Karaoke Forums

I've seen this ever since he started posting.  It's all about him.  Even when he asks questions to get answers, he challenges the answers to fit HIS needs.  I totally agree!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I build my own following through advertising and repeatedly giving good customer service. More importantly, a solid professional relationship with the owners/managers, so i'm NOT looking for more jobs like you are.

WHEN you become successful, if you EVER do, AND CAN semi-retire at an early age... then we could probably find common ground.. and i'll indulge in your nazi-karaoke style and as to WHY it was so successful.

Some of your posts are informative, Most are condescending, but Nearly all are lacking the professional skills you'll need to make REAL money at this. Perhaps you are comfortable with ONE gig the rest of your life...that's okay if you wanna live hand-to-mouth... whatever floats your boat...

I am TIRING of you now Side.... i can't afford to waste time debating with a simple starving kj that's ego-driven and inflexible- reminds me of a few conversations i've had with my employees that had no sense of business...what a waste of my time. 
 
I'm sure you will continue to push your "inferior game" of business 101 to the newbies until the admins stop you..as for me...
GAME OVER  :yes:  See ya... wouldn't EVER want to be ya dude.

EXACTLY!

I've had one gig where the owner tried to dictate to me on how to do singing "policy" (Ole's in Portland, OR)... I told her that SHE didn't pay me, her paying customers did. If they stopped coming in, then I'd be out of a job. If she really wants to see how to t!ck off an entire room, I'll publicly TELL them, "This next singer is up because the OWNER of the bar wants them to be up. Regardless of all the money you guys are spending, the OWNER of the bar feels this person is more important!"

I DID warn her that one time. She paled, and walked away from it. Didn't stop her from trying to do it again and again, and I'd calmly tell her that ANY singer waited their fair turn, no matter who they were.

I did make the occassional exception for the waitress or bartender in multiple gigs... if they had a free moment, a slack time, then I'd put them up when I could, and explained it over the microphone. And at Reds, that's where I came up with the "When Josh Sings" or when the bartender sings... the drink and food specials.

I think it's correct to explain to the owner/manager on the correct way to run a rotation .  Most are probably ignorant to the KARAOKE scene and that singers are waiting patiently to sing.   ONCE you explain that and the owner/manager wants to tell you to put SO and SO up next  if it is an isolated incidence you'll have to do it.

Whatever you think ....they are the bosses    Sure it is your equipment and your services but after all you work for them.  If you don' like it of course you can WALK OUT and never go back ...... You can do that with any job you don't like.

The only time you are TRULY the boss is when you OWN the bar you are playing at.
Karaoke is a service business and you will always be hired by someone who ultimatley calls the shots.  Its that simple, you may have understandngs and agreements and some even contracts  but KJ's are HIRED HELP.

Years ago a popular club in Loveland tried karaoke.  The host played favorites with his singers over regular bar patrons. They havnt had karaoke since.. It can work both ways but either one is a show killer.

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I would guess that BAD MANAGEMENT more than bad karaoke is the cause of many a bars failures !!

Kappy,

Thanks for the noticing the birds.  However, they are not mine, but belong to a good friend of mine.  You are correct, they're too noisy and too messy for me!

MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

"KJ's are hired help" and to MOST(not all, but most) owners are a DIME A DOZEN!

Now having said that:
"If you hired Richard Pryor to do his routine and you decided that he should do the whole thing your way.  Would it still be Richard Pryors show?"

That hits the nail right on head. You HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RUN YOUR OWN SHOW other wise its NOT your show. You can make an exception once in awhile for a drunk bar owner here or there who wants his equally drunk friend to sing next---but if it continues all the time---or they start trying to tell you HOW to do your work---then its time to either set them down and explain things to them or  for you to find another place or simply get used to it and accept it. For me if there were no change to it I would sooner or later leave(mostly sooner).

And YES people do come to the show to SEE YOU. They like to come to a place where they have gotten to know the KJ, like them, and know that he/she is fair, helpful and takes pride in thier work, show and singers!! For an example whenever i make a weekender from Portland to Seattle, Im going to try my best to stop overnight at Tacoma and go see Lonnie's show at the T-Bird--agian because I know he does it right and hes does a reliable, fair and enjoyable show.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Kurt I know your feelings because at a show I consider myself as an employee and act accordingly. However we are independent contractors and come under the category of entertainment.

