Karaoke Forums

If a bar isn't making a profit, maybe it's time to get out of that business.  Nothing wrong with helping a friend, but after four months there should be a vast increase of patrons and the bar should start paying.  As a rule entertainment should cost a bar about 20% of net sales. Of course if they don't have to pay for entertainment that's more money in their pocket of the work of others.

BTW if you go to a "free clinic", it may be free to use, but someone is picking up the bill and you can bet the staff are being paid.  People think we have free medical care in Canada.  We don't.  We pay a hell of a lot of taxes to pay for it and most people still have to pay for medical and/or dental plans.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Ok the bar averaged 8-10 people in it (non karaoke night) including the DJ. It was slower than usual. Say that was the average for 5 hours. Two drinks patron/hour.

Total 80 drinks in the night. Say average 1$ profit per drink at those prices (some mixed drinks etc). Total $80 to pay rent, electricity, various licenses (including Ascap, Beverage etc).

Tell me where the DJ gets paid out of that situation...

Sure the bar is about that busy only 3 nights a week, about 4x as busy once a week (my karaoke show) and 8x as busy on friday/saturday (law closes bars in Ga on sunday). Bar earns on average $2-3k on an average week after paying for the drinks. After rent, electricity, insurance etc, I doubt the owner averages $50 a night.
Bartenders are working mainly for tips. I doubt the owner makes more than $30-50k a year for his troubles and doing all of the paperwork and risk. No jukebox, bar too small for pool tables, video poker not legal here. Drinks are 100% it. (When there is a cover charge it all goes to the band).

I happen to know that a major reason the bar can stay open is that the person owning the building rents it as a favor to a friend for far below the market rate (he is also a regular at the bar).

But hey he is the rich capitalist bar owner that is oppressing the entertainment. Lets all gather torches and go burn down his house.

Rise up oppressed KJs let's loot (or at least smash and burn). THEY are the bar owners and they are bad.

No we are not a poverty hell-hole, but most locals don't need to drive a lexus or bmw that is under 2 years old like happens to be the case in many overpriced areas. The patrons are not drowning the worries on the mortgage of their million dollar homes over $12 mixed drinks. I will continue to live here and not get an ulcer. I like it. We may not have as much cash floating around as in California, but their is a lot more social capital invested here.

Everyone in the county works for free and they can not figure out why nobody has any money???  

Catch 22 everyone is broke because they work for free.  They work for free because everyone is broke.  LMAO

All bars and restaurants are taking a hit from the economic down turn.  There is less money to drink and eat out.  But nobody works for free and survives.

It's an impossibility.   Maybe i'll do free karaoke at the local soup kitchen.  Should draw a nice crowd of non paying people.   I'll be able to do it forever.

Sure they make a profit but it is not a big enough one to make me green with envy. Personally I think they deserve more of a profit. And yes I have built the number of people going to my show, so that it now has about 25-30 in the bar at midnight, compared to about 5-6 on nights with no entertainment. I get double the attendance of my first month regularly now. Already I average a bit more attendance than the previous KJ who built up his show over 3 years.

It makes me happy. That makes it much better than my day job that pays well but gives me an ulcer.

I am not helping my bartender friend as much as my other singer friends.

What the He.. was that all about? I didn't say that. or imply it.

The point is When you are the draw You should receive compensation. I have had jobs in the past I hated. I don't do that work anymore. Anything can be a hobby, or a job. It is all in how you pursue it.

You play Karaoke in Bars. We have people that do that in some of the bars here.  we don't call tham Kj's. We call them customers. What they do when they patronize a bar , who cares.  But you started out saying that you live in a town of 100,000 that has 100 bands. Most of which work for little of nothing....... BS...........

I don't think you are going to convert to many real Kj's into playing in bars for free, unless it is to get a really big deal.

I Do some free Shows in Nursing homes, and crippled Childrens homes around the area, But That is a totally different story than Giving free entertainment  to an establishment that is Profitting from the draw I create.

If you are comfortable with what you do more power to you, But I'll Bet the Local Kj's Despise your Butt....

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Ok, folks. Here is the warning on the back of one of my CDG's. I'm sure you all have read it. Right?

Warning: Use Of This Pre-recorded Material Contained Herein In Any Manner For The Reproduction Of Recordings For Sale,Rental, Or Distribution Without The Prior Written Consent Of The Copyright Owner Of The Rights Therein Is A Violation Of The U.S. Copyright Law And Is Strictly Prohibited. Unauthorized Public Performance, Rental, Or Broadcast Transmission In Part Or In Whole Is Strictly Prohibited. All Rghts Reserved.

Maybe the "rich capitalist bar owner" could pay you?

K

Yep and once again I ask you to show a court case that has taken a computer operator that purchases all of their music per computer?  You will not find one to date.  This is not what they are after, they want true pirates that sell pre-loaded drives with 100K songs, or the multi rigging companies or the downloaders.
Never said it wasn't illegal, said I as a computer operator that purchases my discs to transfer is in absolutely no way affecting you or your business as I still charge a decent price, albeit no longer in clubs, I work private parties now...that's where the money is.  I was driven out of clubs by truly illegal computers that didn't pay a dime for any legitimate disc or had maybe one set & multirigged them out over several systems.  You should be focusing on those types of users and shut up about the ones that actually support the karaoke community by BUYING the discs they use.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Again if they aren't making a decent profit on their business, they should probably get out of it...unless of course owning & running a bar is their HOBBY!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Everyone has their own version of what is a decent profit. Sure our town is not as rich as many other places in the USA.

It is such a nice town a lot of people like to live here even if the profit/salary is not as big as in a rich town. So many people want to live here that local wages are low, I could easily move and double my salary.

Most people in the planet get by on far less than $30k a year should they all "quit" and find a better job?

