Karaoke Forums

One bar we do started out as a percentage of the net bar (sales minus taxes).  It started slow and they kept renovating over three years (the stage changed places 5 times).  It slowly grew (average of about $125-$150 with some lows of $50)  and finally the renovations ended.  It has now become one of our best venues with an average of 15 singers and about 50-100 patrons.  Our average check there is $200 a peak of $300 lowest in the last 6 months $140 on a Tuesday night.   There are no signs of a slow down.  It is the best looking bar in town.

Not saying it will happen to you but it can happen.  Perserverance can be profitable.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I work as a KJ in a bar on Thurs-fri-sat, and we start at 10pm and go until 2am, and i have never had a problem like this. But you have to go by the times of the month also, when people get payed, etc, and i agree, thats not your job.

I go in, and i do my job, and i get payed for it. I get $ 75  a night, and thats no people or packed house.

I also am a waitress and know, thats if he is the owner, and the bartender, and had a few drinks while he was working...he is already in deep, so it is up to you what you wish to do. But personally if it did happen, you go for your money, if not, then i would just not worry about it.

Happy KJing

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~I don't love you because i want you, I love you because of what i see in you.~

~Tis not about life, nor is it about death. Tis about what you do with the time you are given.~

Ardis

This past weekend at my Saturday Show I had the opportunity to speak with "regulars" of the "dumb owner bar" .   It seems this Husband and Wife Owners have changed KJ's more times than their beer kegs.  They have a history of wanting immediate results and expecting the KJ to fill the bar with money spending singers.
Instead of hiring and allowing a good KJ to build a crowd they want a KJ who can guarantee "people"......  I have never meet that KJ yet .

It makes me wonder WHY some people decide to get into a business like owning and running a bar ?

I think as a BAR owner I would want the customers to be MINE( bar customers)
NOT the KJ's customers.  I would want the crowd to want to be at MY bar for other reasons including Good Entertainment......GO figure

I guess one advantage the bar owner would get out of the KJ supplying the customers, is that he would end up paying the KJ more not to move on to a new gig and take all the following with him...  go figure!  :)

   Well now, you're half right.  The bar owner would ideally like to have a place packed with their own regs who will only go there.......But then what would he need you for?

   Of course it's much easier for us karaoke hosts to walk into a bar with SOME built-in regs. However, our job, as is ANY entertainment, IS to bring in customers. THAT'S what makes us valuable!  An example: My Friday is a resaurant bar that never used to have any entertainment.  The bar would die after the after dinner hour, and they would close it the same time as the restaurant- 10:30-11:00.  It is now packed every Friday until closing- 3:00 am, with some serious drinkers- Because of ME.  I've been there three years. They just keep giving me more money_ I never have to ask. If my lady walks in, her night is free.

   Why?  Because I AM bringing in the customers they never had and making them a fortune. Am I the greatest? Nope, I'm just doing THE JOB THEY PAY ME FOR.

   All I'm saying is an owner doesn't want to pay you just to keep current customers entertained  (although keeping them drinking LATER than they would is also a moneymaker). If all of the customers would be there without you, then you are COSTING the venue money, when the venue's goal is to MAKE money.  A good Karaoke Host's goal should be to BRING IN at least 3 times their fee in sales. THAT will keep you hosting, and make you more money as well.....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I think you're confused ... A KJ's job is to provide the "entertainment"
The customers come and stay BECAUSE of the GOOD entertainment.
The BARS responsibility is to provide an atmosphere in which the KJ can work and the customers can feel comfortable.  I believe its a partnership that is required to make it succesful.  The best KJ in the world in the worst BAR will not be very succesful and vice versa.  But I stand on my opinion that it is not the KJ's responsibility to get the customers.  The KJ should take NO risk in there services ( unless agreed to) .  Of course as KJ's we ask and hope our regulars, friends and family etc all come down to our shows for support.  But we can't as entertainers make guarantees.... If a KJ makes any guarantees on who will show and who will not ...is just HOPING.

I don't know if I entirely agree here.  I agree with the best kj in the worst bar probably won't help the bar much, but I have seen some pretty bad kj's in really good clubs that are always packed - mainly college age that don't know good karaoke from bad.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yeah, but the college kids know CHEAP beer, and wherever it is the cheapest they go, espically if there is LOUD music.

I stand corrected !! --  I too have seen some horrible KJ's make a living.
But in the long run I think a more sophisticated Karaoke Crowd will go to where there is a balance between a decent KJ and a decent venue.

Now if you're talking wild drunk college kids .... where ever there  is cheap beer is a GREAT PLACE

Exactly.  Inexperienced karaoke people wouldn't know good kj's/good sound/sometimes even good selection from the bad.  A bad kj can work very steadily in a club that attracts people that don't care about the karaoke - but still want to sing/scream.  But then again, this is the kind of club that most 'good' kj's will pass on.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

  I actually think you and I agree for the most part.  The venue AND the host must BOTH be a customer attractant.  The Karaoke Host must not accept fee changes due to attendance.  But, as YOU stated, the customers walk in and stay for the GOOD ENTERTAINMENT.  In other words, WE bring them in, and a good venue helps keep 'em coming back. Thus, it IS - at least partially- our responsibility to bring in and keep customers.  We MUST make money for the bar above and beyond what a no entertainment night brings in, or we have no value to the venue.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe

Agreed !  - The entertainment in our case KARAOKE must bring in more people than usual to #1 pay for the KJ and #2 make more profit for the bar.

