Karaoke Forums

THIS is the crux of the whole problem. Somebody taking the time to help another improve in an area they love is anything BUT "negative".  It's THE MOST constructive and honorable thing one artist can do for another that wishes to improve !  It REALLY bothers me that so many view constructive criticism, or "Critique" as "negative" because assuming they do, in requesting the "Critique" they are creating a self-fulfilling ugly scenerio.. They will perceive that they are being "picked on", but in reality it's their attitude that must change..

Critique, and constructive help if an individual requests it stating that they wish to improve is the epitome of the POSITIVE interaction. If you sub for critique, receive an honest critique, and offend the well-meaning person by attacking them because they didn't throw you all roses, my thoughts are you should receive a one week sanction (suspension with no bene's) from Karaoke scene. Those that ask for the critique only to attack the well-intentioned critiquing individual are HURTING the site, adversely affecting the Critique category, and hurting morale of others that invariably are drawn into the fray. Who knows,  some might request critique knowing when they receive it they will lash out and use the well intentioned critiquer as their whipping post.. A type of camouflaged bashing..Yet some genuinely can't handle criticism unless dealt with velvet gloves, in either case, why is such a person putting themselves in a  masochistic setting asking for critique. Somehow they must learn to accept it, stop asking for it, but there's NEVER an excuse for attacking somebody giving you what you stated you wanted..  I wish people could kill the concept of "If you critique me although I've asked for it, anything but praise I get is you knitpicking to denigrate me"  how absolutely babyish.

JMHO..

If a person requests a critique, and I try to accomodate them honestly only to have them in exchange attack me..  THAT hurts.  What did I do to provoke it ?  It SHOULD not be tolerated IMHO.  I believe this might clean things up if the site became stricter with those that were offensive in this area. is it possible for the mods to remove the ability for a party to submit in "C" or leave "C" assuming a person is blatantly too jeuvenile to deal with receiving their own request, or similarly uses the "C" category as a means to throw a sucker punch ? While at times this can be "iffy", other times intent is blatantly noticeable.

Why not suspend the priviledge of accessing the Critique category in cases of those who abuse such a priviledge.  Such a person will instead receive a message "You are not authorized to participate in this category at present".

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven it wont happen until they decide that it warrants having mods in SS. At present its pretty much unsupervised.
I read the other day where Listener x has given a productive and very nice critique to someone subbing under C. I know the person he gave comment to and they have continuously bemoaned the fact that there is so much fluff on SS. Yet when given a pleasant honest opinion that same person got very defensive indeed.
Another incident was when someone who is currently banned, visited a sub of Paula's under an assumed name and told her she was full of herself and a tad patronising.
Mods should have the power to do something about situations like that however SS is the poor relation to KS I guess

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Again,  this would need to be something administration agrees to.  Having mods in the showcase who are known to be mature,  respected, and active participants NOT afraid of retaliation might not be a bad idea at all.  Even silent mods perhaps,  mods nobody needs to know even exist supervising the room, senior members of Singers Showcase who've participated for quite some time, have an established history of being stable, keeping their cool, etc.. Yet realize the problem isn't the critique category, but those who use that feature as a weapon to hurt others and themselves.

JMO..

You've brought up a very good point however.  This would also involve revising the current software as well, and ultimately it would need to be agreed upon by the powers that be. Seems a workable situation however some are of the mindset that SS is what every individual makes of it.  The fact that a few abuse certain features need not affect more than these few assuming others choose not to stoop to such babyish levels..

So,  I dunno..  You brought up a good point awhile back "perspective". Many that have been in SS for years chug-along despite the few sour grapes,  they just don't take part in that stuff.  Maybe this is the way things should be ?  In time people either get along and cope, or leave..  Self-weeding type process perhaps.. Anyway, I'm sitting up on the fence again so basically this is all useless  LMAO

Time to do something more productive.  I think I'll challenge myself to a game of chess.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

dahlin I am sure the human race evolved with cracks due to too much fence sitting hope you win your chess

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

We got into a fight. THe guy cheats  :(

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

*gasp cough choke*

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH



ok... sorry...

You would had to have been there. ;);)

Steve!!!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist giggling at this thread. =D

How the heck ya been? I heard/read/something that you actually DID sub something at some point. True? Can't believe I missed it.

