Karaoke Forums

Art is expression and beit 1968 or 2008 "Vulgar" to somebody someplace perceiving the artform whether visual, music, prose, existed, more-so during past liberal phases, because today is somewhat more conservative, certain things would stand out as "vulgar" that did not certain places years back.  Degree of vulgarity is just a matter of INDIVIDUAL preference or distain given a persons own feelings.  I disagree that things are more "explicit" today.  Plenty was explicit 40 years ago. (@$%&#!), (@$%&#!), and other expletives existed in  music..  To those performing it, it was cool.. To those that didn't wish to hear it, it was vulgar.. Right or wrong is all contingent on whom and where...

Some of what was happening on stage in the very early 70's was VILE.  I mean absolutely nauseatingly disgusting !  You likely wouldn't want to imagine what happened in some bars during a "gross out" rebel period !  but even that depended on location..  and I'm told it was worse in the 60's..  NOTHING I've heard or seen today compares to that liberal period of pop culture..(long before the AIDS scare, date-rape laws, alcohol laws, during a time people were intoxicated and "tripping" LONG before the early-mid 80's and by that time things were becoming more conservative anyway) there was little sexually that wasn't said, and done in public in over 18 years of age or adult venues..  "**** her gently" perhaps seems brash because things have become more conservative...  Few of us would've even noticed it as a lyrical phrase that stood out in 1972.  Some of our parents wouldn't either.. The grandparents would've xit a brick, to THEM much of our stuff was vulgar ! I couldn't believe it around 1972 when those slightly older were naked, and passing joints over their babies highchair in rooms full of smoke and explicit behaviour..  To me that's vulgar.. Today that'd be considered a bad-dream a person might have..  To some "Hippies", that was just a breakfast ritual.... some did weird stuff !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve,

You still want to ignore the obvious.  There are people who are offended by such as I've described.  Why should they be, just for someone to sing in a public venue?  If people want to see Elvis thrust his hips and pay to do so, they were welcome to do so.  If people want to see a vile Broadway show, so be it.

Are you putting karaoke, performed in a public venue, in the same category as paid for entertainment?

And, surely, you are saying, as so many others, have that Karaoke is such an art form that it doesn't matter whose offended.

Elvis may have swung his hips(to the ladies delight) but I never heard him call any of them a (@$%&#!) in any of his songs like todays wonderful music, ( Oh excuse me I meant Art).

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Man Must Know His Limitations -Clint Eastwood

How many times should I retype "Types of individuals, The Times, Their Ages, Location, Types of public venue" ?   You are missing the obvious,  there are MANY types of people and types of adult "public venues", are we talking about church, or adult entry age required where alcohol is served ?  You are generalizing.  You can not !  Some would never have been offended, others always were !  Throughout history !




I already answered this.  I explained what went on in certain public venues years back, venues where there was no cover charge, no  advertised pornographic display, just the occassional animal behaviour between humans that'd make somebody blush watching two dogs going at it in their backyard... Assuming the venue was 18+, you didn't even give this stuff a second thought in many places; Vulgar lyrics always existed, and during the "free love" era, and the days of Sex, Drugs and R&R it was FAR FAR more vulgar yet it wouldn't leave an impression that'd cause this type discussion to ensue because "It just was" in some places.  Many exposed to such wanton behaviour just went to the bar to have a drink, or play pool  !  Nothing has changed except the times, our ages, in some cases, locations some have never lived in so there's no means for comparison, yet there are quite a few not participating in this discussion that think we are just being old fuddy duddy's like their parents.

Are you going to tell me this song "**** her gently" today will get airplay on most commercial FM stations, Conan O'Brian, Leno, and many public TV stations ?  I think not !

This stuff is NOTHING new.  I don't understand what I am missing. Some are offended, others think we are old prudes at bars that can go to Barnes and Nobel or Starbucks or Church instead and kiss our Holy Rosaries.