But I believe that the RISK of that happening should be soley on the OWNERS shoulders unless otherwise agreed to.   I despise these owners that want to cut pay at the 1st sign of a slow night.  I would like to be able to pay half my tab at these same places  :D  :D  :D

Per djdawg in Thread on Karaoke Bar Games:
I don't mean to be opening up a can of worms here but at least in MY area - not sure about yours - the karaoke faithful sometimes...sometimes mind you...have a reputation of not drinking alot.  (i.e. take up space and not a lot of $ in the register at the end of the night)   In many cases the non singing crowd buy the most liquor of anyone.                                                                              

Per Joe C


And how does that happen, Joe, when non-spending, unaccompanied, Karaoke singers are welcomed and excuses are made for them by too many (not everyone) on this forum, including people who have managed bars?  

And it's NOT simply about attendance figures; it's about money in the till!

When you go to sing karoke you are a direct beneficiary of the expense(s) incurred by the establishment that is providing the karaoke.  If I just went into the venue to eat dinner I'd be spending money.  If I just went into the establishment to drink, I'd be spending money.  If I go into the establishment to sing karaoke WHAT?  I DON'T HAVE TO SPEND MONEY? GREAT!

MY RESPONSE TO djdawg after his post:
Can you think of any other group/category of people that make it a point to go to an establishment to enjoy themselves and then intentionally avoid spending much if any money?  Can you imagine people going to a billiards parlor and asking to play pool for free since the tables are sitting there whether someone pays for their use or not?

preach on preach on! Thats what i go to work every night  believing, and thats why i get payed so well.

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~I don't love you because i want you, I love you because of what i see in you.~

~Tis not about life, nor is it about death. Tis about what you do with the time you are given.~

Ardis

AND BE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT THE NOT DUMB BAR OWNER who:

   -  Hires Kj's at a low fee (to see how things go) and never raises it
   -  Whether the fee is at issue or not, after awhile another KJ will be brought in because the owner knows/realizes that KJ's rarely have a significant following and a new KJ may introduce new people to the venue who haven't been there before.
   -  Adds another night of karaoke with a different KJ who also agrees to the bargain basement fee (because the other guy is working for that fee).
   -  Eventually, the place will get a reputation as being a good location for karaoke and, as a result, more folks will be attending more quickly than would have been the case by retaining the same KJ over the same period of time.
   -  Once that happens, the permanent KJ/KJ's can be selected.  By then, the crowd belongs to the venue.  And the unknowing kJ's, who have helped to build the karaoke business and who agreed to play in the short term for a lower fee have been kicked to the curb with no benefit to them in the short or long run.

what kills me is the cheap a&* bar owner/manager that will hire one of these flybynighters and then blame karaoke at a whole for the bad attendance/perfomance.

"I've TRIED Karaoke in the past!"

That's like saying you've driven a volkswagon or KIA, and then blaming Rolls Royce for the lack of performance, comfort, etc!

When a bar calls as to inquire of my service, the first thing I say is "Before we go any furthur, what kind of an advertising budget do you have ?"

If the stammer and stutter, I tell them that I only work with OTHER professionals. If they have no budget to advertise, that means they'll soley depend on ME for everything.

One thing I have learned over the years is this : You can't have sucessful KARAOKE without it being a TEAM effort. So if they don't want to work as a team, I just say that I'm not interested in hearing you complain about karaoke not being a money maker, when you and your bar help just want to sit on your lazy butts , and expect me to do all the work.

One other thing if you don't already, you need to start telling these bar owners this : It is NOT my job to bring the people to your club ! That's YOUR (the bar owner's) job.

My job (K/J) is to KEEP them here once they're in your establishment !

I couldn't agree more, Matt.

There are numerous venues which could easily have successful karaoke shows but are closed to the concept because of a previous bad experience with karaoke.  They look at it from the perspective that KARAOKE is to blame when in fact BAD KARAOKE was the problem (and there's LOTS of bad karaoke out there).  

Where I live there are several venues which would be ideal for karaoke but the owners tell the prospective KJ's offering their services this "but we've tried karaoke before and it didn't work for us" bit.  When you look back at what these venues had/tried to do regarding karaoke it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out why these shows didn't "work".

   OK, we are agreed on this. They pay the fee for the show-period. No gamble for us.....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I work 5 nights a week wed,thurs,friday,sat,sunday at 5 different bars in the St Louis Mo/Illinois Area and I never have to quit early or take a cut in pay there have been times when the buisness is dead and I offer to cut off early (playing 5 nights a week and working full time sometimes it is nice to leave early) but all of my bars know that weather there is 1 person there or 1000 I still get my money and that is the only way it will ever be!!!!!