Take care!! (hey, isn't Crystal due to have her baby or something?)

sebyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

i swear....i was working on this song that i'd done in the past and when i looked back in the folder i was reading my comments on it (yes i used to save them...so?)...anyway there you were and now here you are!  how in the world are you all doin'?  

crystal had a beautiful baby girl...go look up the thread in the OFF TOPIC forum...and while you're there you can bring us up to speed on your little one...

it's so great to see you again!  

OMG Seby, You haven't heard ?  So much has happened between the last time I spoke with you, and where I am now.  Tough to believe I wasn't even able to sing two years back, but to get you caught up on what's transpiring (and surely I thought somebody would've Emailed you bits and pieces of this but evidently not).  Well, I sub'd Amanda in the Showcase ("L" only of course, since I'm pretty insecure about my singing).  Two days later I received a person to person call from Tom Sholz and Jeff Neal, apparently word got out about my submitted song in the Showcase and they were begging me to help them out by filling in the remainder of this touring year for Brad Delp.  In the meantime, I foolishly agreed to do-so not realizing that this created breach of contract with my upcoming tour with Randy Bachman and a few others from "The Guess Who" this coming November, As bad as I feel (since I'd always been a big fan of Burton Cummings) for replacing him, turns out they ended up sticking with him and I instead will take the Aerosmith singing spot I was offered.
It's amazing how this stuff happens.  Here I am thinking I'm too old to go back out, and rock is for the young and energetic..and the phone won't stop ringing.  But it hasn't been a bowl of cherries by any means... During the fill in for Philip Bailey I accidently overshot a falsetto part on "September" by close to an octave and to bring you current, one of Mariah Careys friends put a contract out on me.  Apparently she's not taking the fact well at all that her band felt I express more emotion and have a better singing range and vocal timbre for handling her material.  I might just call it quits after the November concert in London stunt singing Robert Plants higher parts for him.  I'm exhausted !    Anyway good chatting with you Seby, need to catch a few hours sleep, photo shoot tomorrow in NY at 5 PM for the Holiday issue of Rolling Stone.

In same ways,  I reminisce about the old days when I had the time to post in here, and had no life.. Hard to believe though considering where I am today !

So hows your singing coming along  Seby ?  

PS.  I'd tell you a few other things that've happened but you'll be reading about them soon enough.. I'd rather stay humble at this stage lest people in here might feel intimidated by what just came so naturally for me !

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

       


 

i can tell you from a past site that ranking is death to a karaoke sites..there are sabotage possibilities from people who just dont get along..as far as when i comment, i can never give a bad comment because the effort is what its all about..i just love the fact that people take time out of there lives to sing..its the greatest thing a person can do...just like you say steven its all about fun, not about whos best..as a matter of fact, i dont think ive heard you sing kappy !! i know you are an excellant musician, i bet you are just as talented at singing !!..KAPPY..KAPPY...KAPPY

_________________
Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!

Milo, It's true,  I really couldn't sing two years back, and because I'm feeling lazy I might not make the photo shoot later so I shouldn't have hastily psyched you folks up for seeing me on the cover of the Rolling Stone this holiday season.. I just don't have the time for publicity stuff these days, my lifes become overwhelming enough.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------OK,  Now time to plant feet back on the ground


Mikey, I was singing to my tapes the other day, my favorite ballads..It just doesn't work for me. What I did notice is my ability to match pitch singing wasn't as bad as I'd beat myself up for in the past (since voice is the only instrument that you don't really get a chance to tune before the off-key mistake is made- or so it seems to me) but it's like NO instrument I've learned to play.. What I noticed about my voice is it's weak sounding, has no real heart or personality, no tasteful presence, and it sounds like a non-singer trying very hard to sing...

Tough to describe this stuff, but to me this is what I hear.. My falsetto ability is decent, but my singing voice sounds like a NON-singer trying very hard to sing.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Seby, OK, here's the truth about that "time"

       The truth is the reason I was banned from the site, is that one morning around 5 AM, I was asleep and subconsciously wanting to be able to submit a song and sing so badly I must've sleep-walked to the computer and I started subbing a song.. During the process, I woke up, realized what was actually happening, had a full-blown panic attack, and urinated in my pajamas... In a state of panic, I called Phill at home (this was about 5:45AM), he didn't pickup until around the 9th call.  Anyway apparently (and I think this is an exaggeration, I was whimpering and crying pathetically insisting that he remove my attempt from the Showcase).. I guess he found something about my behaviour a tad weird.  But the truth is,  there never really was a song anyone could hear.. Phill removed the attempt, and banished me from this site.

