Karaoke Forums

Nice toy. Really nice.
I don't get it...
I know some people don't use gaffa.
But you should know better.
Like Lon says. It's part of the job.

The small rug runner wasn't on stage or anywhere near beverages. It was in a potential trip/traffic area.

Well if they move somewhere they aren't supposed to be, yes, then i'd move them back.
But as far as eq, this should be done to both music & singer for each and every song. Since not all singers nor music sound alike or are recorded equally.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Gaff Tape, carpeted runners and even duct tape (which if you purchase the right brands has no residue issue if removed the same week) are all just a part of the job. From bands, to DJ gigs to Karaoke gigs I use plenty of it and encourage it's use by all. I've eliminated much of the problem by using wireless microphones. FOH snakes get covered with runners, XLR drive lines or speaker cables plus any other cables get run as close to walls as possible and are taped down. Any cables that must run across a potential foot traffic path get taped heavily (and if possible covered with a runner as well to help prevent damage).

As far as the feedback when a singer moves in front of the PA, this simply should not happen if quality microphones are used and simple EQ techniques employed. You don't have to re-EQ for each song, you just need to understand the characteristics of your microphone. You EQ for that, not the specific frequencies encountered in a particular song. Additionally, proper gain structure is EXTREMELY important in this realm. Maximizing without boosting the signal early in the chain keeps this type of feedback under wraps.

Not properly managing your cables adds additional risk of liability can be easily avoided. Not properly managing your audio system adds additional risk of equipment and hearing damage that again could be easily avoided. Why would you ever intentionally introduce risks that can be avoided with minimal effort?

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I didn't mean overall eq - once that is tuned to the room, it shouldn't be adjusted again majority of the time, just the mixer channel strip eq for each song.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Owning pro quality equipment (which the Mackie is NOT) and "doing pro audio" are not the same thing. In the same vein, doing studio recording and handling live sound production are two very different things. I know plenty of guys with lots of money to spend that own all sorts of cool pieces but haven't a clue what to do with them or how to use the appropriately and responsibly.

Providing pro audio sound reinforcement in a live environment requires a lot more than owning $3,000 mic, tube pre-amp and goofy half assed pro-sumer digital console. If you're not taping cables or covering them with runners and are instead wrapping them around objects, you've never worked at a professional level in a live sound environment. If you're putting mics on stage that scream when pointed at a monitor or PA cabinent, you've never worked at a professional level in a live sound environment. If you "twist the cable to take out all the kinks" then you've definitely never dealt with live sound or recording in a professional capacity. If you'll spend over three grand on a mic, five grand for a digital recording console and another two to three grand for a tube pre-amp but won't spend $10 a month on gaff tape to protect your rig from complete (and often times drunk) strangers well then you're either lying about your equipment ownership or just simply moronic. Seriously, you'll waste all that money on equipment but you scoff at the idea of $2 worth of tape being used for 4 hours and then discarded?

For the record, being a hack, wannabe or amateur who takes money from those that don't know any better to provide sub-standard service does NOT make you a professional. Professionals have experience, have knowledge that is gained through doing, and have most importantly learned what works and what does not. Based on your own description of your activities, it is clear you have not and therefore are not and have never been.

So Jerry's comment wasn't a low blow, it was a simple statement of fact.

*EDIT* And before anyone gets offended, I'm not saying you have to be a professional audio reinforcement provider to run Karaoke. I merely calling out a fellow poster on his obviously false claims that he personally is in that category.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Basic rule in Television, "Gaff It Down". If there is ANYWAY some idiot can find to trip over a cable, they'll find it. Also if the local Fire Marshall should happen to wander in they could shut you down for uncovered cables in a traffic area.

WOW! Do you feel good about yourself now big boy? I hope you see the irony in the unprofessional way you told me I'm unprofessional.

Just calling out facts, please show me anywhere that I made a statement that wasn't true. I don't have a lot of patience for people who claim to be professional audio engineers yet very clearly have never spent a day working a professional stage in their lives. Even the greenest of stage hands I've ever worked with understand that you NEVER wrap cords around other objects as it leads to dangerous situations and damage to cords, equipment and sometimes the talent themselves. NO professional I've ever worked with has ever shivered the way you do about the prospect of putting out gaff tape for a 4 hour show just to throw it away. It's a necessary part of the job and simply a cost of doing business.

