Karaoke Forums

In regard, most specifically, to the very last post:

One of my KJ/Dj friends, who is an audiophile, insists how discernible the loss of quality is in the upper range (when using lower bit rates) when one listens in a room that has been set up for professional audio purposes

How does one respond to that assertion, which is probably true, to justify lower recording bit rates? I feel like saying, "so, what?"

If he is an audiophile, report him right away..

I find as a person ages, hearing drops off in the higher freqs..

I see musicians with hearing aids because the cranked the volume up to 11..

What was the question?

i said "audio" not "pedi" phile

That's waht I said..

Not unless someone develops a better compression scheme than MPEG, or just use raw .BIN files..... As others have said, the best you can do is rip at 320K, use constant bit rate and find a good CODEC. Anything under 256K through a good sound system and you can easily tell it's an MPEG and not a CD.

Also, worth pointing out that LAME is not the only encoder out there...

Wow, you must have excellent ears, because I can hear the difference at below 192 but not above that in a gig environment.

And now, my standard MP3 rant. Apologies in advance:


I had no trouble moving between vinyl and high quality tape. I had no problem moving to high quality cassettes. I had no problem moving to high quality laser discs, and I had no problem moving to compact discs. Why? because each of these was a step FORWARD in quality. ( although, in many cases, vinyl can STILL produce more nuance than CDs) Now, for the very first time, people have embraced an INFERIOR product in trade for "convenience". I state that unequivocally.

Electronic testing ( oscilloscope and meter) show MP3s to be inferior to just about every other sound source out there. Even if ripped by a professional sound man, you will find random compression, key drift, dropouts, and timing changes on virtually ANY MP3 tested. This is fact, and if you or someone you know is capable of using the instruments, feel free to test them. They are what they are.

Take that info, and add the following:

Absolutely no quality control or consistancy. Many might argue that doing this or that "properly" will solve any problems ( It won't- they are inherent in the medium. The best you can hope for is to minimize them.). Even if that were true, it would only apply to one specific individual. You. Who uploaded it, and from what source? With what software and hardware? Anyone ever get an MP3 from a buddy via e-mail? How many times, through how many software programs, through how many PCs, through how many transmission mediums, has an MP3 been processed? Through how many people, and at what level of expertise? Then, after YOU download it ( expertly, of course), you run it through YOUR software and hardware.....

Now add PIRATE copies that are floating around out there....

Wait, you with some electronic backgrounds say: CDs are digitally recorded! How can they be better?

1) A licensed CD is a first copy of a master recording made with multi-track professional recording and manufacturing equipment, and while digital, the many and multiple track AND DENSITY of the recording procedure allow it to record full nuance, unlike a min track overprocessed MP3:

LIke this: MP3- 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0


CD- 10 101010 101
1 1 0
010101010 01010
11

More density and many channels ( Yes, I realize this is a crappy representation, but I'm tired and there aren't enough options )

Consistant and controlled. It's also solid media. Physical damage aside, it won't change, no matter who uses it..


Some others will say that many or most can't tell the difference.

Some can, some can't. It all depends on the hearing of the listener. OK. ( Personally, I hear them as flat or empty). However, I have yet to hear ANYONE, including the staunchest PC users, say they sound BETTER. Because they don't.

BTW- How do you like paying a company for nothing tangible? YOU BUY an MP3 from Amazon, and guess what? They still have it! This is why the sellers have pushed so hard for downloads. You pay them for a product, they keep it, and sell it again! and again! and again!.....and on and on...Never to be replaced, no manufacturing, minimal overhead. THAT'LL bolster the economy....

I will be happy to move to a SUPERIOR medium- as soon as one comes along. I won't do it for my personal so-called convenience. I won't do it because it's trendy and "everyone's doing it." I will give my clients ONLY the best that I can offer. In my very personal opinion, that's CDs and CD+Gs. If that take some more muscle, so be it. I can use the exercise, and quality comes first.


....ahhh, OK, I feel better. Thanks for putting up with me...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'm sticking with discs for the time being at least. I just can't be bothered to sit for hours on end ripping discs. Just a lazy old caveman I suppose..

