Karaoke Forums

Offered the 2nd gig. Haven't answered yet. Offer was upped to 2 nights a week including one night that is already taken by my current gig. I agreed to play tonight with answer coming soon.

Meanwhile, owner #1 calls and says that if I take the Wednesday gig at the other bar, he will find another host for Thursdays. His philosophy---unique entertainers that people won't see at other bars. For the most parts his bands are from out of town. His new Friday DJs don't play elswhere that I know of.

He didn't know when he called that I had been offered a 2 night deal. He is not able to take me on Wednesday financialy so I can't get the 2 night (less set up, tear down, transport) gig there.

Lots of factors to think about at this point but what's your thoughts so far?

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

My thoughts here is this: If a bar owner requires you to be "exclusive" to his bar, then I would find work elsewhere. That limits tha amount of income you can obtain from him. However, if he just doesn't want you to work at a competitors venue, I can fully understand. I never host at competing bars, just for integrity sake I suppose.

Is this other club a competitor of his? Then I would probably be loyal to the first, unless he is just trying to be controlling. Then I would see how things went with the second club. This business is all about taking care of your venues first, your customers second, and you third. Just my opinion.

Dude,

I run two nights (with an optional 3rd) a week at a place that I can store my equipment. I'm offered gigs from the other bars in town all the time ... for the same money I'm making at my home gig. Other owners don't get the work involved in packing/unpacking, playing, packing/unpacking. When I tell anyone that my gig price is $50 more for that effort they usually balk - but that doesn't keep 'em from trying.

I have it cush, being able to leave my stuff at my home location. It'd be better If I could leave it set up, but hey, can't always have it all.

You have to weigh your loyalty to the current location, convenience, crowd, and personal needs on this one.

I can appreciate that, but if he's asking for exclusivity at a non-exclusive price, that's another story. You can go back to Owner #1 and tell him if he'll sign a 1 year contract at a rate that's double what he's paying you now, you'll be exclusive to his venue. If he wants to limit your appearances and limit your income potential, he'll have to make up for that. It's a little different with out-of-town bands...they can play in one town one weekend, and another town the next. KJs don't have the luxury of "touring" their shows.

That leaves you with Owner #2 who is giving you 2 nights a week. Is he going to put that in a signed contract? For you to leave your established venue without one, I think is foolish.

Something else that's foolish? Leaving your gear in a bar! Did you know if it gets stolen or damaged that the bar's insurance DOES NOT COVER YOU! Insurance policies only cover property that is owned by the policy holder. And I doubt the bar is going to pay extra for a rider that will cover your gear while it's on their premises.

Even if I'm doing back-to-back shows, I would have serious reservations about leaving my gear unless it's in a locked closet.

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Thanks guys. All things have been thinking about. Just want to hear others opinions. Love to hear some more.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I service 4 bars/nightclubs 11 nights weekly and would never agree to work for one place exclusively. If you are sub contract labor, you are nothing but a vendor to the owner. If they wanted me as a employee, I would want a full time job with decent salary and benefits, not too many places are willing to do that. Like mr scott said, one place limits your income. The DJ/KJ biz is what do for a living so I have to work multiple locations.

Rip, Owner #1 doesn't sound like somebody I'd work for.If you decide to leave, do so on good terms as the door may open back up if the new host doesn't work out.

Mojo

WOW... 11 nights weekly. You must be really tired by the time the weekend comes.

And I thought I had some long days!!! wheeeew,,,,lol

ok ok ok...ya got me. MY COMPANY services 4 bars/nightclubs 11 nights a week. I'm lucky to have some good DJ's & KJs on my team. Personally, I only DJ/KJ 1 or 2 nights a week.

Mojo

The main issue I see here(from my limited experience) is - what if the second gig doesn't pan out? You could be without any gigs and have burned the bridge with owner #1(no matter how diplomatically you approach this).

You've got to look at this and decide but - if the first owner doesn't want you to work anywhere else, then that'll be a problem down the road. But the second owner could not work out. Personally business IS about taking calculated risks. I would take the second owner's offer but attempt to not burn bridges, maybe explain you have to take it due to financial reasons but if it doesn't work out he'll have the first chance to take you on again.

I was thinking the same thing. If you take the second gig, and irritate the first owner, you are going to be in bad shape. I sort of have the same situation in my regular gig so I know what you are describing can be a difficult choice. When I first started my main gig about 5 years ago, I had never done karaoke, except as a singer, and I kind of got thrown into it. I live at the beach, and I work in an area where all the bars are competing, so to speak. I wasn't offered any other gigs at first, so I had never really thought to ask the owner how she felt about that situation. One night, I did get an offer. I didn't want to take it, because I didn't like the place that was asking, but I thought the extra money might would be nice. (I wasn't making nearly what I should have been...my own inexperience at pricing and expenses. You live and learn ) Anyway, the bar owner told me she didn't want to "share" me with anyone else. The customers love to hear me sing and if we don't have a singing crowd, I can carry a show myself as the entertainer. She said she couldn't help it, but she wanted to keep me for herself. Lucky for me, she works me enough nights that it's worth it. However, she was fine about it when I took gigs that weren't right in her doorstep. If she had expressed concern about it, I would have explained that I need the money, and I would have simply offered her the night they were offering. If she didn't want to work me, then it would be in my family's best interest that I make the money elsewhere. That's the choice I would give the owner #1.

