Karaoke Forums

Lmao.......SC has" finally" gone after a few of many who illegally copy and sell their cdgs on hard drives.....yet these same people still sell these pirate hard drives. Lots of pirate KJs continue to host shows, even in the areas where SC is cracking down.....do you think an honest KJ playing a customers burnt disk(not knowing if the customer has the original or not) is even on SC mind? Don't let some people on here fool you......if they don't play a customers disk, it's because they don't want to play it......messes with their control freaky deakiness......and no, if you have the same song , but not by the same manufacturer......it doesn't count as having the same song as on the customer's disk....... Srntynow.......just use logic and common sense.....

When we go someplace new we always look at the books first then if we do not see stuff that he likes to sing (which is usually alot of stuff since most is new) then we ask if they play customers discs. If not then oh well we will find what he does like and he will sing that.
It all depends on the amount of songs and the attitude of the KJ if we ever decide to go back. It does NOT matter about the manu of the songs since most sound almost the same. Been around enough bands and music stuff to know that. I do have a VERY good ear about which ones don't sound right and it is usually just one or two songs and not the whole manu that sound horrible. I know I have a decent ear for sound since others in the "business" of making music (not just playing) come to me to see what I think about stuff.

I recently attended a show that was all disc based. so I brought along with me some burned discs I had made of a bunch of SBI/Sunfly/Zoom stuff that I bought the downloads for. SBI doesn't even release discs, unless you have a custom burned one made. The KJ told me he would only play manufacturer ("factory made) discs only. SBI releases a ton of stuff that is simply not available anywhere else. I respected his position, being a KJ myself, but it was annoying that theses were songs I bought and paid for, yet seem to have no use anywhere, but in my show. These are songs I like to sing to see how different crowds would respond, PLUS I am giving the music and artists some exposure. I always get asked "What was that song?" or "Who sings that?"

I am getting irritated with all the paranoia that the SC raids are causing. If you are legit (in SC's eyes), you have nothing to worry about.

_________________
Wam bam thank you m'am.

on here legit is in the eyes of the beholder...

thousands of songs are very different on the many different karaoke labels.....different keys, different lyrics, length of song, quality of music track, back up singing....etc......can really throw you off, if you're used to a different dub..

Easy for me to handle, I don't play customers discs if they are originals or burnt. I just tell them my laptop wont play CDGs. So far I haven't had anyone bring in a flash/thumb drive wanting me to play off that, but I would still say no if they did because of viruses/spyware and I have no virus/spyware protection on my gig laptop.

How long has this gone on with you helping providing songs. Is it getting old and is the KJ expectant of it now? Any kick backs for ya? Annoying to ya yet? Totally cool that you do that though. I'm part of a small group that also shares when we bring our discs. And the singer is always appreciative. If they KJ doesn't mind, niether do we.

Cue, valid point on the manus not being listed. There are differences for some songs by manufacturers, and some versions you learn to avoid. But, for you to notice that the manu isn't listed means you at least gave the initial effort of checking out the KJ list, which means your not being lazy. And gave the KJ a chance to run "his/her" show.

The slips the guy has a spot to check for whether it is your own disc so he is OK with personal discs.
The first night that we went Thom (my husband) sang some out of his book. Then after that we brought our own whenever we went. The guy was OK with playing the discs then he started to make comments about "Can't you find anything in my book?" (Thing is he doesn't have much of a choice and quite frankly if it was not for the bartenders we would not go back.) But then just 2 weeks ago someone asked if he had a certain current song and he pointed him to Thom to see if he had it. We then handed that guy our book and then the guy started to just sing off our discs since we do have ALOT more current stuff.
Another one we go to that until last week had not bought a new disc in 3 yrs. And then the ones that she did buy was from Walcrack - you know the ones, . We did point her a while ago to a place that will just do a disc with just the songs you want that is a legal place but she would rather just spend $15 for a couple of songs on a disc with the rest that most will not even know what they are let alone sing instead of about $20-$25 for a disc with songs that you know that people want to sing so that whole disc is used.

Sorry.... call me a hard-liner or whatever you want... my feeling is simple:

If you bring your own karaoke discs to a nightclub, you're really not there to do much more than "perform for crowd" with the few songs that you practice at home. Why not bring your own pop and water too and just "borrow" the clubs glasses and ice?

I'd rather have a club full of people who don't care about rotation or "brand of song" and are there to have a good time and sing whatever is available rather than a club full of karaoke-disc-totin' divas that can only sing "what they practice at home" and monitor the rotation.

I don't need "performers" when what I prefer is "participators." The few people that bring in discs really have NO impact on the bottom line of the club and not having them also has NO impact on the bottom line and no impact on the remaining people in the club... except that now they might get in an extra song or two.

