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c. staley
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 Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:05 pm |
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TO KARAOKE SINGERS:
1. No, there is NOT a "good" mic and a "bad" mic. All mics are "good" and they are all set to the same level. If you want to be persnickety about your personal sound, buy a sound system.
2. DO NOT SING WHEN YOU ARE SICK. Please don't hand me back the mic and say; "Gee, that was pretty good for having bronchitis!" Consideration for others will go a long way.
3. Do not spend all night somewhere else then come in at 1:45 and expect to sing. It doesn't matter if you're a "new singer" because you're also "too late." Don't even get an attitude about it....
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:49 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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exweedfarmer @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:49 pm wrote: DangerousDanKaraoke @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:59 pm wrote: exweedfarmer @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:45 am wrote: ... I would take exception to number three of the first section in the matter of knob twiddling after the song has started. That's like the cook adding spices after he has served the soup. I'm not sure I understand that analogy. I'm primarily talking about volume, not EQ or FX. Some tracks are recorded with a lot of dynamic range, some aren't. If I've set the gain for some horrible synth pan flute track and the next song is an SC track with full orchestration, I'll probably need to lower the track. Same for singers. Some hold the mic at chest level, some hold it directly to their mouth. In order for the vocal/music mix to sound right, the KJ is going to need to ride the gain one way or another. What I was addressing are those hosts who as soon as they push start make a beeline to smoke a butt or to get a drink or head to the loo. At the very least the KJ should stick around until the vocals come in, so if there are any glaring inconsistencies in volume it can be corrected. I've seen lots of singers whose mic level is so low they have to yell to be over the track. Yet the oblivious KJ just leaves it set the same way all night. exweedfarmer @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:45 am wrote: But that tiny little bump of the EQ or FX... please don't. Remember that a singer who might know what he's doing is also making adjustments to his/her sound and doesn't want to be dancing around some would be sound man. A KJ who isn't a sound man to some extent is in the wrong business. What early Elvis rock song doesn't sound better with some reverb? What ballad doesn't sound better with a little "room" ambience rather than stone cold flat and dry? It's my job to make the singer sound great...and I think any professional KJ might know a little more about how to do that technically than your average karaoke warbler. What I meant by the soup analogy is that it would improper and most annoying if the chef brought the soup and a spice tray and continually sampled the soup adding or subtracting ingredients to his liking while you were eating it. Same thing with the audio mix. The mix makes no difference to those who can't sing because they aren't listening. Certainly, you have to be there for the screamers and the whisperers if only to protect your equipment. For those who can sing and know how to use their voice and a mic, I think that changing the sonic enviroment on the fly is a disservice. Singing and performing are like anything else, you learn from your mistakes. How can you tell if you made a mistake if the bad sound wasn't your fault but something the KJ did? My motto has long been "Tweak the singer not the mixer." That doesn't mean go out for a smoke and leave things unattended. But if the singer doesn't know how to hold the mic you might say something like "Hey, I think you might get a better ovarall sound if you held the mic like this." as he's leaving the stage, instead of turning up the gain until it crackles. There is no need for a work-around when you can just fix the problem IMHO. If a kj knows what they are doing - which shouldn't take too long if they actually try to learn their equipment & care about the sound, then adjusting a singer within a couple seconds shouldn't be any problem to any singer because they will not obviously know they are being adjusted. It's usually the kj's that don't have a clue on how to adjust that just 'might' change the volume or do something else that is really obvious or distracting to the singer. Singers that know where to go to sound really good because the kj knows how to adjust their sound - do. Screamers & bad singers tend to migrate elsewhere where the kj's really don't do anything. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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jeffsw6
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:34 am |
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Lonman @ Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:49 am wrote: Singers that know where to go to sound really good because the kj knows how to adjust their sound - do. Screamers & bad singers tend to migrate elsewhere where the kj's really don't do anything.
I have plenty of bad singers or "screamers," too. I don't let them blow out the audience and I do my best to make them sound good.
One guy who is a regular at my show has a speech problem and some kind of handicap. Everyone knows he can't sing but he chooses entertaining songs, knows some of the words, dances and moves around a lot, and sometimes he even comes in costume, doing things like putting on white gloves when singing a Michael Jackson song. His songs are always popular and he gets the crowd going, and I basically try to give him just the right mic level so he can be heard without it being obvious that he is a bad singer, and I use a ton of reverb and delay on his vocal to give the feeling that he is singing in a large, boomy hall with poor speech intelligibility, largely covering up his lack of singing/speaking ability with FX.