And you have to consider the stability of the show you are already working. If the show seems like a survivor, definately don't do anything that would jeopardize that. From what I hear here from other KJs, good shows that last are hard to find.

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

All good points, most I had taken into consideration but nice to hear those concerns backed up. What about some of the other long time members of this forum?

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

The variables that come to my mind are -

How are your feelings about the owner of gig #2? Do you feel confident he'll keep 2 nights?

Do you feel confident the bar can support 2 nights of karaoke on a long term basis?

To me it would boil down to how much I trusted that the second gig was a sure thing. I wouldn't want to take the chance of losing a permanent gig for something that may not last.

Has gig #2 had karaoke before? Does he go through a lot of KJs? Does he have any entertainment other than karaoke that he's used on a continuous basis? Is it a new business or owner? or an established one? Would you have an agreement for any length of time?

Before I'd give up an established gig I'd want to be sure the next jump is as permanent.

I'm not saying some risk isn't worth it. I just would hate for the new guy to hire you for a month and then say see ya.

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I was assuming the new gig is paying you the same amount of money a night. Yeah?

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No matter what the "exclusive" bar owner says, if you take the other job, he won't be hiring you down the road, unless you are the only KJ alive.

I can understand his concern about the competition. But those singers that go to your other show could also follow you to his bar.

Do you tell any of your singers to stay away from his bar? It's stupid. He is trying to limit your income for his personal gain. How does that help you?

Take the other gig and screw him. He's going to screw you.

There were lots of factors to think about. Ease of set up, transport, more money, getting my business name out there to others, another night of short sleep hours, money and of course others.

In the end, I had a couple of reliable sources help me dig up the fact the 2nd venue had pulled their liquor license application (current license set to expire in a month) and they have a balloon payment due in a few weeks and it doesn't look like it will be paid. I also know for a fact that they are looking to sell. Multiple owners and backers in this establishment and in my conversations with several of them separately, I don't believe they are all on board with each other's thoughts and don't even know each other's thoughts. That didn't give me warm and fuzzy thoughts.

Putting two and two together =4. $2000 for a license. My belief is that they knew they couldn't or most LIKELY couldn't make the payment so they pulled their application to save the $2000. Did the person that made me the offer know all this (considering muliple owners)? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he was just looking to make all the profit he could during the last few weeks.



Minimum damage for bar #2, one month or more without a liquor license (can't wait until several weeks before expiration and expect to get a new one just like that) and the maximum is that this place will be shut down for good soon. Also who knows, possible my gear could be locked up inside and I won't be able to get it for months or longer. My decision was easy to make after this.

Current owner re explained his philosophy to me. If the 2nd bar would have been any other bar or restaurant but the one that offerecd, he wouldn't have cared. During the smoke free violation suspension that the 2nd bar just came off of a few weeks ago, (violation happened during former owner's tenure) a lot of that bar's regulars came to bar #1 and it was the only time the owners have had to deal with trouble. They (2nd bar) have a reputation of trouble. That sentence isn't all that subjective. Google the bar name in, look at the blogs in the local newspaper and lots of blogs come up cutting down the establishment. Bad rep in town.

Why did I even consider the offer pre-knowing this trouble issue? New owners and when I visited, they had 4 security people. Trust me, I've been to clubs and bars many many times over the years. For the size of this club, 4 was almost overkill, that gave me the impression they wanted to change, reminded me of the PS movie Roadhouse kind of. So that made me feel comfortable. Plus the owner, bartenders, security and everyone were very very friendly to me. Also I saw no signs of trouble.
Owners of bar #1 didn't want to see some of the regular patrons from bar #2 follow me to their bar and start causing trouble or damaging the reputation. When explained to me in that manner, I agreed and won't do any more gigs at bar #2.

Always look for the good in a situation (glass half full) It was a good experience for me and I found out that I am getting a good reputation around these parts and owner has agreed to let me take on someone to do the last couple hours of my show when I want so I can go home and get a couple extra hours sleep before getting up at 4 to work the next day.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Ripman, finding out the facts on both places was the right thing to do. You did your homework, made an informed decision, and I think it was the correct one too. It doesn't sound like your current bar owner is an unreasonable person, he is just looking out for the best interest of ALL concerned, his bar, his customers and even you. NICE JOB!!!!

Wow Rip

It just shows how a little digging is worth it. I'm glad you found all this out before you made decision.

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Ripman,

do you have a 2nd system? If so ... could YOU book another KJ in there ... you take a weekly part of the fee for booking him/her into the 2nd place ?

Jason
Acclaim Productions

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Jason Christopher
Want To Learn How To Grow An Outrageously Profitable KJ Business And Put An Iron Cage Around Your Customers? visit my web site below..

Very bare boned. Basically just to ensure if something dies in my main set up, I can keep the party going. Wouldn't use it at this time at a bar, no interface, no conditone, no rack to house components (laptop and mixer) or hide the cords.

I am going to use it in a couple weeks for a teen party at the library because the party is the same day as my regular gig and I will need to be set up beforehand at my regular gig as the libary gig ends one hour before my regular gig starts.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]