The fact is you claimed to be something you're not. You tried to lend support for your false claim by tossing out the names and model numbers of some equipment you may or may not own. However having knowledge or ownership of that equipment does not make you a professional anything. As I said before, I know a lot of guys that have a lot of money to spend and buy cool stuff like that but will also be the first to admit they're just amateurs experimenting and having fun. There's nothing wrong with that, but the difference between them and you is that they don't claim to be professionals.

So I called you out on a lie, no it doesn't make me feel good. I shouldn't have to. But the fact is I've run into your kind before. You end up getting some folks that know little about the pro audio industry to believe you and then they start following your advice which with your lack of professional experience ends up being horrible, just like the advice you gave in your original post in this thread; suggesting people wrap cables/cords around stationary objects as a way to protect equipment.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

The more you type, the more dogmatic you become. If you can tell so much about someone with so little to go on, how about you join up with Dionne Warwick on the psychic hotline?
You've made a bunch of assumptions, and the only one you're right about is that I'm studio based, not live based. I can't use tape or rugs for mic cords because the drunks will just rip them up when they move around, which I stated as part of the ORIGINAL PROBLEM. But apparently you'd rather rip me a new one UNPROFESSIONALLY than pay attention to what I typed.
You remind me of those contractors who drive like jerks around town cutting people off with their phone number right on the side of the truck.
Be careful of who you call a moron when you've got your contact info right there. You never know who's at the other end.

Mr. Diapers the word is not "dogmatic", it should be the phrase "downright silly".
He is taking time out to try and communicate with a Muppet.
I on the other hand am in awe of your PROFESSIONAL behaviour
and the next time I set up I will tie my cables to everything in sight.
Thanks so much for your advice mate.



The word "psychopath" never entered my head.

You're dealing with drunks in a studio? Most of the studio owners and techs I know wouldn't let someone too intoxicated to pay attention to what they're doing with equipment in the building, much less USE their expensive mics.

And why are they moving around so much? Surely they weren't carrying that Neumann around to sing into it? Most nice studio condensers pretty much require a shock mount to avoid handling noise.

. . . and as Karen pointed out, in a karaoke/live band situation you USE tape and runners BECAUSE there's likely to be drunk patrons about.

You don't "tie" cords to equipment in ways that will allow it to be pulled over.

It's far easier and cheaper to repair or replace a cord that got damaged from being pulled on, than to deal with fines from local and state safety code violations and damages from personal injury lawsuits.

A patron's safety trumps your convenience. Always.

The things you are doing are dangerous and wrong. Several people have pointed out the correct ways to do them.

Put your big girl panties on and learn something.

_________________
Dave's not here.

And you do this in a studio?
I think there is more to this guy than I realised.

OK, so I'll ask again, what have I stated that was untrue. You claimed to have professional experience in live sound, now that's been proven wrong to the point that you can't even continue the lie. You gave live sound advice although now admitting you have no professional experience in that realm. So once more, you claim I'm being dogmatic, well then tell me what strong beliefs I have expressed here that are not true.

I stand behind everything I've said to this point which is exactly why I have no problem listing my full contact information. Now if you want to start making threats, then I'm simply amused to see how absurdly upset you've gotten just by someone on a web forum calling you on your lies. As far as saying you are acting moronically, please explain to me the logic of spending close to 10K on recording equipment (assuming that wasn't a lie too) and then skimping out on a $20 roll of tape?

So I'm being unprofessional? Well when dealing with liars that would try to convince others to do dangers activities, I guess I don't have the patience to try and act in a manner that you'd deem professional.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Tony, don't be too hard on Mr. Diapers, I think he is hero material.
He already reminds me of a T.V. star.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT_n__vs ... re=related

"I can't use tape or rugs for mic cords because the drunks will just rip them up when they move around, "

?? Enlighten me here, if you tape cords/cables down, cover them up with runners or carpets, they (the drunks) will rip them up but if you just leave them bare, everything works out. ? Is that what you are saying because I'm not understanding this.

How do they "rip them up"? They get mad because you spent time doing this so they purposely get down and pull the tape and rugs up with their hands? Or are you saying it's just unsafer to tape and lay carpet vs having cords/cables lying on the floor because at least they can see them?

