Karaoke Forums

I give mad props to anyone who does dj/karaoke full time and makes a decent living at it. The wife and I do 3 shows a week and have a guy part time that does another. We also do live trivia 2 nights a week which I thoroughly enjoy and the pay is great considering the time it takes to do a show and create it.
My pay down here in SW Florida is usually between 50 and 75 bucks per hour for karaoke and around 125 to 150 per show for trivia. I personally feel that is at the low end of the totem pole though reading some of these posts it makes me wonder.
Most of the income I make at these shows I have to pay taxes on. Add in insurance, business license, new music, etc. and it doesn't equate to that much.
We have been pretty fortunate with our karaoke shows and have been at three of them for over 2 or 3 years. We have no hidden formula for success at our shows other than hard work and attention to every detail. Sure, we do shows with props, fog, lights. etc. but we also do smaller shows with 1 speaker and 2 corded mics.
We have hosted Karaoke Battle USA and Talent Quest contests that have been very successful and even made the local newspaper and tv news.
I guess my point is this. I do this part-time... sorta. and usually will not bend to an bar owner's demand for lower pay. I do not consider myself a great and entertaining host either. Sure, I'm friendly and know very well how to mix a singer or make a fair rotation and stick to it. I mingle here and there when given the opportunity and keep my songbooks updated and keep my gear in top working condition. I can even talk that good looking blonde that wants to mic hog all night into chillin courtside and waitin her turn. The drunk that bumrushes the stage and demands airtime is usually talking with me quietly while the next singer is up belting em out. To me thats what happens nightly at our shows but it doesn't make me a great host.
What makes a special host? what are they doing above and beyond the call of duty?

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

I'm still learning about how regionalized the bad economy is ( would you believe that Detroit has a 25% unemployment rate?), but one thing I do see as a pattern on the different forums is that Florida ( especially the western and southernmost sections) seems to be the bottom of the barrel for karaoke income. My guess is it's not just the bad economy that all are suffering through, but the addition of the fixed income of so many retirees.

I hear about standard shows going for $75-$100 for LEGIT KJs there, and I cringe. Up where I am ( Bergen County, NJ ), we wouldn't load the transport for that much, much less do a show.

My two questions are:

1) If LEGIT shows are only getting $75-$100 bucks, what the hell are the undercutters getting??!!!

2) If they are getting less ( and I assume they are, if they're called undercutters), is that particular venue even worth fighting for?

Yes, I understand that ALL venues are important additions to income, but if a venue is willing so sell one out for $25, I just don't see them being part of a long term relationship.

Of course, on the other hand, one might also go back to my other post. If a venue is willing to sell one out for $25, it may be time to figure out why one isn't bringing in more income than others in the area, making one more important to the venue.

Please note that I said MORE income. In other words, one can't use the "economy sucks" excuse for bringing in less than or equal to others. Disposable income may be limited, but the BEST hosts will get more of whatever is available than others would- RIGHT?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The old boys network can be a near impossible thing to break into in smaller towns.
Some places will stick to what they have always had and fear change.
Some places befriend a host and feel a loyalty to them.
I have witnessed a good host get forced out because a town stuck together.
I even hired a guy who had a good following over a far superior host.

But I'm sure no one here has never had any of these problems.
Just go out and do a much much better show.

I got my moose lodge gig from just a fill in night where they hire other host to cover a special event. Their regular host on wednesday and friday draws a good crowd but his hardward and disc's are old and show it on screen.

at first I thought they were just using me to cover nights he couldn't do cause of other gigs he has, but turns out i'm being used everytime they want extra karaoke, and it sounds like they are getting ready to let him go and have me replace him. he's been there a couple years and it's time for change.

i'm on computer and use compuhost with the kiosk touchscreen setup that everyone loves, i have several singers that use their smart phones so they don't even have to get out of their seat unless it's their turn to sing.

i kinda fell into the spot cause the filler host they hired was running pirated software, and he was informed of what going on with slept tone lawsuits and he decided not to chance it. and then called me and asked if i'd fill in for him. $100 for the night is what he quoted them. so that's what i got paid.

the next time i got used by them they paid me $150 for 4hrs and the bar cuts me off at 11:30 which is really nice.