Some story, older folks describing it !  Heck,  some in the Hip Hop circles might say, "Dat be a message of duh human condishun between two indivijwal of consent'n ages 'n Sheeeit yo, wether it be said or not, it still be, cracka's be too uptight and sterile,it be the birds n bee's, n we lern dat sheeeit back in nursry schoo"

Personally,  I find hacks butchering up a classic rock song I love FAR more offensive if it's loud !!!  I'm not a KJ though.. I don't consider karaoke entertainment for those that don't enjoy it..  Not all in bars that have it, do like it !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

NOW you're comparing apples and oranges. That kind of language wasn't even thought of during Elvis' time. NOBODY did it, except underground movements.

Again,  Time and place.. Elvis would've been NOTHING in a bar where folks were doing FAR FAR worse in those days..  Yet "**** her gently" even today wouldn't appear on "The Ed Sullivan Show" assuming he still existed today, nor will you hear it on FM radio stations around where I live ~  It's CENSORED !!!... You won't see it on Letterman or Leno today..


This is contingent on type of venue, ages, location... I won't say it again... what is this the tenth time ?   Things were VERY VERY liberal in the late 60's and early 70's, and MUCH was explicit, yet in some more puritanical mid-western or rural locations this wasn't the case of course, and old folks were cringing at our explicit lyrics !!... You are trying to generalize something from the perspective of middle-aged folks in a certain socioeconomic class but this is no microcosm of perhaps the hip hop teen...
Vulgar ALWAYS existed ! "explicit" always existed to some while others stepped over it while eating a sandwich

"Dirty" depends (is what I'm stating), and years back you recall concerns about lyrics regarding "Suicide is painless", and music being a driving force to violence and teen deaths ?  Loads of sexually explicit things too IN SOME BARS..  These has always been, and will always be something that gets under the skin of some... Most of todays music I find vulgar,  I also find a lot of the music I liked 30 years ago "Vulgar" and the way we dressed, danced.  Lust was lust...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hack comedians in the late 80's around here were at times wannabe Andrew Dice Clay types,  because to some (the guy who received a "Lifetime Ban" 20 years ago for his explicit and vulgar lyrics) that stuff was "cool"..

The "Prince of Porn" got plenty of air-play in some college circuits.. Valby was crass and vulgar, and had us rolling on the floor when we were half our current age. I'm not going to judge todays music without remembering where I came from, that wouldn't be fair



What's new about explicit ?  Andrew Dice Clay ?  you folks forget ?


Side note:  Valby got his BA from Middlebury College in Philosophy..
That was one of the most competitive schools in my day..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That's funny.  I was at this old juke joint in Downtown Nashville (Tootsies?) one New Years Eve and the band threatened to play "Rocky Top" until someone threw some cash in the tip jar.  I think they played all of ten seconds before someone dropped a 20 in.  

Lets face it, a bar aint a church.  When you walk into a bar, you pretty much know people aren't going to mind their language like they do at the dinner table.  Its like people who complain about songs on TV and the radio.  They haven't been able to figure out how to work the remote or dial to change channels.  They'd rather ruin it for everyone and remove music they deem 'evil' or 'nasty' or 'sinful' or 'dirty', etc.

WELL stated Eric...

Elvis, the Doors, Rolling Stones etc, were banned because they were afraid to lose the commercial sponsorship.  MONEY.... INCOME   Not because ELVIS the PELVIS shook it too much.

There was a group of politicians in Washington DC that thought the new 50s rock n roll music would cause all the Black people to begin rioting.   They wanted to BAN it altogether.  To save America.  Can't have people rioting, it causes to much MONEY lose.

Brown Eyed Girl.  They changed MAKING LOVE IN THE GREEN GRASS BEHIND THE STADIUM...to laughing and a running.    That was before "making love" was an acceptable terminology.  Afraid the sponsers would object and the public would turn off the radio.    MONEY

Every TV and radio network has a Censorship person or group.  They decide maybe with the help of lawyers what is publically acceptable.  To offend no one, to maintain the community standard and to keep the sponsors from dropping them  I.E. Howard Stern & Imus in the Morning.  It is very much based on MONEY.  They want to keep getting it.

Should a bar owner worry about the language spouted out in the bar???   Depends on the type of crowd you want to be labeled with and attract.   Me personally, i would rather attract the responsible adult crowd.  Also from a liability standpoint.    

Everyone involved in this converstation can name the bars they will not go to.

Start thinking about your reasons for staying away from them. Who or what is there or what is going on, to make you decide to stay away?  This should answer the debate.