Karaoke Forums

No need for me to offer proof that it is LEGAL to use a product in a commercaial setting that was purchased from an entity that had the rights to sell the product.

It is up to others to prove that it is illegal to format shift or use legally sold/purchased downloads at a commercial karaoke show.

The justice system of the USA is based on INNOCENT until proven guilty, not the reverse.

No one has ever been covicted of the supposed crime of format shifting or use of a downloaded karaoke song that was PURCHASED from an entity that had the right to sell the song.

I do not have the licensing information on any of the Karaoke CDs that I have purchased proving that it is a legit track, and I doubt any of my fellow KJs do either.

For those who are just joining this thread, I started it by request of Chartbuster to get a reply specifically from Chartbuster. Is it possible to hold off trying to answer for them until they answer themselves? Or I guess I can wait until they are back from their holiday on Tuesday and repost with the question phrased more specifically.

I have to agree with ClassicKaraoke on this one if there isn't a law why do we need a license.

Joe asks to see the license to do it, show me the law that says I can't.

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I'm with leopard on this. Wait until Chartbuster answers. If you must post in this thread until then just say bump so it remains active until they answer.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Sorry guys, just one more question. Why do you need to keep your receipts if you have your disk in hand ? Sheesh, most of us have had our disks for 10-15 years or more.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

Bump for ya!

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Sound Choice wants people to prove that they owned the disc before they were accused of illegal activity. They don't want people to go out and purchase certain CDG Discs after they've been targetted for a shake down.

I don't know of too many people that save a receipt for every single disc that they've ever purchased. I couldn't find a single one if I had to.

But SC is smart, they have all these PAYING CUSTOMERS proving this and proving that... Instead of them(the plaintiffs), proving anything themselves.

Bottom line, if one has no receipts... it would be upto the plaintiff to prove I havnt owned it for years.

Actually I do have every receipt for every disc - it's in every years tax folders I save. Anything business related is saved. Only ones that slip by are discs I buy off of customers - which is rare.

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Thanks Lonman, DannyG and Rumbolt for trying to keep my thread on track. Looks like someone else has rephrased the question and started a new thread. CB should be back from the long weekend by now. Maybe they will answer on one or the other.

I hope they do - I am wondering if it might be a sticky issue for them to publicly take a stand on the advice of an attorney somewhere....Once it's out there, it's out there and there's no taking it back.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Just Sell?

BINGO. That's probably it.

Don't they have licenses for mp3 songs now? I know when I rip through WMP it asks if you want to maintain licenses. I don't know whether you can get a license from an illegal download or not. I know you can if you use someone else's disc to rip onto your computer. Again, if you have the disc and the receipt, at least you're protecting yourself. Maybe they can come up with a way to license the download only to the original owner of (payer for) the download. I know they can limit the number of copies you can make.

I am inclined to agree that there is something to be said for the fact that every Karaoke Host in the country would have already been hauled into court if using karaoke discs in their shows was a violation of the law. Karaoke's been going on for what- 20 years in this country now? How many have been indicted for running a show (not talking illegal downloads here)? Just sayin' - doing the show is not the problem.

I've even read where the fact that karaoke hosting is commercial, this is not what the manufacturers statement on the discs is about. It's about using karaoke tracks for advertising, dubbing in on TV or radio, etc. So I guess be cautious about using show footage on your website.

Chartbuster: I started this thread as you requested I do before you would answer this question. I was thinking you had just been on an extra long Memorial Day weekend but now you have come back on the forum and left again without answering. Are there more hoops that I need to jump through first?

Apologies for taking so long to reply - and thanks to leopard lizard for starting the thread as requested.

From our website: "You are allowed to make a single copy of your Chartbuster Karaoke discs for archive purposes only. Please note that this does not entitle you to use those backed-up tracks for any other purpose than as a back-up, including playing, sharing, distribution or performance.

"Karaoke shows that use tracks stored to a hard disk drive are doing so in violation of the Chartbuster Karaoke license printed on the original disc. Unless the tracks were purchased as digital downloads and are being played from the original disk onto which they were downloaded, the operator is in violation of the license."

You will note that for the purposes of a track that is ripped from a disc, only the disc is authorized for use in a Karaoke Show setting, and not the ripped track.

When you purchase a digital download from our online store, you are given a receipt from that transaction. It is the only record you will have that you legally obtained the track, since no physical disc accompanies the purchase.

If you have a digital download, have your receipts, and are performing a karaoke show, as long as your other licenses are in order, you are authorized to use a Chartbuster Karaoke track purchased in this fashion in your show. This does not confer any other license to you - you must still conform to applicable copyright and performance rights laws, along with any other restriction(s) that may apply. It only expressly means that the use of the Chartbuster Karaoke rendition is authorized by Chartbuster Karaoke, and no other licenses, explicit or implicit, are conferred.

In addition, you should note that in cases of this nature, the courts have yet to determine what distinguishes a back-up copy from an original. Bear in mind that there is no distinguishing feature that can tell any two digital copies apart, other than the media on which they reside. In order to hew as closely as possible to what we believe to be the letter and the spirit of the law, we believe that it is important that the purchaser only download tracks directly to the hard disk drive from which it will be drawn during performance. We don't know how this will eventually shake out in the courts, but until a precedent has been set, this is what we recommend. It may or may not save your entrepreneurial backside later down the road, but it might provide some protection.

Does this mean that the publishers won't come after you for using a digital download in a show? Well, we don't know, and I don't think anyone else does at this point either. They might decide they have bigger fish to fry, even if they think you are infringing. Or they might smell money and land on you with both feet. It's anybody's guess.

Please also note that we make karaoke, not law. We do our best to give you the viewpoint and perspective from where we are sitting. Do not construe any of this to be legal advice - when in doubt, ask your lawyer.

Is this unambiguous enough for the forum?

He is not in a rush to tell you not legal for a show.
Nothing any of us have is legal for a show.
He can legally sell to us and we can legally buy from him.
We are all working illegally with an intangible understanding that we will be left alone.
Format shifting is no real biggie.
The end result is we are at a show reproducing music synchronized to a graphical display of lyrics and logos.
We paid for the privilege of doing that at home only.
While technically they could close down every karaoke venue in the country, it is not going to happen.
I doubt your government would allow such a moral killer to happen either.

Main stream Pirates are targeted for revenue and to send a message to the rest.
It is pretty much working.

Other licences in order.

Fishing licence. Oops... Don't do fishing.
Dog licence. Don't have one anymore.
Driving licence. Yep. Got that.

What am I missing here ?

Thank you, Chartbuster, for your attempt to clarify. I am thinking it won't put an end to the discussion, as I had hoped, but will add fuel to the fire. But all I really wanted is for all manufacturers to be up front about the uses of their product and if a person decides to make up their own law, at least they do it with eyes open rather than having been misled.

And now, for Joe Chartreuse.........and maybe even Sound Choice?

I think the only license you are lacking, Jerry, is a "license to kill" if you are indeed going to have public hangings at your shows as propsed. I got one for myself for when I sing.

No! Don't do it.