Karaoke Forums

As a car show DJ, I have a similar story in regards to people who provide a service for free when everyone else charges. There was a guy in our area that would go around to all the car clubs and service clubs who put on car shows, that he could provide music for free as he just liked cars and music and couldn't see charging for that service. Another DJ and I had talked to him about this explaining it was hard for us to go and get gigs because the car show promoters would bring up his service and now they expect us to do it free or for very little. Car show DJs get about the same as KJ in a bar, so we ain't getting rich. After our little "heart to heart", he started charging too. He was, in effect, stealing from us.

Interesting read and some good suggestions in how Dr. Fred could get more compensation so he could buy more songs to please his customers even further.

HOWEVER, those who are bashing Dr. Fred are TOTALLY WRONG and are making outlandish statements without knowing JACK...so to speak. Stop HATING and more importantly, STOP JUDGING. We are all here to discuss, no?

SwingCatKurt, i respect your view on most things, but every now and then (NOW) i think you jump in and throw out some ridiculous unfactual judgements. Dr. Fred knows what he is doing, does NOT think the bar owes him anything, ISN't DEMANDING the bar pay him anything, ISN'T complaining (only asking for more advice/opinions- NOT A JUDGEMENT FROM YOU or anyone else) and DOESN"T believes he DESERVES to be paid as a professional- WHERE IN THE HE_ _ DID YOU GET THAT IDEA FROM???????

YOU are totally NEGATING any kind of rational and fair "respect" you have in this forum for delivering (MOST OF THE TIME) invaluble experience and guidance, DUE to your outrageous and UNTRUE statements of Dr. Fred's situation here and OTHER times when you flame without thinking!! IMHO... EVEN WITH your pre-judgement... "it sounds like"... as a quasi-disclaimer. You are still judging- AS I AM Y-O-U...how does it feel???? Sucks when someone attacks doesn't it? I DO RESPECT YOU KURT, BUT NOT ON THIS ONE BY ANY MEANS WHATSOEVER.

Lodrairgtar, i think your post was a good and easy to understand true story, but the part about "He was, in effect, stealing from us" is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS!!

Our jobs or careers as a dj or kj makes it OUR OWN personal responsibility for our success or failure. Blaming others IS NOT the answer. With 1000 more karaoke pirates every year popping up, WHY DO most of us "Non-Pirates" still survive and thrive?? Because of hard work- not blame.

-pardon my rant everyone, but i couldn't stand still and let you talk Sh-t about nothing you know about, or MAKE UP stuff that IS NOT TRUE! Nothing personal, but if you take it that way, Flame on ME, NOT DR. FRED- he is NOT a bad person, NOT an undercutter, NOT trying to steal YOUR show, NOT trying to bring our industry down.. and HAS NEVER represented himself as a Know-It-All.... read between the lines...he was just asking a few questions for input......SHEESH! (as Matt would say) Aloha J.R.

OH...and ANYONE feel free to correct me on anything I may have said or interpreted wrongly. I'm SURE a few here will... JUST KNOW i DON"T MIND BEING IMPERFECT or HAVE A KNOW-IT ALL mentality......dj egos are ridiculous!

Confidence should lead to Humbleness and Humility if you are truly on the "right road" to maturity.

Egos display immaturity, insecurity, and most of all..ignorance, IMHO (there's my disclaimer) Aloha. J.R.

I truly wasn't bashing anyone, and I hope no one thought that. As far as the stealing comment goes, it wasn't really directed at Fred, but was just reflecting on the "culture" we here in our area deal with. The environs in and around Milwaukee is all about cheap, and or, free. Car show promoters will try and get you to give your service away considering most are usually to benefit a charity of some kind. This person (a nice guy really) was getting shows that others had held and putting us out of work. Most of us in our field here have agreements not to step on others toes by undercutting. If Fred likes his arrangement, that's all fine and good, but like some else said...bar owners talk amongst themselves, especially those that want to procure entertainment of some kind.

Sorry if I'm going to upset anyone by doing something I've complained about regarding others in the past ---- I've haven't read but a few of the posts.

I want to offer some food for thought which may have already been suggested:

- It's too late to look to get paid by the venue

- Put up signS all over the venue --- Karaoke for Tips

- Announce ever 15 minutes that it's karaoke for tips.

- Announce that no one sings who doesn't tip

- If that doesn't work, give the gig up. And please excuse this joke, Dr Fred
A FELLOW WAS MARCHING IN THE CIRCUS PARADE RIGHT BEHIND THE ELEPHANTS. He was pushing a garbage can on wheels along with a broom and shovel. It was clearly not the most desirable job on earth and at the end of the route one of the townspeople asked him why he didn't look for a better job? His response, "what, and leave show business"?