Yeah, it's best to just go out and get hammered, sing and make an a$$ of yourself.....no body wants to see someone nail a song..... .....I doubt you can sing, and I don't think you fully understand the true karaoke customer......karaoke must just be background noise where you drop your hat.......it's simple though.....lots of karaoke places(I've been to so many, in so many states, been doing karaoke since you were just sh!tting yellow), and the best ones play a customers cdg(burnt or original).......if a place won't play your cdg, just find one that will.......there is no way a kj is going to get in trouble for playing any disk a customer brings in......0 chance, nil, no way jose.......scare tactics by a few on this forum.........I do believe a customer should own the original tracks, but It's not up to a KJ to inforce it(0 liability for him, ask any lawyer).......just an ego trip.........

Thanks Reverberator...pretty well sums up my thoughts on this, too.

Ditto

Seriously? For the most part, there is very little difference in versions...mostly instrumentation, but the song are generally layed out like the radio versions we all know and love. Any decent singer isn't going to have any problem "nailing" another version of the song if they truly know the song well. I have no interest in taking any chances on having to defend a suit against Sound Choice because some insecure singer insists that is the only version worth singing.

Any KJ that has been in the business for any length of time should have a respectable song selection, and a bunch of songs that would appeal to your "true karaoke customer."

Oh, and no reason to hurl insults with no basis in fact. Just makes you look like a schmuck. C. Staley sings quite well and he understands this business better than most...it's not about catering to a few divas who insist on using their own discs. It's about making money for and protecting the establishment you are working for...your REAL customer.

It would be interesting to see how long your REAL CUSTOMER will keep you around when enough of your PHONY CUSTOMERS stop showing up. It's amazing to see how much contempt you and your old man have for the people that keep you in business. KJs with such disdain for the better than average singer, like you and your other half display, ruin the karaoke experience for many singers with your attitude toward the "divas" of the world. Since neither of you probably fit into the "diva" category, when it comes to singing ability, you must be incredibly jealous of those "divas" that steal the show whenever they sing at your shows. Just FYI; I've seen plenty of horrible singers show up with their own CDGs at just about every karaoke venue that I've ever been to.

Given the choice; I'd rather have a bar full of talented singers than a bunch of William Hung type singers. I think that most bar owners would agree. I've hardly ever seen a bar clear out when one of the "divas" were singing a song but I sure do see lots of people head outside for a cigarette break when the off key screamers get called up to sing. I don't think that I've ever read a thread on any karaoke forum about a bar owner telling the KJ to stop any of the "divas" from singing because they sing too well. The only people that seem to have problems with the karaoke "divas" are the insecure vocally challenged KJ's of the world. They have such a strong need to be the STAR of the show, that anyone who steals a little of their attention is unwanted.

If you knew me at all, you would know that I don't have contempt for anybod, and the last thing I do at my shows is hog the spotlight...our shows have people lining up outside the door. Everyone feels supported and encouraged. I love my singers and most of them are really great, and adventurous with what they will sing.

But since. You seem to know me better than they do...go ahead and attack me, even though you've never met me or set foot in one of my shows. Whatever little man.

The "true karaoke customer?" And who, exactly, would that be? Would that be the singers you have in the club OR would it be the club that PAYS you?...

Hmmmm ... let me think about that for a minute..... let's see.... who is your "customer?" What a toughy question that is...

1. When you have LOTS of singers... the club pays you, the singers don't.

2. When you have LOTS of divas... the club pays you, the divas don't.

3. When you have a FEW singers... the club pays you, the singers don't.

4. When you have a FEW divas... the club pays you, the divas don't...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems to me like the common denominator here is "the club" that pays you.

------------------
[KUS•TUH•MER]

1. a person who buys goods and services from another; buyer; patron

2. Informal: A person one has to deal with; a tough customer; a cool customer.

-------------------

So, by the Random House Dictionary definition above, the "singers" are "customers" of the "club" since they purchase drinks and food and don't purchase anything from the KJ.

In turn, the "club" is the KJ's "customer" since that is who the arrangement is with and payment originates. This is not a difficult concept and if you truly believe that the singers are the KJ's customer's then why aren't they all just chipping in on a weekly basis to have the KJ set up somewhere where they can all sing and just pay 'em directly? What's the difference if you believe the KJ's payment originates from the singers anyway?

By the way, whether or not I personally can sing irrelevant, these "customers" are not coming to hear ME sing anyway... and they're certainly not coming to hear YOU sing either (so stop deluding yourself), they're coming to have a good time and sing THEMSELVES.

Okay BruceFan4Life said:


Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a "customer".... that spends money.



Right... but I can tell you that over the years, I've had PLENTY of bar owners tell me to stop the divas from singing because they SPEND NOTHING. The bar owners would rather have the spending-screamers than the non-spending crooners. If you believe that it's different, then open your own bar and kick out all the screamers and see how long you last. This business is about making money, not vocal ability.