I'm just saying their are hosting spots out their and most are right it is the personality that keeps you working, not just your equipment.

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It's all good!

I agree with everything that you have posted, BUT- all of the above are either surmountable or part of running the hosting business properly:

1) How do you think the good old boy network grew? Perserverance. Another alternative is to start a new network of your own..

2) Nah. They will stick to what works and brings in money, and will fear a change from that. They don't KNOW that you may bring in more, but they DO know what they already have, and don't want to lose a sure thing.This is where SALESMANSHIP comes in....

3) The KJ may have crappy skills, but he knows his business well enough to form a great relationship with the venue. Good job on his part. Do the same. It doesn't hurt to become a semi-regular at the venue and strike up a relationship of your own for possible future use.

4) Because a TOWN stuck together???!!! I'm thinking this may NOT have been a good host. A TOWN wouldn't band against someone they liked. If he was unliked by a whole TOWN, how good a host could he have been? He may have been technically proficient, but personality is the key.

5) Um, the guy with the big following WAS the superior host. You may may have liked the other guy's style better, or he was better in a technical sense, but the best host brings in the most people and money to the venue. That's the job description.

One thing I must stress is the mention of getting jobs where other hosts work. What one SHOULD concentrate on is working ELSWHERE, and THEN getting the business and patrons that he has now.

Besides the ethical part ( gig stealing is what undercutters do. One shouldn't make a point of taking the food out of others' mouths- bad karma) taking over another host's show is an extremely uphill battle.

If the KJ was awful, you will have to work harder to bring folks into a venue that has become known for "Crappy-Oke".

If the KJ - whether "good" or not- was very popular, you will have to work even harder than in the "Crappy-Oke" situation to overcome the loyalty to the old host AND ill will toward you for taking over.

Find a place without karaoke and make it your own. Then YOU will form that great relationship with the owner. YOU will be considered more valuable, simply because the place never had the income that you bring in before. YOU will have the achievement of creating a business that never existed before. This looks VERY GOOD on your karaoke references, making it easier the next time.

Take over another place ONLY if the previous host was fired having nothing to do with you, or had quit- Preferably with some empty time in between while things calm down.

If ( and I would find this extremely hard to believe) every single possible venue in the ENTIRE work area that you have chosen already has karaoke, THEN, and ONLY then I would say that the area is at a saturation point. Either travel farther ( and charge more), wait til the herd thins, or find something else to do. Grabbing someone else's show would be worthless at that point.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'm not new to hosting, started in 1999 I think, worked a couple different locations both for a couple years at a time, then the last gig I had i was there 3yrs and watched 3 different owners run the motel bar. i had a good crowd and was very liked. even meet my current wife there.

in 2006 i ruptured a disc in my back and after 7 months of pain and an upcoming back surgery i decided to hang up my microphones.

now I'm back and still find that my previous show's singers come up to me and ask where i'm doing my show so they can come back to me.... which makes me feel great knowing I was giving them what they needed.

My show's were nothing fancy but did concentrate on the singers. I like getting up and chatting with people, and like to walk to back side of the room and listen to the sound to see if something needed adjusted.

i've found that turning down the music is just as good as turning up the singer's microphone, people just want to hear themselves.

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It's all good!

Joe, after reading your responce I am seeing the light.
You have such a grasp of what is going on.
I never saw it before but your arguments are good ones.
Feel a bit dumb now.
Way to go mate.

This thread is so frustrating...because it's true...

what i cant stand is when other karaoke hosts scout your gig or customers. only to either low ball your gig or tell your customers where they will be hosting.

my response is...when i tell my customers; there's a reason why he's looking for a gig and we're not...

we're too busy trying to maintain a fan base as well as retain the newbies.

has anyone ever experienced this?