Incedently I didnt know about the 1099-MISC IRS requirement.

A contractor retains control over his performance or show. That is how you handle it..

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Again Everyone,

     Getting back to the two (2) original posts. BOTH these situations should be resolved prior to the first show, BEFORE they become issues of disagreement. All of us who are "in the business" as well as those that enjoy either watching, singing, or both, AND have been on this or other forums for even a short period of time, realize what must be part of an agreement/contract between the person who hires you. Sometimes (most actually) it's the bar MANAGER. Sometimee the bar OWNER. When the bar manager hires you, more times than not, he/she is the person who'll be "in house" during your shows. In that instance, you would hope he/she has enough business savvy to pass on any/all agreements made on to the owner to avoid the "possibilities" of what these posting are about to actually occur. Not being a perfect world, I'm sure there are some managers that think that the owner, and his "entourage" for the evening, (wife, girlfriend, some of the guys, etc., etc.) would not be problematic, and would themselves have enough "business sense" not to rock the boat. (ie. making exceptions for "their crowd"...for whatever reason) Now if the owner does all the hiring (preferred..IMO) then the probability of surprises in the way you work THEIR room, let's face it....it is theirs...is negated because you've already discussed rotation, darts, movies,  specials of whatever, etc., etc..  We all know that there could be "special" situation that may arise "out of the blue"...one night, one time. A real good KJ will recognize immediately if special considerations in those instances are going to help HIM promote himself AND his show AND the establishment.  Again, situations , the most prominent, as well as "off the wall surprises" could and should be discussed prior to working any venue, and insure that the owner, if not present at your hiring, be advised of what the agreement entailed. Again, just an observation in regards to the TWO in ONE post we have here. The end result would be, 'cause you covered all the bases, YES...you run your show....with  exceptions left to your discretion...based on situation and fair play.


                            Donny "B"    8)

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It's a wonderful life!!

But when you hire an independent contractor to do a job, you normally would tell them what YOU as the hiring side want as far as their job, so in a sense you are telling them what to do because you hired them.  You don't just hire a contractor & hope they do what you wanted...I know I don't.  They follow my direction & plan THEN they take that plan & do the job.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

That subject should be addressed in the consult in which case I would not contract with them.. If it came up as a later problem (I have been there) I immediately shut down and start packing.

I repeat as a contractor I have control. I am not under their direct supervision. I set the rules they dont. If you want to cater to those types go ahead I will not sacrifice my reputation AND DO NOT WORK FOR DRUNK MNGRS OR BAR OWNERS..

I do $600 wedding receptions and comply with their wishes unless it reflects upon my reputation.

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TTowntenor,
  For the most part I would agree with the contractor/vendor category. I think (IMO)
as entertainers ( because that's what we do...right? ) we provide a service to owners/bar managers, and their patrons, that is a little more complicated "inter-action wise" than your normal contractor/ vendor relashionship. As an example ( I hate giving these ), a bar, home owner, general contractor,...whatever, needs "something'" done involving "the trades". (ie., electrical, plumbing, etc.) so he contacts one of those, sits down, tells him what the end result he's looking for is, and the person hired starts the job. A job the hirer knows nothing about. He's pretty much hoping that whatever was discussed at their initial meeting, will be evident in the final product. I'm sure that during that meeting there was a discussion of codes, materials, price ( profits and costs ) and more than likely the "what if's". Now, the contractor, (us) being the "expert" ( again us) would know from experience ( one more time..us) would be able to "enlighten" him as to what "situations" may arise during the "performance"  (us again) of his job, and the methods he has used in the past to "alleviate"  or negate those problems, before they arise.
Seeing that what we do is more people interactive than most ( not all ) I don't see a problem with the discussing format and pretty much "advising" an owner or bar manager, what situations may arise, and how it's "normally" handled. Again, TT,
just an observation and my own personal opinion. I know others look at things differently than I do sometimes, but hey..it's a forum...and we've all agreed to disagree just by posting. Well ....some of us anyway. Ok...no harm, no foul.
Basically, ( for the most part ) I DO agree with you. Just don't know about the generalization of contrators, vendors, entertainers being "lumped" in one category, where the differences between them CAN be so far apart in reality.