WHile I don't make this publically known (because some might find it weird), that's what happened.


Agreed 100%.  It's a VERY healthy thing to do, if nothing else it's therapeutic.  Problem in my case is some things that are therapeutic must be done in private behind closed doors like letting loose a loud fart.. Hence, I don't submit my therapy material.

Comments should always be friendly, I agree.  All in singers showcase should be positive and encouraginng. I just WISH those that requested critiques viewed the critique as positive and encouraging too, because a critique (not camouflaged bashing but an actual well-intended critique despite it NOT being sugar-coated is to HELP a person improve.. If a person insists they are a 10 and won't settle for less, why do they ask for the critique ?.. too many probs in the showcase with the current rank and critique sections so as you stated setting up a rank heirarchy type system converts the site into a competition but not an honest competition assuming more DID in fact want to enter into a true artistic competition. It's a political popularity back-scratching process full of immature cliquish and pack behaviour affecting outcome, not actual ability singing.) I think people feel it best to keep it light, generally and safely encouraging, and just add positive comments. Yet there are musicians singers that do wish to use this as a venue for improvement, and Karaoke should not exclude musicians, actual singers, and serious folk such as those of us that are here for NOT "JUST" Karaoke, but interactive musicianship..
I hope to become a singer. I like to attempt singing with karaoke backing, I tape it, and use that as a means of trying to self-teach.. It's working poorly, but to me A person should submit when they want to, KNOWING their needs, and if they just want others to listen, there's a place to sub, if it's just for fun, comments should be light and friendly, but critique of course HAS a definition, submitting parties have an obligation to know and respect what the term means as do those critiquing.. additionally "rank" is an option some DO NOT need to take part in.. Problem is in the showcase people NOT being emotionally honest with themselves and others.. As adults a person that submits has sole responsibility to submit in the APPROPRIATE category. There're no excuses otherwise

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

well i do love competitions, to me it's fun and relieves stress,  that in itself helps me unwind....to forget the bad things of the day....it's still a game just more of a fun game TO ME......i don't gamble but no matter what game i'm playing and i do stress it's just a game....if there's something on the line win r lose it's a lot more fun to me....

on ss it's just singing there's no one to compete with other than urself and ur own talent....knowing i can out sing 10 people does nothing for me when i also know that there r 20 more standing in line that can out sing me....so i have to say when it comes to singing, a lot is GOD GIVIN talent....some r born with it some aren't and that's the case in any field.....some have to work their butts off at singing some don't, so how can u fairly compete with those people no matter what side of the coin u fall on....

critiquing really helps me a lot whereas fluff does nothing for me....as in the case of steven critiquing me...personally i know he hears a lot more than i do and he can convey it into words whereas i can't....but there r things i can hear and i'll let you know about it if asked....i think i tend to listen for emotion in a song more than anything....did that person become 1 with the song...so to speak, r did he/she just let it rip....i also find that most of my first takes r my best takes....i'm not so much listening for being off key as i am, did you connect with that song....did you make me believe what u were saying in the song....if it's a song about being broken hearted was ur heart breaking as u were singing it? did u relate to it.....did u convince me that ur heart was breaking?  that means so much more to me than hitting all the notes, because as we all know, if ur broken hearted and so close to crying ur not really going to be dead on key, ur voice will waver and shake....there will be a tear in ur voice....

the song...WITH PEN IN HAND....Vicky Carr...omg makes me break down crying just hearing her sing it....i could care less if she had ever been on key....i wish i could get that track but i can't.....anyway....that to me is singing.....

if it's a sad song r happy song take me on the ride ur own while singing the song, u can break my heart r make me smile r laugh out loud....it's all up to u as ur singing....that may be the reason i always loved singing sad songs, to me it's easier to bring out someone's sad emotions something they can relate to more so than making someone smile....

i also believe phrasing plays a very big part in singing also, i believe it can make r break a song.... how you phrase a line or a word  makes it possible to say the same words yet can mean 10 completely different things....that's pretty powerful...it  conveys feelings r lack of feelings....

on some songs i sing depending on the words i'll turn the very last note of a word up, it's hard to explain...but it makes the word r the person singing that word much more sad....an inflexion,  it's very slight but really changes the feeling of the song a lot.....if i can think of where in a song i use it i will post it....may not help u but it helps me a lot....lord knows i need it....

soooo critique me all u want,  if someone says oh u were off key there that doesn't bother me at all, did you feel what i was saying/singing? that's what i want to know....if not i failed, if so then i'm happy...i did all i could r should do, on key r off key...

