Karaoke Forums

This is part 2 of a topic that I started last week that deals with pay for the KJ.

To refresh, I was complaining about how my Saturday night bar is trying to pay me less than our agreed to amount. Everyone said no way will they let a bar dictate what they pay me. That is how I felt, but I guess I wanted some reassurance that it was how I was supposed to feel.

Part 2: The bar was packed tonight. It seemed like every singer that has ever shown up there all made it out. Great for the bar, but of course, I had a lot of good customers that were like "When am I going to sing again?". So, I wanted to go a little longer so I could get through my last rotation. You would think that a KJ that is willing to go a little longer to appease the mutual customers would be welcome - as long as it did not go past (or even close to) the legal ending time.

I am paid for a 9:30 - 1:30 show. The clocks are already set 15 minutes fast. In Michigan, bars may serve until 2AM, but customers must vacate the premises by 2:30AM. So, you would think that the bar would WANT to serve until about 1:45-1:50 real time (or about 2AM bar time) if business was hopping. But, that is not so with this bar.

I completely respect a bar owner or manager's right to dictate what time they will close. I wouldn't care if it hadn't been for the fact that they tell me they are closing down an hour early and I am only getting 75% of my pay. And by the way, we are not talking about some big restaurant with a great big staff of people that they have to pay. On those slow nights, they only have 1 person on duty. Even the busy nights is only 2. They regularly kick out 15 people because "it is not busy enough to stay open". The customers head down the street to the other bar where they are happily served until the very last legal moment.

So, tonight, I was told to "cut the music no later than 1:30AM". They started at 1AM (bar time) closing tabs and doing last call. The customers were trying to bribe me to keep going, but I told them I was under strict orders to be done by 1:30. At the time I closed, I had 14 singers still active and there were three times that in the bar drinking.

So, I while I was wrapping up my system, they turned the jukebox on. I was like "wtf?" I could have let 4 more people sing.

So, I left and went down to the bar down the street for REAL last call. I found 20 of my customers were there, having been shut out of "my" bar.

My issue is why do they tell me what they are going to pay me on slow nights, but when things are busy, they kick people out and literally turn away 45 minutes of brisk business. I could have made a lot of brownie points with these customers had I been able to get the last few singers in. I mean, if things are so good that they can turn away that kind of business, why are they f'ing me on pay?

Thanks for letting me vent. I'd love to hear some comments.

Not everyone.
Sounds like they have more money than business sense.
They don't sound like the sort of people who would be intimidated by you making it busy.
Be careful. Don't trust or rely on them.

First of all,,,,,,, did the owner/manager offer you extra pay for the large till?

2nd of all, maybe the switch from karaoke to jukebox is their way of softening up the crowd and winding them down to prepare for exit. Or maybe they just aren't very good business people.

Sounds like you need to sit down with your boss and discuss everything you are bringing up here.

It is the bar's business if they want to turn away money, business, grow a business. If you are uncomfortable with the direction/way they handle their business and you have communicated directly with the boss in a professional manner regarding this, at that point you either have to live with it or try to find something that fits your needs/wants.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Maybe you need to approach the bar that you went to for a Real Last Call to see about doing Karaoke there.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Some bars like to be able to have everyone out at a certain time. Ours we have to shut down at 1:30 (Fri & Sat - 1 on weeknights) and do last call at 1:30 with everyone being out the door ten to 2. I worked other bars with the same type of rules, then some that asked me to work until 2. Your bar scenerio doesn't surprise me in the least.
Still wouldn't work there on the simple fact they wanted to cut your pay on a slow night.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I don't know how tight things are around your area, but I'd make sure I had something else before dumping them. Also if karaoke is new for them, they might not understand the view from your shoes.......communicate.....

Remember, they just don't lock up and leave with the last customers.

Coolers generally have to be stocked, tables cleaned, nights glasses need to be washed, floors vacuumed, register Z'd out, deposit prepared, trash taken out, etc.

Stopping the music at 1:30am, and calling last call at that time.. gives you time to get your gear packed up, clears out the karaoke singers, and gives the 'till the last minute' drinkers their last drink and time to finish it off. Bar can start pre close procedures, and be on track for lights out and locking the door as close to 3am as possible.

The closer to 2:30 it gets, the drunker people tend to get.. and whenever you have lots of drunk people early in the AM, the possibility of trouble increases dramatically. Not a good formula for an understaffed weeknight club with no doorman/security on duty.

Bar time is often 10 to 15 minutes fast. Last call called at 2am bar time, and the barkeep is running around taking beers out of patrons hands at 2:30am bar time shouting 'Drink 'em up.. let's go!" and still having a half dozen people standing around bullshitting at quarter till 3 bar time.

Just because the bar is full of people doesn't mean they're making money. I've seen more than one bar get slamming busy around 12:30, but the people just weren't drinking.

The true measure of a successful night in a club is not the number of seats filled, but the number on the tape when you Z out the register at the end of the night.

TroyVnd27,

Okay, here's what I do:

First: Find out from the bar what time they want you to end... this is the "standard time" that you've agreed on (1:30) right? If they want to shut down early, I would announce that on the mic... that way, I'm not the "bad guy" here...

Second: The club knows that if I set up my equipment and turn it on.... it's a flat rate whether or not someone walks in the door or not. Whether they make a huge amount of money or not, MY obligation(s) do not change either way and neither should theirs when it comes to getting paid. I'm always working to make them money, not just sitting there like flypaper.

And I am not a taxi meter that dispenses karaoke by the hour... unless they wouldn't mind if I walked in their bar, drank half a beer and only paid them for the part I "used." They can't sell the other half and you certainly can't make up the difference at midnight by going somewhere else to work.