I feel like making the "screamers" sound passable is just as important to my show as making the good singers sound good.
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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:12 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
Posts: 22978
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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jeffsw6 @ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:34 am wrote: Lonman @ Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:49 am wrote: Singers that know where to go to sound really good because the kj knows how to adjust their sound - do. Screamers & bad singers tend to migrate elsewhere where the kj's really don't do anything. I have plenty of bad singers or "screamers," too. I don't let them blow out the audience and I do my best to make them sound good. I'm not saying that I never get them, but I don't get them as frequently and when I do, they too get adjusted along with a higher compression ratio. I also get my share of bad singers - it's karaoke, but our good to bad ratio is typically higher than i've heard at shows that do no sound adjustments at all. Quote: I feel like making the "screamers" sound passable is just as important to my show as making the good singers sound good.
Exactly the point! _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:36 pm |
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But if the screamer doesn't know he's screaming, won't he just keep screaming? And if you've got someone who is exceeding the max SPL of the mic transducer and all you're getting is a clipped signal to the mixer, can you fix that with a twiddle other than turning it off?
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Okay, who took my pants?
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:51 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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exweedfarmer @ Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:36 pm wrote: But if the screamer doesn't know he's screaming, won't he just keep screaming? And if you've got someone who is exceeding the max SPL of the mic transducer and all you're getting is a clipped signal to the mixer, can you fix that with a twiddle other than turning it off? So if the screamer is screaming, I shouldn't adjust the gear to accomodate the voice? Adding compression keeping the vocal signal inline with the rest of the music, or I shouldn't worry about & turn the volume down and walk away? Or, not sure what you are getting at. If a screamer is a screamer, then they are going to scream no matter what. Someone that knows what they are doing behind the board can make the screamer sound more like it's in the mix, rather than just hearing them scream.
I suppose it's possible to exceed the mics SPL, but it's a lot easier to deal with a clipping analog signal without hurting the sound too much. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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jeffsw6
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:02 pm |
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exweedfarmer @ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:36 pm wrote: But if the screamer doesn't know he's screaming, won't he just keep screaming? And if you've got someone who is exceeding the max SPL of the mic transducer and all you're getting is a clipped signal to the mixer, can you fix that with a twiddle other than turning it off?
This is not a problem with my microphones, or any semi-professional dynamic mics I have ever used. I have mic'd loud guitar cabinets and even drums with the same mics I use for karaoke singers. These are not expensive mics, in fact, every wired mic I use costs under $200. If you think over-driving the mic is the problem, I politely suggest you visit the technical part of the forum and seek some advice.
They have stage monitors to know they are screaming. At some point, I do not care how their monitor mix sounds, as they are a silly screamer. I do care how the house mix sounds, though, because my audience hears that, and I want them to enjoy their time at the bar, drink more beer, and stay to sing more songs. I don't want them to be driven away by aggravating kids who hold the mic like rappers in music videos and shout senselessly into it. 
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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ
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Jian
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:57 pm |
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jeffsw6 @ 14th April 2010, 9:02 am wrote: exweedfarmer @ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:36 pm wrote: But if the screamer doesn't know he's screaming, won't he just keep screaming? And if you've got someone who is exceeding the max SPL of the mic transducer and all you're getting is a clipped signal to the mixer, can you fix that with a twiddle other than turning it off? This is not a problem with my microphones, or any semi-professional dynamic mics I have ever used. I have mic'd loud guitar cabinets and even drums with the same mics I use for karaoke singers. These are not expensive mics, in fact, every wired mic I use costs under $200. If you think over-driving the mic is the problem, I politely suggest you visit the technical part of the forum and seek some advice. They have stage monitors to know they are screaming. At some point, I do not care how their monitor mix sounds, as they are a silly screamer. I do care how the house mix sounds, though, because my audience hears that, and I want them to enjoy their time at the bar, drink more beer, and stay to sing more songs. I don't want them to be driven away by aggravating kids who hold the mic like rappers in music videos and shout senselessly into it. SM 58 can handle spl of 130db, a sound level that most screamo can't reach.
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