I agree with everyone on this thread...if your the real deal...things happen...

t.

[quote="BigJer"]In my area I see very little in the way of real showmanship at a karaoke show. The better shows I've been to have people who

1) keep the music volume at a reasonable level -- you would be amazed how many want to blare the sound so loud you can't talk to a waiter or waitress to order a drink. Now does anyone else see something wrong with that picture or is "concert sound" more important than the venue selling drinks?



There are shows that do this. Depending on the crowd and the area the show is ran this way for a reason. Gives the singer that "rock star" feeling. And those crowds expect it. I will admit my shows are usually fairly loud. I leave some in the tank usually but it gets loud at my show. I've been to louder. And to me "blaring" is a poor audio system issue. I can crank mine and it doesn't hurt your ears like some systems I have heard.

One of the things I allow the owner, manager, paying customer to control at my shows is the volume. If I am new to them I will approach them very early in the show and ask what they think of the volume.

I know the loud show isn't for everyone but it is for some.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Rip, would you be willing to spend $40 on a db meter from Radio Shack just as an experiment? I'm sure you have a top system and maybe it's really that much better than what I used. In my case, using Peavey SP-5s with a Mackie 808 mixer amp, my ears eventually got fatigued when I hosted. I never realized this till I started using the meter and taking dB readings.

What I found, was that I slowly kept turning the volume up as the night went on and by the end of some evenings I might even have a bit of ringing going in my ears which is BAD because that means permanent hearing damage and who can afford that in this profession?

If you are of an open mind, set your speakers to put out 85-90 dB or so out in the customer areas, walk out and set down at a table and see how you think your system sounds at that level.

I think you're going to find your system still has plenty of oomph, and fullness to get up and dance to, but if you sit down with a friend you will find yourself also able to have a conversation or order a drink and the drinks you sell is after all what is really going to dictate whether or not the bar can afford your services.

One last point I'll raise is ethics of what you are doing to your customers when they come to see you. Check this table out... People can safely enjoy a 90 dB show for up to 8 hours without any hearing loss. Every 5 dB above that level you cut the exposure time in half. If you crank a good set of speakers with proper amping you will easily hit at least 110 dB and probably more. At 110 dB a customer should leave your show within 30 minutes to avoid permanent hearing loss.

OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure
Hours per day Sound level
8 90dB
6 92dB
4 95dB
3 97dB
2 100dB
1.5 102dB
1 105dB
.5 110dB
.25 or less 115dB

This is an effect known as "volume creep." What happens is your ears become somewhat numb to the level of sound and consequently, they will block some of that noise. Of course because now that it sounds different, you want to adjust the sound so it sounded (to you) like it did when you first started the evening. So the volume keeps getting a little louder, a little louder, a little louder as the night goes on – by the end of the night you might as well be sitting in a jet engine.

I always make sure that I am able to take a two-minute break (perhaps when a trusted singer is up and everything is all set) and get away from the speakers. When I come back, I find that the volume is incredibly loud and I will turn it back down.The best way I can describe it is "resetting the volume in my ears" and I do this so that the club staff will not have to come and tell me to turn it down or that it becomes uncomfortable to the patrons.

I actually go out of my way to make sure there is some "dead" area left in the bar so those who may wish to converse comfortably may do so.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

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No, but I would borrow one. I'm very familiar with OSHA and noise exposure. I've taken a hearing test every year (via my employer) since the late 70's. My hearing is still in tact and normal. Only been doing karaoke/dj for 2.5 years or so but loud music was always one of my hobbies. I guess I have just kept it under the limits to still have normal hearing.

Many bands are above this limit. I'm not sure where my set up rates and it would be interesting to see. Doesn't mean I'm going to turn it down to a normal talking level, at least not at venues I'm expected to bring the big sound. People shout when at a live show and at DJ shows. The people that don't want to "shout or talk loudly" simply go into our other room where it's not so loud.