I just did it in spare time. While cleaning the house, making dinner, chores of some sort or just when I was kicking back on the computer. Would just throw a disc in, start the rip & let it be, takes about 10-15 minutes per disc so got pretty productive.

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Ishould add a bit to my previous rant. I HAVE ripped my discs to the laptop. If I have a teeny house party with no room I will use it. But I wouldn't be caught DEAD using it at a public venue....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Why do you have to rip to mp3? Sure V0 bitrate is 'almost' CD quality, but .wav is what you should aim if you have to go pc.

Now don't tell me yours system (and your ears) is good enough to hear the diffrent between a .wav file and the same file from a CD.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I did rip a couple of them already. I got the plextor drive & the tricerasoft ripper. It worked very well & the quality at 320kbs is perfectly good enough but that's about as far as I went. I really only bought the gear to back up my own discs.
Maybe the legalities of doing that are a bit muddy too but, I'll be darned if I'm going to have all my discs damaged or stolen one day and be instantly out of business.

If the only reason a KJ is staying with CDG's versus Mp3+G ( ripped at a quality rate) is because of audio quality ----- YOU ARE NUTS !!!!

We all agree that the test prove some loss in audio quality when compressing the audio. But in a KARAOKE Show?????? Come on 99.9% of singers will not notice any drop off in quality what so ever ........ If you are a KJ who insists on using only CDGS thats is GREAT !!!! maybe nuts ... but that is GREAT ... Just don't think for a minute that your show SOUNDS any better than the guy or gal down the street using a equivalent sound system.... PAAAAALEESE !!!!!

For me its just part laziness and partly because I have only just switched to doing karaoke so I'm still finding my feet. I used to play guitar & sing to my backing tracks. Karaoke is more fun, don't know why I didn't think of it years ago!

There is no way in hell that anyone will hear any audio quality difference if they are ripped at a decent rate. If you do, then good for you, I hope you find a condom that fits one day.
In any case, some tracks made by different manufacturers are vastly different from others already in terms of the mix, top & low end so there are times when I find myself adjusting the EQ.

Well it WOULD sound that much better provided you were in a sterile environment & that you are listening only to the music with ideal listening conditions & not the crowd noise & bottles & glasses clanking.
Plus if you have a decent sounding system to begin with, a good pro quality audio card, a ripped song at 192 (minimum) or better is not going to be noticably detectable to the average ears (which most are) in a crowded bar!

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JoeChartreuse, it's kind of hard to disagree with anything in your post. And I find it kind of hard to believe others don't notice the difference in sound quality as well - more so if you're a singer.

MP3s come down to a matter of convenience - you sacrifice sound quality for size and portability. Add in the different CODECs and compression schemes, stereo/joint stereo, and there really is no uniformity or comparison to a pressed disc. Not to mention most of the quality that's lost or summed is in the vocal range.

If you're running med. bitrate MP3s though cheap sound gear, you may not notice much difference between them and CDs. Play them through a quality sound system and it's night and day. No super hearing needed. I remember the first batch of Mpegs and MP2s I made using the original Fraunhofer Codec, with the settings recommended by the software maker. It sounded like aliens.

As most of you have, I've been to many karaoke shows, some using discs players, some usings PC's. Most PC shows I've attended have MP3+g files that are between 128 to 192 Kbps, few are at 224 or higher.

Nonetheless, I have never run into anyone at a Pc show who has voiced disappointment with the (absolute) quality of the sound based upon the format of the tracks. Futhermore, I have never met anyone who has stated that the sound quality of a CDG show is superior to a PC show.

Have any of you met anyone who has voiced an opinion regarding Disc vs PC quality since PC shows have become so common?

I have been to both. Listened to both. Both sound great. Both break down. Alway's have a back up.

When I got my tower, we did some blind tests (tv's off, no one can see behind my booth from the crowd unless you are standing in front of me). All my files are ripped at 192 wma based (Hoster kma). M-Audio 192 Audiophile soundcard all balanced outputs. I ran both the disc & the file at the same time (as sync'd as possible) through the mixer with the same levels/eq settings/etc. jumping back & forth to each. The crowd of about 15 that was left - this was at the end of the night after the show - had a majority vote of which one sounded better, the computer won - believe it or not.

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