, so it doesn't matter what the 4 ohm rating is, you have a 8 ohm configuration!

So first thing first, you are underpowering your speakers by almost 60% (feeding 50 watts into a 120 watt speaker). You need a bigger amp, even for those little bookshelf speakers! In the meantime, there is no reason to keep the amp attenuation at 80%, go ahead and crank that up to 100%!!

Now, for your HUM problem. I would almost guarantee you that this is a floor noise problem from one of your components.

You need to read a tutorial on how to BALANCE a PA system. I can tell that the levels you have are all pretty arbitrary. Basically, you set all of the levels based on trial and error based on how it sounded to you. Nothing wrong with that, but the hum you are experiencing is most likely floor noise from whatever the weakest output link in your system is, most likely the karaoke player or maybe even the amp. This is solved by balancing each output component in the system to give it the most headroom you can, which basically will increase the attenuation range (think volume) that every component in the system can produce without amplifying its floor noise.

Here is a really good article on balancing your system, otherwise known as "SETTING GAIN STRUCTURE" in this article:

http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=959

Still, the best thing you could do to improve your system would be to get a respectable amp and matching speakers (or powered speakers).

http://www.audiolines.com/Pro-Audio/Spe ... nger-B212A

What you have is just not designed for what you are trying to use it for!! 50 watt speakers are the kind you would use for your computer, not for a PA application!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

TopherM,
You are right about my equipments, they are "FOUND" items that I was going to get rid off but decided to embark on this project. Talk about biting off more than I can chew
The IN/OUT of the equip.s runs the gamut, RCA's, XLR's, TRS/TS, so this could be an issue too.

Regarding the amp/spkrs , I will be using this (if I can get this to work) in a 10x11 room, so maybe buying (used )spkrs that will match the amp that I have will work or vice versa?

Looks like I'll be doing a lot of reading/research to study balancing the system and I will use your link as a jumping point .

Thank you for your help.

Boie2262

Here is a great link for newbies and non techie persons like myself about matching amp/spkrs. I found it in TopherM initial link above.

http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... _POWER.pdf

Boie2262

Boie, you have some really good equipment there, and have everything you need to have a really top-notch home karaoke setup EXCEPT you need some powered speakers (or a new amp and new passive speakers, but powered would be more ideal in your situation).

You should be able to pick up a pair of good powered speakers off craigslist or ebay for $300-500 used.

Stick to brands like Behringer, Yamaha, Electro-Voice (EV), JBL, Mackie, Peavey, QSC, RCF, Samson.

Don't buy anything more than 3-5 years old. Condition is everything. If it looks beat up, then it has been used hard. Just like buying a car, if it is clean inside and out, then chances are it was well maintained and used properly.

Finally, when you go to buy something, make sure to demo it first. Bring your own music or have the owner play music through it with lots of dynamic range (something with high highs and low lows....modern hip-hop or jazz/blues music works well). As long as the speaker sounds clean at low volumes and at high volumes, then the internal components are in good shape.

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL