Karaoke Forums

You're really in a tough spot. Unfortunately, as you say, you need the gig.
However, unless you put your foot down, those "neat folks" will continue to abuse you.
I can see in my crystal ball that they will eventually try to force you into a cut in pay, even if they are raking it in.
If they know you need the gig, and they know there is someone waiting in the wings to replace you, they will use that to manipulate you just like they are doing now.
There is no way I would work in those circumstances, regardless of how badly I needed the gig. I respect myself and my job enough to tell them "no" and walk away, if need be.
If they pay for a set number of hours, that is what I play. Come shut down time, I shut down. I will NOT pass the hat. It's unprofessional, no matter how you do it.
If you do it for a set amount per song, you will ALWAYS have pissed off singers.
I once had someone do this, but they approached me AFTER they had confirmed they were able to get enough for me to stay an extra hour. I made it clear that I would not favour anyone over another, meaning those who had not paid were going to get songs equally with those who had.I also made it clear that we had to get permission from the bartenders first.
I generally do not like to do this because I prefer to go home when I'm done. I'm tired and have a child to get up with in the morning!
As for how to handle the owner in your situation, if you've already been passing the hat, as someone else suggested, the bar owners may raise their eyebrows that you are not continuing to do so. Just haul them aside before you start for the night, and make it crystal clear to them that you will no longer pass the hat as it has made you very uncomfortable, is not part of the services you provide, and you will no longer do it. Then just shut it down when your time is up. If the singers ask, refer them back to the bar owner. Under no circumstances, should you allow the singers to voluntarily pass the hat. If they do approach you, tell them you will not stay. Otherwise, it will defeat the whole purpose of what you're doing, which is to get the bar owners to take responsibility for paying you for your services. It really is THEIR job! That's the only way those "neat folks" will get it.

Over in the UK, we never do tips (I do get brought a drink occasionally... which when I'm working tends to be water ).


I personally couldn't pass a "hat" it feels like begging but then my culture is different but I'm not against the "pay to play" idea... because your regulars still get their three hour "fair" fix. . . . before it was implemented I would however check several things in you area. How long is the average show in your area, would you "pay for play" lose out to another show in the area which runs for four hours using a fair rotation. Is the area quite affluent? Do rotations tend to be quite long.

If the answers are on the right lines, then I would advertise it like mad. Regulars then have the choice and can leave if it isn't for them, and then you can "take advantage" of the drunken enthusiasts with holes in their pockets.

I would also consider the idea of starting later and finishing later but only doing the three hours agreed.

It's tough when you need the work, and whilst some KJ's won't work against their principles, sometimes in the real world, with bills and families to support, you have to make a compromise.

If the owners are "neat", I would chat to them about your fears about passing the pitcher and image it may create for the venue and your show... they may come up with a better system.

Lets face it we're only worth our fee if the bar is making money. Leave it to the register to determine if you continue on. Find out what the milestones are for the owners and have the manager ring out the numbers. If you're making the bar money they'll have you stay.

I get a kicker from my venue when sales hit certain plateaus. I'm only paid until 1:00, bar closes at 2:00, if it looks like I'm going to make my kicker staying there makes sense. If I made my first level by 1:00 already, sticking around for #2 seems like a smart move.

If you're not making money why stay and why would the bar want you to?

I've been in that situation several times in the past.. new owners/new management seem to always want to cut overhead just as soon as they take over.

Assuming these folks have some bar management experience under their belt, they know that $50 an hour is top dollar for that market, and that's probably exactly what they're thinking when negotiating with you.

If it were me, i'd say, "Hey.. you're guaranteeing me a weekly Wednesday slot, tell you what.. lets just split the difference and call it a 4 hour show for $175."

That's still close to $44 an hour, and everybody is happy.. and you don't have to come across like a pan handler to your patrons at midnight passing the proverbial hat.

But i'd give them a few weeks to get a feel for how the Wednesday night sales are going. Let them see first hand what kind of numbers they're doing. Always better to negotiate when both parties know the numbers.

Put out the tip jar and it shouldn't be hard to get that other $25 or more out of a crowd over the course of a four hour show without you ever having to say a word about it on the mic.

Slow economy, rural area, and you mentioned you need the money.

I wouldn't ever say anything like, "The bar only pays me till 12.. so if you want me to stay, you better fork over some cash or tell the bar management to start paying me more!"

That's just tacky.