I think if you can make a good arguement as to the whys,,,,,,,

I'll stand by my statement of being anal with safety, I've had several owners ask me why I tape and/or cover every possible inch of cable. I never want to have an accident and regret not taking a few extra minutes to make my show as safe for the patrons (yes even the drunks) as possible. I don't claim to be a professional even though I make money at it but I'm certainly not about not listening to others and improving every aspect of my show. In the words of Mac Davis, sometimes it's hard to be humble.

_________________
KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

When you folks have no paragraph comprehension, and you resort to immature name calling, I gave up all seriousness. Take a look back there, once letitrip let it rip, I stopped defending myself because I know his flame-war inducing type. You want me to indulge you in defending myself so you can continue to cut down a complete stranger on the internet, that's how forums are, and I'm privy to that. So go with your internet tough-guy banter, but the truth is, I run a drunk show, and you aren't there, so you don't know how my singers behave. You don't know my proximity to them, and you don't know that taping/rugs wouldn't work at this venue. At OTHER venues? Sure, not this one. Hence the title of this thread.
Call me a liar if that makes you happy. Call me names if that's what fulfills you. Tell me I'm upset if that give you a chubby.
Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true.
It's just the internet folks, grow up.

Here we go, now that you can't defend yourself it becomes "I choose not to because you called me a liar" (in my very last post by the way). Sorry dude, YOU started this thread. YOU gave advice that is universally bad regardless of venue. It's dangerous to you, your equipment and your patrons which is why LIVE AUDIO PROFESSIONALS universally reject that methodology. I called you on it and your lies when you tried to put yourself in that category of professionals and you've yet to offer one piece of substantive evidence to support that you did anything but lie. A person who lies is a liar, that's not name calling, that's a statement of fact. Get over it.

Yes this is the internet, but you are giving advice to REAL people, in REAL businesses who take on REAL liability in their business pursuits. Suggesting to them that they do something that constitutes serious negligence and then misrepresenting yourself as some kind of expert (by way of calling yourself a live audio professional) is irresponsible and I have no patience for that.

YOU came in here thinking you were top of the hill, or that at least you could put on a con to make us believe it. Then you found out that most of the folks here know a lot more than you gave them credit for and that you're closer to the bottom of that hill. In response you've thrown a tantrum. The people on this forum are good people with the intentions of helping each other out in a common business pursuit. Everyone here has their expertise in some area and improvement opportunities in other areas. Not one of us has nothing they can learn from the others. The smart ones realize this and are open minded to it. The foolish ones continue to believe they know it all and try to act like it.

Here's a suggestion, if you're going to offer advice, make sure it's sound advice. If you offer advice and someone points out why it is not sound, listen up and learn from them, don't stammer your feet and throw a tantrum and refuse to participate. And stop trying to pretend to be something your not. Admit who you are and just accept that you can be wrong sometimes, lord knows we all can. I'd welcome you proving me wrong on any point I've made in this thread or any other, but your lack of williness to do so simply confirms that my assessment of you was right in the first place.

Here's who I am (from a business perspective). I'm the owner of a small Karaoke/DJ business. I'm also a guitarist that is just starting to launch an acoustic duo (we played our first show two weeks ago opening for Jason McCoy). I'm also a partner in a small production and studio recording company based in SE Wisconsin. I'm the full time FOH engineer for two local bands and have also worked as FOH engineer, monitor engineer, tour manager and stage hand for various other artists ranging from local to international. I have no classroom audio engineering education but work with award winning engineers and Berklee graduates who've taught me much of what I know and have directed me through self study as well. I make no secret of any of this, because I stand behind the things I say. I don't cower in secrecy and anonymity.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Spot on Tony!
I have worked 'drunk' shows as well in small to large areas, never had a problem with a taping issue - again part of doing business. Plus a drunk person can still be educated on where they can and cannot go, I tell people all the time that they need to remain in a specific area, never had a problem in 20 years of karaoke.
But if you are worried about cord, get a cheap Nady wireless set - $50 (hell these are cheap enough to be disposable). No cords nor improper 'wrapping' to worry about.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Just wanna pick a brain...
what is a kink? assuming it's when a mic lead wants to naturally go a different way to the way I want it to go . . . How else are you supposed to take out the kinks? or are you implying that you've not put them away properly if they do kink? or other please explain.

_________________
'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.