To each his own. But again, the person paying me is in charge of the volume.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

You turn up the volume, and people talk louder so their friends can hear them. You turn it up more, since the chatter has gotten louder, and the customers talk louder, and even begin to shout to be heard . To a some extent, it's a cause & effect situation.......at least in my experiences.......I try to create(not find) the thresholds of music & chatter.......... could be why I suck, though....

Depends on the type of clientelle you are trying to acquire. I want the younger crowds, and louder (with nice thump) does draw them in. It's never overpowering that you can't sit & talk but it is probably alot louder for the 'typical' karaoke singer that wants to belt out Frank Sinatra or Barbra Streisand is used to. Although we do get these singers too. And yes they sell drinks!!!!!! So 'concert' sound and drink sales don't really have a negative impact if it's done in the right places.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

This is probably why your ears get fatigued, that mixer doesn't have the proper power to really push those speakers. Turning up an underpowered system WILL cause ear fatigue because it is no longer pushing a clean signal at higher volumes and the speakers tend to start sounding a little piercing and bass starts lacking a bit because they are getting more distortion & clipped signals (which can also lead to speaker failure as well). Those speakers need about 750 watts going to them at 8 ohms (just for full sonic benefit), that amp only pushes 300 watts into 8 ohms. This is the problem to the ear fatigue at the end of the night after 'creeping the volume up'. Guarantee you get an amp that pushes close to what the speaker requires, you can actually run your sound louder without the ear fatigue because the sound will be cleaner and fuller at the higher volume than it is currently at the same volume.
I also run the SP5's (bi-amped) with a QSC GX7 (725 watts per channel into 8 ohms) pushing the 15's & a Carvin DCM600 (125 watts per cahnnel into 8 ophms) pushing the horns. 1000 watts goes to a sub.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you are playing your shows at a level where people can still talk and order drinks you are probably at least close to a safe sound level. The shows I'm attempting to describe are so loud that I literally have to yell to order a drink from a waitress who has her head about 3 feet away from me and anything approaching conversation with someone at my table becomes exhausting after a few minutes.

There are several shows in town where my ears start to ring within a half hour of when I walk in the door. I'm not looking for a Frank Sinatra show, but when my ears start ringing I don't see the point of staying.

Appreciate the technical information Lonnie, if i ever go back into the bars an amp upgrade may be in order. I do have a larger carvin amp, but I'm afraid I'm getting old and fat and don't like humping the thing around so much anymore. Maybe I should just go the powered Mackie route if I ever go back in the business...

I wonder if anyne would have picked up on this if you had said "he's loyal for some dumb reason-let's see,black/white/mexican/pick a race to stereotype.... and free beer"...

My dad was Blackfoot,and never drank. I don't touch the garbage either. The heaviest drinkers I know are ...well,not American Indian.Otherwise,good post,but -That statement was pretty lame.

Ouch, good point. I'm sure he didn't mean it the way it came out, but I understand where you are coming from.

Just went to a local restaurant/bar that I did one show at for $150. I came in a week later on a Friday night and they had this guy and an acoustic guitar. He was pretty bad. I asked the owner about him and she said "he's cheap". I'm willing to bet they got him for $100 for 4 hours, maybe $75.

I went there last night for dinner(great food and reasonably priced) and I saw that they are now going to have Karaoke Wednesdays and Thursdays. I'm certain they found someone willing to do it for $100 a night for 4 hours. Now that I have experience as a performer I won't work for $100 a night. I did in the beginning because I needed experience and that was all I could get.

As far as Karaoke hosting goes, until I can afford to buy the GEM series and the Compuhost hard drive with the Chartbusters unlockable songs, I'm not going to pursue any Karaoke shows. I'm not interested in getting involved with the legal system in any way. I'd much rather do my one man singing show. It's much easier and much more enjoyable than hosting Karaoke. If I ever host Karaoke several nights per week it will strictly be for the money, not for any other reason.