Karaoke Forums

Excellent, and exactly what I do, and why I have multi-plex discs. A filler song, yes, but keeping the focus on karaoke with on screen lyrics.

BTW- I have another reason for an occasional Ugly ( I call any non-karaoke tracks "Ugly Music"). Since the illegal smoking ban was passed in NJ, it gives smokers a quick time out to enjoy.

Again, this would only happen in short rotations- no filler once it hits strength.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'm in total agreement with knightshow and jamkaraoke.

1. We're talking about having ONLY 3 singers the whole night and plenty of other people at the same venue.

2. I never suggested playing 30 minutes DJ Sets. Just one or maybe two songs at the end of the rotation and then start over. So you still get to sing a lot more, then on any regular Karaoke night.

3. If I have my crowd, they would actually appreciate that little break in between, so they don't have to constantly move back and forth between stage and table and get some time to eat, drink and converse.

4. I never agreed more with you knightshow. If I would have a singer like Bruce at my show, same thing... Don't let the door hit you on your way out! I for sure couldn't care less and wouldn't want to deal with singers like Bruce anyway. Karaoke is about having a fun, good time, NOT about the "Prima Donnas" that can't wait their turn or think, everyone has to hear them sing. I think Bruce would be better of becoming a solo performer than visiting Karaoke Shows.

PS. By the way Bruce...

a) ...are you always going alone to Karaoke? Maybe you should start to socialize and get a life.

b) ...I listened to your recorded songs at the Singer Show Case and I can tell you, I wouldn't want to hear you back to back, over and over again. Not, that they would be really bad, but not really great either and they for sure would become monotonous to me with that voice.

And I really mean that rather as an advice (a) and an eye (and mind) opener (b) then as an offense.

Now a valid reason to play filler music is to appease the smokers???? They can't go outside while the monotonous 3 singers are singing??? Sounds more like an excuse for the KJ to go out for a cigarette break by putting on a few UGLY songs in a row.

There are plenty of shows that don't play ANY filler music. All I am doing is defending AND SUPPORTING that type of show.

As far as what's the big deal about "one lousy song"???? It's just LOUSY. I'd rather hear one of us lousy singers sing that lousy song. I might get to sing more often at that show than at the show down the street that has more singers but I don't feel like that KJ is trying to waste my time by playing filler music. It isn't about the amount of songs I sing. It's about hearing people singing karaoke. I can listen to the radio at home if I want to hear canned music and save a lot of money in the process.

At the start of the show, if there are few singers we ask them if they're ready to go or listen to some music (discs with vocal) As soon as one says yes, karaoke starts and continues to the end, no filler. A night like that maybe will occur a handful of times a year (playing 6 nights a week). We carry absolutely zero (0) DJ music.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I love it when it gets to the point where people have to resort to calling singers diva's and prima donna's. I have no problem whatsoever waiting for my turn. I just don't appreciate the KJ creating an invisible person called filler to take up a spot in the rotation that delays EVERYONE from singing AGAIN. I'm not saying that any KJ can't do things THEIR way. I'm just saying that I have a PREFERENCE for the way that Lonnie does his show in this situation.

The next insult is that I need to learn how to socialize and get a life. I thought that going OUT to karaoke was socializing and I have made friends at all of the karaoke venues that I frequent. I am a single adult who does go out solo most of the time but I don't see how that means that I have no life. I have children and a grand child that I enjoy spending time with a great deal. My son and I often go out to karaoke together and my grandson loves when I sing to him. My daughter frequently asks me to learn songs that she would like to hear me sing. My life is quite full for me. Maybe I'm just easily satisfied with my simple life. I also enjoy spending some time online. I thought this forum was a place where people could post their opinions freely but it is amazing how quickly people get the nose out of joint when someone posts an opinion that differs from theirs. Once again, if filler music works for you and your shows are successful, I'M HAPPY FOR YOU. If you are running a show that only attracts 3 singers, the filler music MIGHT be the reason that SOME singers are avoiding the show or aren't coming back after experiencing the filler music on their first visit. If there were no filler music, maybe those three singers would have each brought a couple of singing friends the next week and there would be 9 singers. Instead, maybe those three singers went to a different bar the following week and then you had NO singers and you could play all of the filler music you heart desires. Singers attract other singers, even if we're not that good at singing.

First you tell me that I should become a solo performer and then you put down my singing. You are certainly entitled to your opinion on my singing. Everyone has different tastes in music. I don't consider myself as a great singer. If I did, I would probably want to become a soloist where I would get to sing as much as I wanted to. I don't think that I should get to sing based on my talent level. I think I should get to sing because it is MY TURN, not MR FILLER's turn. Mister FILLER is not there. He doesn't deserve a turn. MISTER FILLER isn't spending ANY MONEY.