                                        Donny "B"    8)

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It's a wonderful life!!

Analogy>>> If I was a framer and was requested to use 24" center between the studs instead of 16" I would walk off the job. Contractors are not contracted  or hired as menial laborers they are contracted for their expertise and knowledge.

I have contracted to many bars in many professions. They never told me how to run speaker wires or got involved in my profession. They contracted with a pro and told me what they wanted and relied upon my services. If they had special requests they were taken into consideration and included in the original estimate.

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karyoker,

     HEY.....didn't I just say that...the loooonnngg  waaaayyyy??!!

In case you're all wondering, when I DO contract, there are "some things" I just won't bend on. If we can't agree....on to the next prospect. However, I've been fortunate. ( they must feel bad for the "old guy" ) I've never had a bar manager or owner not agree to the way I "presented my concerns"...not give him ultimatums. Usually, especially if they're new owners, they appreiciate the "heads - up " on possibilities presented and the solutions in place.

                                           Donny "B"  

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It's a wonderful life!!

Donny  I have only had this problem one time It was in a hispanic tejano nightclub. When an owner told me he and his girl friend was next I shut the music off and the little gal that hired me was in his face in a heartbeat.  LMAO

Let me tell you what!! Do not screw with these people..

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It seems more people agree with the "one job" KJ, than disagree.

If you hire a plumber to do a sewer line.  He does it according to code.  Not what i tell him to do.     Because it has to meet that code and be inspected.   Doing it my way will cost him lost money and lost time.

When (that one bar owner) a bar owner hires me, it's for my expertise in the karaoke field.  Most bar owners can't even run the bar right let alone tell me how and what to do to make the karaoke night a success.

My commitment to MY job stands.    I'll do the karaoke they way i know it will make you money.  You pay me and shut up.    You hired an expert.   You can hire a non expert that can kill your business.  I know quite a few.


Bars go out of business from mismanagement.    Bad bartenders and bad entertainment can help the process.   I won't be part of it, unless i'm listening to you.

Everyone,
 In case you all haven't realized it yet.....we are blessed.  :pray: We have our own in house expert to tell ALL of us the how's, the why's, and the what happens's, if we don't do it HIS way . Dang...how did we survive, for soooo looonng, without him?
 With that, will the person who ticked off the karaoke gods enough to send us this  :looney:  :ggof: please tell them you're sorry so they'll take him back?
Then maybe we can have restored, and return to our karaoke forum lives in peace, tranquility, and .
 For those of you who have endured and survived, I offer  :hi5: , , , , , .

Again, just an observation  :yes:  :wink: .

                              Donny "B"    8)

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It's a wonderful life!!

 LMAO

In my experience, Bar Owners and Managers cannot direct the "nature of your business", you being a contractor, but can require you to change things to accommodate THEIR bar if they deem it more profitable.

"Bite the hand that feeds you" and you'll be looking for another job...guaranteed.

I however DO agree that most bar managers have no idea what they're doing when it comes to karaoke, BUT the ones that DO you gotta listen and make changes, or they'll start looking for a replacement who can provide what they want.

I've replaced MANY a ego-driven hard azz KJ that wouldn't listen to the owners request of not drinking alcohol OTJ, changing hours of performance, relocating equipment, waiting for certain sports events to end, being preempted for a private party last minute, or changing days of performance, to name a few. Their "sense of entitlement" (aka ego) got them canned.

When you control the MONEY and OWN the venue then you can do it 100% your way. I think a lot of kjs "TALK a Big Game" outside of their venues, but when working, they KNOW they need the money and better listen up or be put in the unemployment line. The ones that don't sometimes end up HERE to garner support of how they were "wronged"....whilst newly unemployed.

WHO said the customers pay us? That's not true. Not directly. Unless you're a hair-splitter and are talking about tips.

I believe in having lots of pride in our jobs, but when you start to believe you own and control everything, it's reckless and you'll lose your job eventually...  J.R.