Karaoke Forums

My smallest venue is taking £800 a night and my biggest is over £2500.
Where is the problem?
Maybe we Brits do drink more than the rest of the world put together but we know how to have a good time and we also know whose job is whose!
If a bar is going out of business it will be for a lot more reasons than the DJ/KJ not doing his job right!
A good KJ can increase the take of a well run bar! We have no chance whatsoever if we have to stock up, clean the bloody place and do everybody else's job as well!
I still suspect that some of the people offering their opinions on this topic have more than a vested interest in the bar trade and are not solely KJs.
I do my job well! The proof of that is the fact that I am still in business!
I want for nothing more than to do my job as well as I can without doing everyone else's!
If water drinkers are causing any of you such a problem then go and work for the water companies and give us a break!
I do not wish to run someone's bar for them, I merely wish to attract enough customers to my employers' venues so that THEY can sell them beer!
If this is not enough on this subject then I simply don't know what is!
Bar owners should get their own site!

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Imagine!

Water Drinkers... WHEW!
Strapin' two dead horses and a chicken together to see if they will run any faster -

I agree with everyone on this! Why? EVERY venue is unique. to all that have lost shows from this, I'm sorry. To all that this is a non-issue, Hats Off and Cheers!!

But, consider this, Like Debra, Knightshow, and others, who are respected pros, have stated... this is a business, a service business to be exact. To insure continued sucessful business requires above all else, COMMUNICATION!!

As a business person, I have learned (the hard way) to look for ways to establish & maintain rapport. The subject of "water drinkers" can be such a tool. - Talk to the owner/manager about it at an off time, (not when their Aunt Millie, a water drinker, is up singing Bicycle Built For Two) You may find a unique perspective, or not.... In any case, establishing a rapport with your business associate (i.e. owner/manager) is absolutely essential!

This has helped me when discussing tougher issues, like how much extra I'm going to be paid for doubling as a bouncer, or if I should just sing "What a Wonderful World - the Great Louie Armstrong" during the brawl.... not kidding, I've done both.

Respectfully,
Dave

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http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kalter ... /my_photos

well said dave

and you know, I've never had to charge for my services as a bouncer... it's only come up a couple of times...

to me, it's always been part of being that cog!

Hey Folks...

I looked at how many pages this frivilous debate has gone on...
I have said it before and I'm going to say it again... The Bar has a license to sell alcohol and beverages and they also have water too.. if they take thier it's up to them if they take thier water out and stop serving it, it's up to them... if they run off my singers I leave then THEY DID IT. If I chase them off Intentionally then I'm the bad boy. So SUE ME, or fire me.. but the bar is in the bar business... I don't tell the customers how to or what to drink. I'm in the Entertainment business as a KJ/DJ/sound engineer/musician. the bar has no right to run or tell my singers what to sing, or how to run my shows. Believe it or not it's in my contracts.
Until the Day that a bar buys ALL of My Equipment from ME and my partners, (which will NEVER happen) they have no final say in how I do things until my contract expires without a lawsuit. and the buy outs are ugly. I have seen too many bars RUIN Karaoke. PROTECT YOUR SHOWS!!!

FRIVOLOUS??

No, it's a debate. With some of us, it's a situation we have to face. Others are more lucky.

Two years ago, yeah, I didn't have to worry about it. Nowadays, with the competition so fierce in this city, yes, you have to look at every angle. We had a fight in the bar last night. And it killed the energy. Many people left afterwards. Finally got the place going again, and we went back to having fun!

If it's "frivolous" to you, then don't participate. If people didn't want to talk about it, this thread and topic would die a timely death here at karaokescene!

Knight...
You are an Entertainment Professional.. you should be able to pick and chose where you do business wisely and package your show competitively & attractive enough to be able to name a comfy profit to you. and handle ANY crisis that comes with ease or with out a panic.

I can't see why this topic has so many people upset.. unless it's the bar owners who are so AMATUER.. ??? it costs hundresd of thousands to get a bar license in most states. You'd think most would have it wired..

I think every bar owner has to go to Karaoke Operators school. to understand why we do what we do. I already hold a Tennessee Alcohol & Bartender's Certificate. so I do see it from both sides.. but This is a case of "Seperate But Equal!" We Pay You to bring in your customers... your customers are a captive audience that can't bring in anything to dring but MAY purchace anyhting from us to eat or drink.. we live in a free society.. they may NOT be forced to do anything... LAWSUIT anyone? Constitutionality??? look it up? i would like to own a club ya know.... !!!

Another rant....

Brian D.

I will say one more time from the soapbox on this
subject as I am passionate about this issue that
afflicts so many KJ's who are adversely affected by
those who want it for free. Yes, I am a professional
which means I do this for a living, like many of my
bretheren KJ's.

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Brian for the person working in this industry night
after night in clubs as a KJ it is not frivolous, to a
singer outside who is not dependent on keeping a
bottom line of paying customers it is oblivious as to
it's seriousness. I can see why you do not have a
concept of what we face. Words are cheap, the fact
is that this IS an issue that can weigh heavily on
most shows and the clubs that hire their services.
I am fortunate that it is NOT a problem, but I will
not allow it to be an issue. My livelihood is made
with karaoke. It IS my day job!