And don't worry about me. The door will not be hitting me any time soon. I vote with my feet. That is my perogative. I get to choose where I spend my money. It is not an indictment of any KJ, as a person, when I leave their show. I just don't like it. Filler music will always be a waste of time, in my opinion. That's just the way it is. You don't have to like it and I'm not forcing you to change the way you do things. If it works for you and your customers, I'm happy for you. It just doesn't work for me, so why does that make me someone to be insulted by you? "with THAT voice" .

Come on. Let's hear your voice. If it's good, I'll say so. Ask Matt. Him and I have often been at odds but I think he's a good singer. I would rather hear his wife sing a song than hear the one lousy song of filler music. It isn't about me. It's about a karaoke show catering to the people that they NEED to keep their show alive. I don't let my personal opinions of people influence my opinions of their singing.

Bruce,

I love this. What is your point? What it your purpose of reiterating, ad nauseam the same thoughts? Just vote with your feet, as you suggested you could, and be done with the subject.

And nobody said you were wrong in your opinion Bruce. The people coming back at you are those who tired of your criticism of how they choose to run their shows. Don't you get it? You're the critical one! But not just once, but over and over and over.

By the way, how many karaoke shows have you hosted on a regular basis, so far?

You know that old American Indian adage about walking in someone elses moccasins for awhile?

actually, I'm inferring he's wrong... and providing examples why.

Bob is so centered on the fact I'd play a filler tune, that he doesn't see the forest for the trees in front of it! heheheh

He's got this issue with filler... I would NEVER play it during a busy night, but yeah, to keep the same three people from being a broken record... yep, I'd throw in a video or some mix music.

as for playing a karaoke tune with vocals... I've done that a fwe times. I've always felt it was just better to play an original tune that's not out on karaoke.

I WILL ADMIT I've played a couple of the "Original Karaoke" tunes just to get the nostalgia in... you're getting the best of both worlds. the original artist and lyrics to boot! !

If you know your crowd and your singers, you know what flies. That mainly happens at a show that is established, though.

I will be honest, I never really have been challenged with this problem at a bar gig as I have never had a rotation with that few singers. I have had it happen at benefit shows, but a couple of rounds of two or three singers usually gets people sticking in their slips.

I have had three singers at my service club on a Tuesday, and we just continue. Of course all three are the type of singers that have a zillion songs to do and won't run out of ideas. I will admit it is a bit different there, as I am the equivalent of the owner and no one is giving me any guff about it. It is just the way it is.

As a singer and customer, if I get to sing several times per hour, I never have any complaints. If I am told "we are waiting for more singers to arrive before we start" I just leave. If it gets to more than 3 DJ songs in a row with singers waiting, I leave as well. I didn't come for a DJ show, and my choice is to leave. If the show succeeds, more power to it. But it will do it without me. No shows like that stick around here, they close within a couple of months.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

("tongue in cheek")

Shame on you Ollie:

You're making money for the venue

You're providing entertainment for the town

And..... you're providing a place for karaoke singers to enjoy themselves... if they don't mind waiting for dance and filler music!

Now... I can't figure out what the real difference is for a karaoke singer if he goes to a venue packed with singers and only gets to sing 1 or 2x during the course of the evening, or if he goes somewhere that plays filler and dance music and also gets to sing 2x during the course of the same evening?

Is the problem perceived by the disgruntled person the working of their "greedy mind" that sees an opportunity at the latter venue to, theoretically, sing more frequently than at the former described venue and begrudges the fact that he doesn't in fact get to do so?

And from my experience, the place with the filler music and few(er) singers will actually provide a greater opportunity to sing for those who are patient than the venue packed with singers!

1) Yup. Smokers usually eat and drink more than non-smokers, while they are inside not smoking. It's an oral thing. ( which I'm sure will be debated ad nauseum- don't care- they are still customers) I wish to keep ALL the patrons happy.


2) And almost many of the karaoke Hosts here, including myself, have posted several times that they only play filler in a short rotation, not a full one. That's what this thread is about.


I have never heard you sing. Everybody likes something different, so you may be so-so or you may be absolutely terrific. But even terrific wears very thin over several hours. Remember, we are still talking about amateurs, not pros. Since everyone DOES like something different, that means SOME of the non-singers may love to hear you continuously, but most will not.



"No Contests, No DIVAS, Just A Good Time!"

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Tongue nowhere near my cheek ;c)

Why is it that you can post in this thread as often as you like but I'm supposed to post my opinion once and then not respond to people who directly respond to one of my posts? Am I supposed to concede to defeat by not responding to attacks on my opinions???? I don't think that will ever happen.