Lordairgtar , please forgive me if i was rude to you. I know your post wasn't referring to Dr. Fred- i should have clarified that.

I do believe in charity work and the guy you mentioned intentions were good and for him fun, but i think that if someone creates a job (deejaying for free at a car show, for example) has nothing to do with the "next guy" who wants to make a profit from it.

Had this first guy not deejayed at all, the 'next guy' might not have known the job was there or even existed, so to perhaps get a little upset that it couldn't have been better capitolized on, (IMHO).... shows a bit of selfishness and greed, and takes away from the original intention of helping out and 'for fun for on everyones behalf"- not profit.

I naturally could be wrong...

Ok some clarifications.

I don't get paid on my regular thursday gig, except free drinks. And no I am not a drunk, it is never more than 3 drinks in a night, more often two, sometimes only soda.

The bar where I did have the busy show does pay me about $150 a night, they recruited me, and I only do it there about once a month. I have never set my rates they pay me acording to the nightly sales. I did my first two gigs there free and then they started paying me, because they were happy with my show. That is a highly unusual sitiation in this town, to actually get a paying gig in this town.

I stated this repeatedly previously.

THE GOING RATE IN MY TOWN FOR ENTERTAINMENT IS JUST ABOUT ZERO.

Another KJ that started in town at the same time as me lost her non paying gig after a couple months, and they did not even get free drinks from the bar.

There are about 300 active bands in town NO KIDDING in terms of bands that perform regularly. Only about 20-30 of the active bands can actually get PAYING GIGS beyond a trival amount.

I know that a lot of bands in town who play shows without even getting free drinks.

There are about 30 ACTIVE DJs doing dance music, and most of their gigs are unpaid. There are also about a dozen active KJs in town. Only a few of them have paying gigs.

There is great competition among bands to even get gigs in decent bars because so many bands want the experience to play shows even for free.

That is the situation in my town. DONT BLAME ME FOR UNDERCUTTING THE LOCAL MARKET. IT WAS SUNK BEFORE I STARTED.

I could have taken the capitalistic high ground and only accepted paying gigs, and I would have not have had the opportunity to become experienced. I also would have a closet full of unused karaoke eqipment.

That said I am attempting to be the best KJ I can because it is fun for me. Yes it is my hobby. But I am not taking anyone else's lunch. NO one was making any money doing it before me in my town.

As for another comment that "at least you did not have to pay for all your equipment".

I did. It is all legal. The only thing the bars provide is a plug in the wall and a table. I am currently about 13k invested, and only earned about 3k back.

Now I dont blame the bar owners. I know personally the bar owners of both places I do my gigs. Neither of them are getting rich. The going price for a drink in town is only $2 for a domestic beer and as little as $3.50 for most mixed drinks.

Now If I could get a (regular) paying gig I would, but not at the cost of running a show that I dont find fun. The only reason I bring up the tip issue is that I am looking at another big investment to expand my song list, and the cost is a factor on my mind, and I was curious about how much other people earned in tips.

I have a friend who was a KJ in Chicago and she mentioned she often earned several hundred dollars a night in tips (admittedly often to bump up in the rotation). Now probably most of her cowd was probably well paid yuppies who could afford it, but I wanted to get a feel for the "average" sitation for KJs on this forum.

That's Emily Latella.... Rosanna Danna Danna was "It's always something. If it isn't one thing, it's another..."

Thank you Eric... That's exactly what I meant.

Chip... See Eric's post directly following yours.

I stand corrected.

But in the case of a band playing at a gig; do you feel you should tip the band if you've also paid a cover charge to get in?

I wouldn't. It's either tip the entertainer or the entertainer is paid from the cover charge

It actually does have a lot of effect on the next guy. When a promoter calls you one week before your usual show (remember, these kinds of shows are annual) and tells you they got so and so and he does it for nothing, that totally screws up your planned budget. Equipment costs money, music costs money. The $150 that I get from the show is not being greedy at all, considering the "Wedding Jocks" will charge Relay For Life and other national events $1000 to $1500. Car Show DJs here are a loosely connected group of guys who only do car shows and we look out for each other and pass shows onto each other when a scheduling conflict occurs. The majority of the car clubs that put on the local shows don't have a problem paying for talent, but they will look for the bargain, and free is a bargain. BTW, I do the occasional free show, but those tend to be fund raisers for a local sick kid or something like that.