.....Billy

This is an excellent point.  You brought up before that the singer also has every right to explain to the listener, what in particular they'd specifically like the listener to pay attention to, listen for because most at least roughly know what many of their strengths and weaknesses are.. When somebody says "Critique me", it nebulous.. Critique what ?  The style ? What are you trying to do with this song? etc.
That's an excellent point, it should be more of an interactive process... Singer has EVERY right to ask questions, request the listener pay closer attention to certain areas, etc.. Singers much of the time can even roughly critique themselves (doesn't need to be objective, just a rough listen to detail) by re-listener to certain aspects IMHO... anc compare what they hear, to what others hear..




Agreed,  Not losing perspective is VERY important.. We joined here to have fun, to interact, not to create real-life crises.  Singing can be the same way.. I wish I knew how to not take it personally when I don't place in contests though.. Or should I say TOO personally.

It's interesting Billy, because in my case I NEVER feel I did "well enough", I have a very tough time believing ever "I did the best I can do", it's more along the lines of feeling when all is said and done, "I could have done better"...  I'm pretty tough on myself.. When I love something as much as I love music, I'm actually afraid of not winning..

I do recognise this is *MY* issue, and for this reason until I ease up, I don't compete in areas I really love.. I suppose I see some things as I shouldn't meaning, in my mind, if a person wins, it makes that person "Better than me" assuming the competition is in an area where I spill my heart, soul, and all efforts.. I realize this is a very negative thing, but I'm having a tough time changing my perspective.. I'd have no problems competing in an area where I'm not good for fun, like golf.. I'd go in knowing (as would most around me) that if I hit the ball in the correct general direction, I'm doing the best I can... THAT would be fun... But in an area where I've spent so much of my efforts in my life I really have a fear of not winning...I suppose I never gave myself permission to not be "the best" at what I do.. Intellectually of course I know this, but I get like many in Singers Showcase too I suppose... I might realize in the real world I'm around a 6 at what I do..  But due to emotional need, I cling onto the fantasy of the 10 and want to frame it...

For many of us I suppose,  It's tough emotionally NOT to "win" (whatever that means) whether its a popularity contest, pure skill event", relationship conquest" etc.. Some of us have ego issues, insecurities I suppose, and for people (and I'm not exempting myself, HOWEVER I know better than to get myself into situations that are potential sources of problems) I think this is how we run into problems with a rank system.. we take ourselves TOO seriously, get too into stuff, and set ourselves up for hurt feelings..  You have a very healthy outlook, that's grounded in how things should be...  Some of us have a really unstable inner child that might not even know it's going to throw a wicked tantrum if it doesn't place as a "10" when so-and-so got a 10.... Strange I suppose, but there're babyish aspects of many of us that just don't outgrow ego areas...  I'm trying to learn to deal with this every day..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Is it possible that some of us must learn the proper mindset, and HOW to compete ?  It's interesting, in our schools, and our upbringing (I've mentioned this before) everything is about getting an "A", I was punished for "C" grades which are average... Take the Kennedy kids,  in their upbringing "You don't lose" "you must win",  losing was never an option... Many of us never learned that it's OK to be average or worse in something we are expected to be "good" at..  I never learned that I'm not a failure if I don't rank in the top 10 out've a contest of 50... I wish our society spent more time teaching us, and less time paying JUST lip-service to "It's OK to be average because most of us ARE just that in varying degrees", because when we grow up, the average grade IS NOT looked at well by most... Aren't we taught that winning is what matters ?  So we sort've need to learn to transcend that mindset ? and form our own values ?  FOr me this is TOUGH...



An interesting example is smoking and drinking as we discussed Billy, While I VERY well have learned, that people might slip, and should not be devastated by a slip... and I've dealt with my own slips at times LONG ago... MAYBE this is why so many feel defeated when they quit for a few weeks or months, and have a setback and start up again full blown... Do you think it's similar to my feeling defeated in competitions with others ?  I just don't feel when I don't win, that if I try again I CAN win ?  I don't understand it... I do feel beat up so easily when I lose...