I don't have to run a show to know what kind of show I prefer to go to; just like I don't have to work at Burger King or McDonalds to know which one makes a better burger. If Lonnie runs a show with no filler music, ever, and you run a show with filler music, I would spend my money at Lonnie's show regardless of how many times I would get to sing. I don't mind waiting an hour and half to sing a song as long as I'm getting to hear other people singing in the mean time. I don't go to a karaoke bar to hear the jukebox play and that is what filler music is to me. To me it's the same as the KJ saying I'm gonna shut off the karaoke for 10 or 15 minutes because I want to go outside and have a cigarette. I don't mind going to a busy show with a long rotation where I might only get to sing 2 or 3 times in the entire evening, especially if they have a pool table. I enjoy listening to the other singers sing. IMHO filler music is just delaying the show. You are free to disagree without me insulting you or your singing. I would go to the kinds of shows provided by Lonnie, Timberlea, and MCKY before I would go to a show where the host feels it's necessary to put the "game" on pause every now and again. I am not a water sipper by any stretch of the imagination. If you don't want me at your show because I don't like filler music, not a problem. There is usually a place that does karaoke the way I like it. If there weren't, I'd be stuck going to places that play filler music.

Like I wrote before, I had no intention to "insult" you. My statement was in reply to your above quote.

After reading it, I thought well alright, let's see what he sounds like and I am just not impressed, that's all. And with your statement, that you never had a person saying that... well, I am so frank and tell you. It's just my opinion, not more or less.

Bruce

You are definitely tenacious.

And while you continue to ignore that no one has disagreed with what you prefer when you go out to a show, you have hurled personal criticisms about others as well as circumstances contrived by you regarding me, including that: I am bored with karaoke; I look down on singers; it's my fault that I have too many non-spending customers, a statement that bears no relationship to the reality of my show(s) and is based solely upon a creation of your mind!

So, while you are the one attacking others and their opinions, where did anyone tell you that your point of view doesn't work for you? Simply, you been informed by working KJ's that your point of view often is impractical for some of us when we have to deal with the reality of limited participation. And we would like you to respect our judgment on how we have to run our shows for the benefit of everyone --- not for the benefit of one tenacious person who just wont give it up on what they prefer.

And regarding your analogy about Mcdonalds


I don't frequent either. If for no other reason than the fact that I like my burger medium rare. So while you're so busy telling professionals how to run their business, why don't you take up a more significant crusade and more wide-spread problem? Beseech the burger chains to accommodate people, like myself, who prefer medium and medium rare burgers.

They're clearly loosing tons of money, more than all KJ's combined, by ignoring people like me. Folks like myself really don't like the fact that to get the burger we prefer we have to pay a lot more money and get out of the car to purchase it. Why not help with this more serious error in an established business model used by two very successful businesses? I believe I am correct in what I desire in spite of their successful model!

Lastly, in which post did anybody criticize your clear preference regarding filler music when you attend a karaoke show?

Personally, I prefer White Castle burgers, but I know what I expect to receive whenever I go to any burger joint and I accept the final product with no questions about it. When I go to a karaoke bar, I expect to get nothing but karaoke from the "Karaoke Host". When I get filler music, I am not happy about it. It would be like ordering some hamburgers and taking the food home in a bag and finding out that I had cheeseburgers instead, which I don't like.


OKAY. In my entire life, now one person has called my singing monotonous. Somehow, I'll be able to survive that. Can't please everyone.

Judging of what you said, I would say---what a b%itch!

Bruce,

So that's it. You have very high expectations and refuse to accept anything less. You have decided that if things aren't exactly the way you want it that you will have a "bad time" even if you could find a way to enjoy yourself.

Have you considered that aside from the draw of singing, that you could hang around and see who you might meet? Perhaps some people you already are acquainted with might show up. I can't tell you have many nice people I have run into on occasions when I wasn't enjoying myself, at which point the evening took a turn for the better. In spite of prior disappointment, an evening can take on a whole new dimension and, even, direction if one is receptive!

Using a little psycho-babble, why don't you give yourself permission to enjoy any format used by a karaoke host? If after giving it a try, with a positive outlook, you don't like the show, go home and don't return!

It's like eating out. People don't go back to restaurants they don't like, usually. And when I run into food I don't like, I don't try to re-educate the cook. I leave and don't go back. But while I'm there, I will do my best to make the best of it (which I don't always succeed at).

BTW: this is my last post to this thread, so I will use this opportunity to stress that your views/theories about karaoke, Bruce, may not serve you well! If nothing else, you jumped to too many unfounded conclusions about my shows and me as a host. Go back to the thread that discussed two hosts singing in every rotation of a show. There you will find that I am one of the few hosts who believe that, ideally, a host shouldn't even sing once during a show - not even for a sound check. Now what reasons can you think of, Bruce, for my holding that opinion. The main one is that if there are plenty of singers, which is not always the case, the KJ's job is to maximize how many times each gets to sing. And if my staying out of the rotation provides 3 extra singing turns, that's what the customers are there for.