When a club wants to "meter" me, I tell them that's fine and that this will be the last night as well.

I've had something similar happen. The Bartender closed down because she's also a teacher in the morning, so she wanted to catch an extra 30 minutes of z's. Owner was irate.
I've talked about the situation with other bar owners and the consensus is that you have to be consistent. If customer's are out on the town and they're asking themselves if that karaoke bar is open, and the answer is "Who knows"? They may just save themselves the trouble and go elsewhere.
I know a certain bar that's open until 2 no matter what, no guessing, that's where I go.

As for closing time there are a lot of factors. My main bar was pretty lenient on the matter (karaoke going to regularly 2:15-2:30 beyond the official 2:00 close). Recently the laws have changed and apparently now the bar should be empty by about 2:15, so now the local bars cut music sooner than previously. Apparently some local bars have been given citations and word gets around.

Another bar that I work at regularly, is very firm on the 2:00 closing (even before the change in law enforcement). In that bar the bartenders who are just paid by the hour set the closing time and are not too eager to keep things going for a bit longer. The actual owner is rarely there around closing time.

If I were you, I would ask for a KJ job at the bar down the street.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Getting confused on all the "closing time" comments including the opening post.

In Iowa, (Illinois the same way but an hour later at most places) The bar must be closed by 2:00 AM for business. Period. They don't have to stop serving 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes early. It's up to the bars to decide when to quit serving as long as there is no alcohol being consumed or out on the counter or in the patrons part of the bar (not counting behind the bar) at 2. Most have the clocks set ahead 15 minutes, pretty much standard everywhere it appears.

So show around here are usually 9 to 1. If I'm not working in the morning, I often tell the bartender/manager/owner that I can play to 1:30 if they like. I've never been turned down. They usually call last call at 20 to 25 minutes before legal closing time and I'm always done by then.

IF the place is slow, yeah they will close a few minutes early. I could see someone just saying the hell with it and closing up a couple hours early, however if the KH was scheduled to get x amount of dollars, that is what should be paid. I would be miffed if they tried to stiff me like that!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Thanks everyone. In the State of Michigan, you may serve until 2AM, and your patrons have until 2:30AM to drink their last drinks and vacate the premises. My issue that night was "why are you closing people out and doing last call at 1AM when you have an hour of bar time left? If you can afford to turn away your customers and send them to the competition, why can't you afford to pay me our agreed upon rate EVERY night?"

I had 4 singers that were among MANY that were either bugging me about when they were singing next or begging me to keep going. All I wanted to do was finish my last rotation so the last 4 singers could sing - at no additional charge to the bar - just to "make friends". They couldn't understand, and nor could I, why they started the closing process with one hour of legal service time.

I have had it with this place. I am working on finding something else right now.

It is up to the bar and the staff when it comes to hours of operation, however with me the money stays the same. I agree with CStaley's comments on this completely.

I don't run a karaoke by the hour type of operation and my business has fixed expenses. I would not let them bully you into this type of arrangement.

I wonder if the property owner which leases the property to them would agree to be paid less when the bar fails to draw enough customers for that given month?

What about the provisioners...sales are down so we are only going to pay you 75% of what we owe you for your goods and services.

Whenever you start a gig this is one of those things you need to get out in the open up front. If you don't do it up front, you will have to nip it in the bud immediately when they try to do it the first time. Be firm give them a couple of justification scenarios and don't back down. A deal is a deal.

Anyone who asks you to discount on the bad nights should then be ready to fork over more when they have a really good night.

If you feel confident that you have profitable nights then you may want to be compensated on a % of the overall bar tape for the evening that way you are going to be properly compensated for your efforts. Most owners will not go for this type of arrangement as they know that overall they come out ahead with karaoke.

A flat fee regardless of business has always served me well and I do not deviate from it. I have always been able to draw a decent crowd but it is really up to the bar to get folks to come into the bar. I merely enhance the attendance with some of my regulars that follow me.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Not completely on line with this thread but similar.
A friend of mine just got a new gig a few miles from our show and he works getting 10% of bar take. They have had karaoke for years but the old host pretty much never updated selections (from what patrons have told me they had maybe 2500 songs all dated pre-2000), worked with blown speakers, and played favorites so the reputation for karaoke there is pretty much shot.
His first night was last Monday (6 days minus Wed), he said the bar closed early every night but Fri & Sat in which he made $118 & $120 those nights, otherwise he said with them closing early (about 11-11:30) he's making LESS than $20 per night. He said he made $2 (TWO) dollars tonight. They don't do any advertising sadly and expect him to do that. Plus the inconsistency of not remaining open to build a crowd is going to kill them. He said the bar had 4 calls while he was shutting everything down to see if they were still open for karaoke, the bar said no.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

WOW...that sucks! Beating an expired equine.

My Friday night gig is on a percentage of bar take. I do ok tho,as I have a guaranteed minimum. Some small bars feel they have to do this.....the first guy on Saturday nights (when the pub first opened) was getting paid £150GBP and singing to himself all night....I regularly suppass that now working on a percentage

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After 12 years full time KJing, I can offer that there are all types of bar management, and if you as the KJ dont agree with their policies, first, it is their bar...and you can explain to them that you have a suggestion, and they are free to implement it or ignore it. All you can do is to do as you are asked, and if it makes you unhappy, dont argue, look elsewhere for management with a similar mindset. I agree, what is good for the bar is good for me, so if a bar wants to shoot itself in the foot, it will not reflect well on me.