Water drinkers are almost tantamount to shoplifters.
If enough do it DOES affect the bottom line. Ask any
retailer. I don't sell product I sell service. Not paying
is almost like stealing from me as it puts no money in
the coffers and so indirectly takes from me and my
paying customers. Why have I been successfully doing
this for over seven years now? It is because I run a
BUSINESS, not a baby sitting service, or therapy, or
something to stroke my ego. Don't get me wrong I
love what I do, I work hard to excel, and entertain,
make people happy, but my first job is to turn a profit.
I have been raising 2 children on my money along
with my husband's retirement monies which are maybe
1/4 to 1/3 of my earnings, not nearly enough for a
family of 4. I work hard for my money so I do not
take kindly to those who would freeload, nor do my
venues.

Quote:

Knight...
You are an Entertainment Professional.. you should be able to pick and chose where you do business wisely and package your show competitively & attractive enough to be able to name a comfy profit to you. and handle ANY crisis that comes with ease or with out a panic

Believe me Brian, I've so many times on this particular issue, it's not funny. I've had SO many people come up and say, 'Why aren't you somewhere else more nights?" "Geez, you got a terrific selection... why are you here?"...

It's the industry here! I'm TELLin' ya!

The only solution I have is to go into the bar business myself. I used to be a bar manager. So I'll gravitate to owner. Trouble is, I'll be so busy doing that, I'll have to hire $50. a night guys to run my show, and I'll have problems with that, because they won't have the commitment I have nor the interest...

Well Knight...
I think you have hit a point ($50.00 a night KJ's) -{ hired employees } I see that here in NM... Hmmm it's a sad thought.. AND I'm NOT going to Encourage ANY Professional to go to that level.. Also I see Deb's Point and it was not meant to go there.. But There are places who will pay excellent money for a great karaoke show if you have such a talent.
and I'm not talking bad if that comes across as such. I mean it in a good way.

I promise you that this is my last word on the subject!
Charge $2 for a glass of water. End of problem!

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Imagine!

That's exactly what I told the bar I'm at now... charge the same amount for beer for bottled water.

Hey Knight,
Is there a bar close by where you sing? I'll charge the singers a buck a song and split the profits with the bar... as long as the water is free...

I would charge the bar 150.00 to bring in a system... Who Would WIN?

I bet it would only last 3 months...

But being professional I would not undercut or do that to another show.
Those are the things that start off undercutters.. think like a fighter and you will win everytime.

a buck a song would be maximum 65 bucks!! Not much profit there!

$150 a night for a system is not much unless you are just starting out or playing small mobile gigs. As I said those of us who make a living at this know that you charge for water unless the people have already made purchases. Some places still charge for water even after that. My places charge, some try to say they will order later. Fine they sing later too if at all.

Maybe the water drinkers are designated drivers, or perhaps can't drink alcohol for medical reasons, etc. There can be many reasons why someone is drinking only water in a bar.

That is why they need to PURCHASE their non alcoholic beverage,
food, etc. their purchase is their ticket to sing. Karaoke is NOT free.
That has been the post here in this thread over and over and over
and over and over and over and........................................
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Folks, I am new here and all, but are water drinks really a problem? Do hoards of people file into a place and spend no money and clog up the rotation? From my limited experience the water drinkers that I see are few and invariably with others who are spending at least enough to compensate. I have always felt that the water drinker was showing good judgement and responsibility and was allowing others to go a little further than they could have otherwise. Someone is going to have to get the drinkers home. Am I being naive here?

keith Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:38 am Post subject:

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Folks, I am new here and all, but are water drinks really a problem? YES

Do hoards of people file into a place and spend no money and clog up the rotation? Sometimes to often at some shows

From my limited experience the water drinkers that I see are few and invariably with others who are spending at least enough to compensate. I have always felt that the water drinker was showing good judgment and responsibility and was allowing others to go a little further than they could have otherwise. Someone is going to have to get the drinkers home.

Am I being naive here? YES, even designated drives can purchase a soda or a coffee or a water or food if they are singing. What part of pay for the service is not understood? KARAOKE IS NOT A FREE SERVICE, PURCHASES ARE THE PRICE OF ADMISSION. SO GO AHEAD AND DRINK THE WATER YOU BUY, and sing to your heart's content.

Freeloaders are always looking for an excuse to sing without paying, and yes for many a company that is a PROBLEM. Karaoke is a business being run by people to earn the venue money from people who come into the club and buy/purchase product be it nonalcohol, food, or alcohol. To try to sing without making a purchase is to STEAL or SHOPLIFT from both the karaoke AND the club. If enough "steal" from the venue then there is a problem. It is that plain.

Man, some people have to chill about this so called problem. I have a show to do, I do it, if there is a problem with so called water drinkers, it's the bar's problem, the same as the person who buys a pop or a drink and nurse it all night. If a bar sees a problem, they will fix it and most bars charge for bottled water and soft drinks anyways. I think too many people here are making a mountain out of a mole hill. The difference between a water drinker (if the water is free) and a nurser, maybe a $1.50-$2.00, in a run of a night (with 10 nursers) $20-30 max.

Debra,

Your karaoke might not be a free service but mine is. I charge one person, the venue owner. After that I am there to provide my entertainment services to anyone in the venue that wishes to avail themselves of them.

What about the person that has purchased so much from the venue that they can barely stand up? Do you let them sing? Or do you cut them off because they might damage your equipment or drive away other customers? What about dancing? Should we kick water drinkers off the dance floor?

If one of my venues was having a problem with freeloaders then I would tell them to either charge a cover, charge for water or have a minimum. But there is no way I would start doing their job for them.

By the way, where do these water drinking singers come from? I have never actually seen one. My singers won't go near the stage until they have at least three or four drinks in them.