Karaoke Forums

my view on duets or groups is they go under one name and count as that person's turn.

Otherwise for small numbers of people (<10 singers I follow a strict rotation).

When it gets busy I use the following method. A new singer gets placed as close to the 10th place as possible following the rule, they do not get moved ahead of any other singer who has not sung yet, and new/old singers alternate in the list after 10th place. At worst this has gotten as long as a 50 song waiting list....

My solution is because on my busier nights some of the early singers may NEVER get to sing again, even if they wait two hours, while a "new" singer might get to sing in 10-15 minutes. To make it "fair" to both I try to alternate.

If a person leaves his space as a "old" singer is retained so two "new" singers may get to sing in a row in that case.

In any case rotation is difficult to be "fair" to the person who sticks around and the "new" singer. Booze also can make people view "fair" differently unfortunately.

I think we have had the duets discussion, but obviously we have new members.

I allow you to be on stage up to two times per round one time. After that, you get one stage appearance per round.

The reason for this is the pretty common situation where one singer with a large table of non-singers will drag each non-singer up in turn to sing with them. They usually dominate the microphone, and it gets tiresome. It is not "The Marla Show", it is karaoke, and we won't let Marla dominate the stage.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I use Siglos Karaoke Professional, and it is set up to provide a standard rotation. I will put in as many songs as they give me slips for, but they sing one song at a time, and the next time up they will sing their next song, and so on.

When a person comes in, they typically go to the end of the list, but if it is a long rotation, I will try to sandwich them in after the next singer so they won't have to wait too long. Then they get rotated as normal.

I have never gotten a complaint, although for the (so far only one) singer(s) that ask "how many people before I sing", it can be a little misleading, because if you are 5th in cue, but so far only 3 of those people have new songs in, you are 3rd, but if in the interim, the other 2 people bring up new slips, you fall into 5th place again. Other than one person, I have never had a problem with anyone understanding that.

Singer, not KJ, here. I've always found that anything other than a straight rotation is crazymaking. You come in, your slip goes to the end of the rotation, when you run out of new singers you go back to the beginning.

Singers (especially good singers) appreciate hard and fast rules, and KJs who enforce them.

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See/hear the serial version of Michael's karaoke novel, "Outro," at outronovel.blogspot.com

Beginning of night, singers stroll in, put up a slip; slips go latest received to the end; once no new singers are coming in and you've gone through everyone once, that's the official end of the rotation. Back to the beginning; singers continue to stroll in, slipped in every 4-5-6 places, depending on number of singers. End of rotation stays the same, it just grows in between the beginning and end of the rotation. Again, speed is of the essence - if you churn through the singers, people don't complain much. I'd never wait all the way through a rotation if they'd gone through it once and I arrived after that point. I don't make singers wait. Nobody pays to get in.

For those of you hassled by the ones who want to buy their way in, have them offer their coin to the next singer in line, see if they want to give up their place...or for that matter, they can offer it to anyone in the rotation (they usually choose the very next singer because obviously they have a very urgent need to sing). Host doesn't get a bad name for taking bribes, some singers are happy to take the money and give up their spot - everyone wins. Nobody is shoved back one spot because of Mr. Money Bags.

Because someone asks - this is why I have put this here. It works for us very well, have never had anyone complain about my rotation (even when the rotation was 20-30 singers), have been doing this since '97, and have a very big following of singers. Don't scan this and jump to conclusions, and please don't offer me reasons why I should change it and you have a better method. -- You watch...someone won't be able to resist!

I like the whiteboard idea in that everyone can see exactly where they are. Often it's the hiddenness of the rotation that I think makes people apprehensive about where they are. With computerized systems, it seems you could put the rotation right on the karaoke screen, if you have a big screen, in between songs so people could see the lineup. If the whole room can see the rotation, and see what you're doing with it that relieves suspicions that some singer might be being dealt an extra ace!

Reading Karen's post made me think of how many KJ's waste time in between songs. It seems pretty rare for a KJ to be efficient in getting singers up. A minute or two is oftened wasted. Yawwwwwnnnn.....

ok gonna play devils advocate here.

when a individual puts in a song and at the begining of the song she says hey so and so come and help me sing this.......so and so was next to sing....dose he get bumped down and not sing the song he or she wanted????

I believe that extended pregnant pauses between singers is what riles singers up to the point of continually asking when they're singing next. I try not to let the natives get restless - keep the rotation moving, moving, moving. Amazing how people don't ask/complain. Extrapolate this: 1 minute extra between singers, 16 singers an hour, 16 minutes wasted = 3-4 more singers per hour. So simple. Why irritate them by wasting time?