But, if there aren't "enough" singers, than I usually am STUCK singing. Why do I sing? To lengthen the rotation and keep the energy level as high as I can. Not every singer is a great singer; not every singer is enjoyed by the audience. I have experienced good singers that no one enjoyed because of their choice of material.

Bottom Line: I have to establish the model I will use when there is an "insufficient" number of singers. And that is based upon the venue and the available singers. It's my call!

No but you DID infer that by me playing filler, the serious singers like yourself might end up leaving, and I would soon be out of a job because I'd be DJin'.
You're entitled to your opinion, but until you've actually ran a show yourself, I don't think you're in any real position to say that I'll soon be out of a job.

Again, let's not loose the basis of WHY I'd play filler... three singers and the kj. Two-fers and the fact I'd play ONE filler tune to help break the phonograph-skipping issue of the same four voices. And no, I wouldn't play a filler tune for ONE person - it's usually for the whole group of non-singers.

You speak as if the non-singers CAN sing the tunes they want to hear. Many people realize either they can't sing, or just don't want to subject themselves to what the braver souls are doing. But that doesn't mean their spending power is any less than you wonderous singers! And on slower rotations, yeah, I'm going to appeal to larger aspect...

because this is a BUSINESS.

Again I say what is the difference between hearing the same three voices at karaoke as to one voice with a band (and definitely doesn't mean the band singer can even sing)? To me once the karaoke starts, it's karaoke all night. As the host in a small rotation you can sing the upbeat songs, if the others aren't.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Disagree, if you advertise karaoke, then keep it karaoke. The only bad thing that might come of it is singer might get wind & start coming in because they know it's singing only. Again if it isn't always karaoke, just put a simple blurb in the advertising with dj reference - pretty simple. I go to karaoke clubs to sing, not listen to regular music. If you must fill or dj with something, get the multiplex versions & PLAY the karaoke disc with the words on the screen as well.

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I've now read through so many posts on this topic that I don't recall for certain but I got the idea from the original post that the 3 singer night was not the norm. I think that has a lot do do with how one would handle the situation.

I think we could all probably agree that if a 3 singer night was the norm it would be a sign that we're doing something wrong.

I'm trying to look at this both as a KJ and as a consumer. Of the two I believe that where there is a conflict the nod goes to the cosumer. In the end he's the one who is paying the bills even if on the odd night there aren't enough consumers to pay the bills. If there are only three singers, let them sing. They probably didn't come to hear a DJ.

I agree with Lonnie; (I think this is what you said) if a show is advertised as karaoke it's probably a good idea to have zero DJ sets. If it's billed as both I don't see a problem because anyone who read the promo knows it's both.

As a consumer, when I go to a show I expect to sing and to hear others sing. I went to a show a few years ago that was billed as karaoke but the KJ considered himself a DJ as well. After each singer he would play a song. The people I went with, who were also singers, weren't crazy about that but we lived with it . . . until the rotation began to fill up. Then the fillers just became delays for the singers. Gradually the singers began filtering out because they weren't getting an opportunity to do what they came to the show to do.

I'm not a DJ. I'll admit it's a personal bias with me. I just don't like DJ shows. As far as I know there's nothing wrong with DJ shows, but they are not my preference. The people who come to my shows, both the singers and non-singers, know that there won't be a DJ show. They know there will be karaoke and only karaoke. And it will be that way whether there is 1 singer or 25 singers. So sometimes, if there aren't many people in the rotation, I sing quite a bit. Most of the time I sing at the beginning and at the end. Either way, the customers seem to enjoy what's going on and they come back. I think that's what we're all striving for.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by the area that I live in. I haven't seen the kinds of situations that many of you have described. Nobody seems to mind if there are just a few singers and they all sing 10 or 15 songs. Nobody seems to mind if a person who doesn't sing well steps up to the mic more often than the KJ would like.

I regularly attend a Friday night show when I'm not working. There is a regular there who loves to sing but sings off-key most of the time. This is a place where the crowd is about evenly divided between singers and non-singers. Everyone is unfailingly polite. Every singer gets applause; even the guy who sings off-key. I think the reason is that this is a comfortable well-managed place. People feel at ease there and first-time visitors have a tendency to become regulars. The key is that everyone is there to have a good time. They don't let one lousy singer in the rotation spoil that. Part of it might be that the non-singers have a tendency to say, "There but for the grace of God go I" and they applaud the guy who has the guts to get up and do something they wouldn't do.

This show isn't the exception. I've seen the same thing happen at quite a number of shows I've attended. Maybe the harsh winters here in Wisconsin make everyone around here just a bit more mellow.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"