I believe the characters name was Rosanne Rosannadanna

Thank you for those corrections... I'm sure in the greater scheme of things it really matters!

IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS; karaoke doesn't really matter.

So now giving people the correct information is an eye rolling experience???? If it had been anyone but me, the person would have gotten a thank you, or a "that's right".

"The going rate for entertainment is just about zero"

Only because the entertainment has ALLOWED it to be zero.

I think Fred should check around town and find out what other dj's kjs bands are ACTUALLY getting paid. Im pretty sure he will find its NOT ZERO!

And WHY ON EARTH are you giving the bar a FREE NIGHT??? Maybe a reduced rate, but FREE?????

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

speaking of egos.......lmao.....

I am happy with my situation. The main bar ran my show had a regular karaoke show for several years. It had a small but dedicated following of only about 15 or so people. When the KJ had to move for unrelated reasons, it pretty much came to the decision of either getting an outsider into the group or one of the regular singers taking up the task. As a regular singer I did it. I did not take anyone's gig in that case as the prior KJ was hundreds of miles away, and he has returned for a few visits and done some return shows since then.

I am happy with my decision. Beyond that every other gig I have had has been by the request of outsiders and due to my generally pretty good reputation.

Now I asked a question that was in no way saying my kj Job was not working only how much other people tip in their locations. Not that I need a certain level of tips to get by (i dont). I just happened to be curious.

To go with the above quote, it is not that I cant handle dealing with the elephant dung, I just asked others in the profesion how big a shovel you guys use!!! I am upset. It was just a professional question, and I am sorry that some of you cant take any question involving money without a level of hostility.

The money is a minor part of my motivation for being a KJ that does not mean that it is totally irrelevant for me. For others the balance is obviously more biased towards the money being the reason.

For me I get a lot of job satisfaction for just being able to walk downtown and see a lot of people give me a wave and a smile for a job well done the day after my show. I have a day job that puts food on the table. For a lot in the entertainment industry that is the norm (entertainers working for fun), why can't the full timers accept that. The full time entertainers have to either do a better job or find a niche that the hobyists will not do.

Fred,

I, again, apologize for reading very little of the posts. That's not like me, but nonetheless that's what happened. So, I may have picked up some of tone from what I read. Which people unfortunately do in life when they're too lazy to read the entire story and/or get all the facts.

However, however....I don't see why you don't want to push for some form of compensation? Why would you diminish your efforts and, in effect, the value of what all of us do as KJ's? You are saying to your community, in effect, "people don't derive enough value from what I so it would be unfair of me to expect a few dollars for providing what I do to from everyone who participate"!

That's not fair to you or to us. And if that thought were true, then why do people keep showing up and singing?

So, if you sense some hostility or some other emotions from some of the posters, you may now have the simple and clear basis for those feelings. WHAT WE DO HAS VALUE AND WE SHOULD NOT DO IT FOR NOTHING. Once in awhile giving of oneself for a charity is heartwarming. But doing a regular gig that enriches the venue while you keep doling out money to keep your show up-to-date, makes no sense to me and probably to few others who have engaged you in this discussion.

You, of course, should do what pleases you. But why are you surprised with the results your getting?

I did read this in your OP


It seems to me you have some "hostility" regarding the fact that people spend more on drinks than they PAY you in tips. But isn't that what most people who go to bars do - Drink?

So as I have already suggested, if you want to play for tips make it clear that TIPS is what makes your world go 'round. And that if there is no tip, there is no turn to sing! I don't see anything wrong with that. Do you?

I essentially work for fun even if I get $175-225 a night. From a monetary standpoint, it makes exactly zero sense for me to work at this. I can make much more money doing something else. But I enjoy it, and I guess I do enjoy the recognition.

It is bizarre what people will come up with when you are in the spotlight. I don't really do most of the shows, I have a guy or two that does it for me. But I go and make sure they are getting set up properly -- didn't have to do a thing last time -- and shake a few hands and show the flag. Then I sing one song and leave -- I just about won't sing at my own show because it is too crowded!

Last week I walked in and a number of people started looking at me, and a number of them that aren't singers waved and several said hello. I didn't think anything of it, but then a girl came up and said "So, when is it happening?" I asked when is what happening. She said, "Everybody says you are buying the bar!" She acted disappointed when I said there was no way on earth.

I don't know who started the rumor, but apparently it spread like wildfire. I guess one of my guys offered some opinion about how much money I had, and I had just bought a brand new car. Someone else made some sort of leap, and there you have it.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.