And I'm sure there are a number of "vocally challenged KJ's" out there who have some "need to be a STAR." Sadly, many of them were underappreciated "singers" that weren't getting enough attention from a KJ.... Bummer for them. And there are PLENTY of mediocre "singer-divas" who think that they are spectacular and doing the club a "favor by entertaining the crowd for free."

You look at this business from the standpoint of the star-hungry diva, not from a business standpoint. As a business person, I'm not about to placate YOU at the expense of getting myself or MY customer (the club) sued.



Would "phony customers" be the ones that are NOT paying me now? Because I only have one customer.. the one that pays the bill.



This is not about "contempt" or "disdain" or even "like" or "love." It's simply business. If you think that your local KJ is dependent on your "star-power" and is in "love with your unending vocal talent" then keep going there and leave your wallet at home and see how long YOU last. The "love" will wear thin pretty quickly.

And if you think the KJ is dependent on the number of people YOU bring in with you, then you really have to look in the mirror at who has the needy insecurity problem here and the "hey mommy, look at me!" desire to be accepted by your friends.

I've learned over the years that it's perfectly fine to be "friendly" with the singers that patronize your clubs, but (for the most part), not to become "friends with them" on a social level. Otherwise, they will call you up at 4:00am looking for bail money.





NO!.... What happened? Did they throw you out?
(it's that "common denominator" thing again.... you're there, you have cdg's and there are horrible singers there with cdg's)

I can say after being in the biz for many many years, having been a professional performer for many years, and having been in the PR business apart from karaoke for years, that my focus is indeed on making money for my venues. I do that by providing the best service I can. I have gone in more than once and cleaned up the mess left by another host who was uptight, exclusionary, didn't care about the singers, etc.

If the singers don't come in, the venue doesn't make money. If the singers don't come in, it is because of a two things: One, the venue. If the venue doesn't have good service, good food, etc., then no matter what kind of a host comes in, the place isn't going to make money. Two, a host that does all the wrong things (won't get into those here -- we all know what those are.)

So, my goal is to bring in as many singers as I can. I don't care what their pecadillos are - if they want to sing only the crummy version of a song because that is what they are familiar with, then I will play their version. I'm not taking divas here, I'm talking about people who go and sing in a lot of places and have gotten frustrated because they aren't comfortable with whatever version it is that the host provides. I have many versions of the most popular songs. Not everyone sings the same one, even if I consider it to be the best. Some will ASK for a DK version or a SGB version. I submit, agree to play it even though I KNOW it isn't the best verion.

I hate this this thread has turned into a diva thread. We all have divas at our shows -- they're not always the best singers, and they don't always spend money, but for me they are a very small minority. More likely to get given the bum's rush are the drunks who come in and disrupt. In fact, they don't spend money because they're often too inebriated to be served.

I don't cater more or less to anyone, no matter their singing ability. I do know, however, that the venues I host at are THRILLED at the caliber of singers because the non-singers don't go pulling their hair and scrambling for the door when kararoke starts. So, yes, I am actually making MORE money for the venue by having good singers there since non-singers hang out to listen. In fact, nonsingers come in specifically to listen. Not everyone who sings karaoke has been singing for years. I have many neophytes. I help them and if helping them includes letting them use their own discs, no matter what type, then that's what I do.

I'm not sure why every thread on this forum gets so defensive. Too much reading between the lines with myopic vision apparently.

Karen K said;



And that 's it in a nutshell.... it's not about "bad singers" vs "divas" at all. It's what makes money and keeps the most people happy.

Up until SC started suing KJ's for their trademark issues, I too did not have a problem playing anyone's disc, burnt or otherwise and I didn't care what brand it is. And, by looking at their tactics and knowing their past history, would I put it past them to put out an "investigator disc" they can use to drag someone into court? No, I wouldn't. They are that arrogant and their lawsuits are very profitable for them.

And right now, you can still hand me a disc and I'll play it, the only restriction is that it CANNOT be a Sound Choice disc or a Sound Choice track on a burnt disc period. And I do get people that hand me a burnt disc and when I ask them, they claim they "don't know" if it's Sound Choice or not.... I hand it back to them.

If it's Sound Choice --and I don't already own it-- I won't play it.... Want me to play it? Then purchase the original and donate it to me and it'll ALWAYS be there for you to sing.... a pretty small price to pay (less than most bar tabs) to have "your song" available forever isn't it?

ASCAP/BMI/SESAC fees do not cover music that is not properly licensed to begin with.

Disc burns are allowed for back-up purposes only. It is not legal to use them in a show, for listening privately, or for any other reason than as a back-up.

KJs who play burned discs for the sake of happy customers are risking having no customers at all.