No one really knows what is goes on in the minds of the "singers". I have, "without a whimper" left many shows, never to return again, because of inequities I perceived in the rotation.

As a singer, I rate the experience based upon how much I spend and what perceived value I get in return. If the prices and/or the food or drinks suck, I won't be back if the rotation doesn't meet my needs. If the place is a great place to go and I like the karaoke show, I am more tolerate of mildly deviant rotations!

And as a KJ, I try to be aware of my environs as to who is spending; what they're spending on and how much; are they having a good time; etc? I will not lose, if at all possible, a good spender who is there for the entire show by making unnecessary accommodations to late comers!

I agree with Bruce regarding late comers. And as a singer, I accept that I may not be able to get a turn if I come in late! And I have gone to as many as 3 shows in one evening.

I would never justify to any singer who complained about a show that accommodates late comers, that it is only fair to do so because of their work schedule. That doesn't strike me as fair. And there are likely late comers at every show who aren't working. Can you discriminate between late comers you know were working, vs all other late comers? I don't see how you can?

And most important, consider that I have witnessed singers who will go to a show (which accommodates late comers) after having spent most of the night at another show. And why did they leave that other show? Because the KJ at that other show accommodates late comers. By leaving the first show (where they wouldn't sing again) and arriving at the second show late (where they'll be treated as a late comer) they'll get to sing, yet again!

And we (singers) can see how much time we have for a potty break before our next song.

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I love being a mom!

First, I'm a customer; not a host.
One guy I know did it different, Stormin' Norman, Ocean Deck, Daytona Beach.
He let everyone do two songs in a row. I love that format.
His place is busy, and sometimes you only got up once. Most times, you could get up 2-3 times, always singing two in a row.

You pros out there... try it. Two in a row is great for the singers.

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We have "Two-fer Tuesday". Another place gives you two (on a Sunday gig) if you wear a piece of apparel for the local football team.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Actually I think most of us would call this unfair. Whatever system you use, no one should be able to sing twice before everyone else. And especially twice before someone new to the night.

Since you are hosting a very busy club you are obviously doing many things very well so I wouldn't let this bother you too much. But just a slight modification of your rotation system would go a long way towards rectifying the situation.

There are a lot of suggestions here to pick from. My own, and I also use physical slips, is to give each singer a slot on the board whether they have it covered with a slip or not at the time. If they like to bring up more than one they get piled on top of each other in their slot. I have paper clips to pin them all together so they don't spill all over.

If they like to bring them up one at a time, their next slip goes in their vacant slot no matter when they bring it up.

New singers get inserted at my discretion. Basically when I can get away with it. As you know some singers watch their spot like a hawk and some really don't care that much.

two in a row is fine for slower venues. I've done that myself.

But you get 15 singers, that makes a two hour rotation. MOST people don't want to wait two or more hours to sing again!

Been there done that. Too many singers usually to allow twofers. Lost more customers than gaining. I can see it in a club that don't get (can't hold) a ton of people.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

As a singer, I love two songs. And as a host here in Florida, two songs is more common than one. But.... on the occasion where the rotation exceeds 15, (which is not that common around me), one song is all that most singers will tolerate! And most shows do shift to one song after the first 60-90 minutes.

If I started counting the seconds, minutes or pauses in my show in an attempt to be more efficient then its about time to quit. Its not about efficiency. Just my opinion.

Also, maybe having stuff onscreen helps a bit. But come-on, drinking and low attention span cause people to ask anyway. Nature of the beast.

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All depends on how you train your crowd. The ones that ask me anymore are usually the ones that have never been in before & don't know. You get large rotations, you do tend to count minutes/seconds/gaps to try to get as many singers up as possible. I can't stand shows that take their sweet time in between singers. One I went to 'once' didn't even pull the next disc until the current singer left the stage. Then he would call the next singer, fumble around looking for the disc, load it up, cue it - while the singer is waiting patiently, then start the song. Took almost 2 minutes in between singers with not even fill music going. It wasn't fun as a singer. I like the fast paced shows myself so that's what I offer for my shows.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonnie, to each his own!

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I've been to some "Two-Fer" shows also. It seems to work out fine with a smaller crowd of people waiting to sing. But, there's a particular company whose show/s that I went to a few times in NY, who institutes the "two-fer" policy in all of their shows. It's a show that I avoid now, because they have a following of about 25 people. In a 4 hour show, you only get to sing once in the evening.... Even tho you are singing 2 songs, it just feels different to sing those two songs together and wait 4 hours (with the hopes of possibly singing one more time in the night) as versus singing 1 song and waiting 2 hours to get up a 2nd time in the night.