I lived in California and knew a lot of unhappy people earning 100k a year, and moved here and met a lot of happy people earning 25k a year.

Travel around the world a bit, and you will realize that while on a monitary basis the US standard of living is 10x better than many countries, but the people in those countries have more money invested in their social networks and more time is spent working outside the market. Im not saying that one way is better than the other, but Americans are not 10 times better off than someone living in some place like Russia, Panama or Turkey (places I have visited) that have about 1/10th the per capita gnp. Sure most people live better in the USA but 10 times better, I would have to say no. The difference is the work done outside the market.  

PS I know about the nursing home industry and what the people pay to live in them. Nusing homes can make a lot more money than bars. More people go into the nursing homes that have good entertainment services (if someone is looking out for them), so you are doing something to make the nursing home owners rich for free. The average cost of living in a nursing home is $200 a day per resident, many nursing homes are for profit.


No most of them like me. I was a singer for years before I became a KJ. Several of them come up to me and shake my hand whenever I come to their show, something that they dont do for most of their singers.

Boy you're really on a rampage about the poor computer users! If you were just targetting people who didn't pay for their stuff, I'd ignore your tripe... but since you want to paint ALL computer users with the same broad brush, here goes!

First sentence... kjs don't Sell, Rent, or distribute their cdgs by putting them on the computer. 2nd sentence. Keyword "UNAUTHORIZED" - it's covered by your ASCAP/BMI license the bar pays.

That's a standard disclaimer. It's also in front of every DVD you'd purchase before the movie starts. It's also in front of most tv broadcasts!

What does THAT have to do with when someone buys a cdg and puts it on the computer?

Nobody is harmed therein. Now granted, it's NOT allowed by law, but even BC, the Sound Choice Studio Manager, openly admitted that he PERSONALLY saw nothing wrong with that in a past thread over at their forum, but also admitted that it's not his place (not in HIS POWER) to say it IS allowed.

Why do you people keep feeding the trolls? Let them crawl back under the bridge where they came from.

TTowntenor,

NOTHING too personal, but you're getting pretty desperate dude. I'm sure dozens of other mature, intelligent and UN-emotionally charged KJs have been following this thread throughout and are entertained by it like myself.

LOGIC always wins in the end, NOT sarcasm.

Good idea to reread ALL OF Dr. Fred's posts...but THIS time read between the lines, get the real information he provides, and R-E-S-P-O-N-D, not REACT with emotions or bad humor. It shows you are losing the battle of wits, in my humble but experienced opinion.- no offense, but DOC deserves respect. He makes a lot of valid points and presents them professionally. Reread and i'm sure you'll agree.

...and this isn't just directed to you only. There's 'another' resisting Doc's well thought out and well written logic. It appears money, frustration, and desperation is the cause of the information not getting through 100%.
...Just an opinion.  J.R.

I have a suggestion for Dr. Fred. I understand at the one place doing it for free based on your explanation, but anywhere else, charge a decent, reasonable amount and give the money to a worthy charity since you don't want or need the money. This way you don't cheapen the service for those people in your area trying to make an honest living.

I agree.

But i think he only wants to play at the one place he likes- he already has a full time career.

Why some others here try to make Doc the poster-child for single-handedly dropping karaoke show rates and professionalism is at best, silly. It sounds like without Doc, His bar might not be there anymore, and a few people(bartenders/servers/managers/owners) would be out of a job that may support their families. The business establishment comes FIRST- we are just entertainment, like it or not. No bars/restaurants= no karaoke- honest or not.    :yes:

...some selfish people put the needs of ONE family (kjs) over the needs of MANY (bar staff).....rethink that logic.

I can see doing a show or 2 for free to get going or to help the bar out in the beginning, but i'm sorry keeping it free is stupid and it does in fact help to drive prices down that karaoke companies can make.
If the bar is in that bad of shape that his free nights are the only thing keeping it alive, then why not run karaoke every night & not have any dead nights?

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

At the very least!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

No i'm not singling him out as the lone, but it is kj's that do it nothing or next to nothing in general that has taken a lucrative business into a cheap form of drunken entertainment.  Karaoke has no class anymore like it did 10+ years ago.



Again if the bar is in that bad of shape, i'd be looking at the bar in general, staff, drinks...why aren't people coming in without karaoke, do they have dart boards, run tournies (these are HUGE around here), Texas Hold-em nights (another huge draw here).  Maybe advertise the place, get a website for promotions & events/specials, have special drink nights with free giveaways (liquor/beer distributors usually will give promo prizes to the clubs).  There is no reason a bar needs to struggle as it is being described, even with karaoke and not be able to afford to pay for it!



What about the kj's and companies being put out of jobs by peole doing for free or next to nothing so all these companies are now out of business?  Yes MANY GOOD companies around here have totally went under as the clubs don't pay anymore because they can get someone doing it for $100 or less!  But yeah i'm selfishly thinking of only one  :no:

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

You just don't get it, do you guys?

If you are charging, you are a professional. That entails a contract of assoclated responsibility -- in several ways. I could easily charge for gigs -- I have been offered two weekly gigs since Christmas, uninvited. People have come to some functions I have done my karaoke show at, and then asked me where I do it regularly, just assuming I was a regular host. I have had several try and hire me for a party. So it appears that to some people I look professional.

But if I accepted money for gigs, then it would not be nearly so easy for me to say no. I am not in the business of doing karaoke, but I do it for fun.

You're right, I don't get it. Don't charge, I really don't care. Whatever gets you through the day. If you enjoy doing it and don't need or want the money, that's your personal thing. I would love to be in that position, but I'm not, so I'll be charging as much as I can get. I plan to give the very best show that I am capable of in exchange. The end.