I know intellectually not placing first or second need not mean *losing* but I don't feel it for some reason. But look at a few in this room that are no longer here... They FREAKED when they realized that even if they sang well, it didn't mean people were willing to rank them TOP.. I agree this is THEIR problem however.  I feel people must know their own boundaries... Those that like to compete should, those of us that are learning HOW... assuming we do at some point probably shouldn't YET..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[quote="Steven Kaplan @ Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:07 pm"]Is it possible that some of us must learn the proper mindset, and HOW to compete ?  It's interesting, in our schools, and our upbringing (I've mentioned this before) everything is about getting an "A", I was punished for "C" grades which are average... Take the Kennedy kids,  in their upbringing "You don't lose" "you must win",  losing was never an option... Many of us never learned that it's OK to be average or worse in something we are expected to be "good" at..  I never learned that I'm not a failure if I don't rank in the top 10 out've a contest of 50... I wish our society spent more time teaching us, and less time paying JUST lip-service to "It's OK to be average because most of us ARE just that in varying degrees", because when we grow up, the average grade IS NOT looked at well by most... Aren't we taught that winning is what matters ?  So we sort've need to learn to transcend that mindset ? and form our own values ?  FOr me this is TOUGH...

steven? to me there's a lotta different ways to win and lose...i do believe it's all in how u look at things......growing up i was very shy, shy about everything but mostly singing, NO ONE EVER heard me sing, even as a kid i knew i could sing very good, not bragging but most of my talent is god givin and to say i suck at singing is kind of a slap in the face to god, if u know what i mean.... thinking i was as good as i thought i was, scared me put pressure on me, because i couldn't just sing like other kids i had to sing a lot better...so i thought....i had the talent i had to use it...r look like a fool....i think i was around 9 then....but realizing there's a lot better singers than me out there helped me a lot, took the pressure off, i agree most of us know how good and how bad we really are....i say that then i think of american idol....so i don't know....i never brag on my singing because i do know there's a lot better out there and most times u don't have to travel too far to find um...so that keeps me straight in my thinking.....ya'll speak of ranking and how little it means yet to me we all have OUR idea how good/bad we really are.....for me i honestly think i'm a hmmm solid 8.....sometimes a tad more sometimes a tad less....i'm happy with that number, it's not a 10, so?  i hear 10's and think lordy there great....now what others think of my singing is completely different....i'm sure the numbers vary up and down, as they should.....an 8 to me is not failing, the sayin' BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE, is very true....and i  feel i am....i have my good days bad days....we all do....that's the great thing about the game of golf, it will humble you....1 day u can do no wrong the next day no right....such is life....r u a loser the day things r going wrong?? no...

steven you said u don't like using the word....Judge.....i don't like the word Loser r Winner....because both can vary so much....and can mean different things to everyone....





you use the word DEFEATED, LOSER, WINNER a lot....try to find other terms to use...try to think of it differently....i entered a singing contest once, about 40 singers, they called the top 4, i wasn't in that group.....i believe i was way down the list ....that's happened twice, last time was a karaoke contest, they called up the top 10, i wasn't in that group....the song i sang was Georgia, a song i feel i do pretty good, and most people like the song and know it....did i lose? yep...did it bother me? nope....altho they had very good judges, i found out later a few mistakes i made from the guy that won....he told me....the mistake i made was being number 4 to sing...the judges were sober they were scoring lower just in case someone better did get up....later on that night i noticed the judges were justa rockin', having a great time really enjoying the singing, altho they weren't as good as some before them.....now? was i a loser? no way...i felt i did that song as well as anyone in there could have, what more could i have done given the chance? short of buying the judges more drinks i'm not sure....nothing i guess....but what the guy that won said made sense, and next time i will wait till later to sing....i won't sing it any better r different but the odds r i would place in the top 10...that's not bad....so no way do i feel i was a loser, i gave it my best....and for different reasons sometimes our best isn't good enough....doesn't make us a loser....truth is i won that night because i learned a lot, i honestly think being honest with ur talent as in YOUR talent steven goes a long ways....you know enough about music to know where u stand, now if u admit it r not is different, but u do....if u think u r an 8 and ur playing to an 8, where someone else is playing to a 10, because they r a 10 how hr u a loser?  ur just not where he is YET.....and the thing is there will be people that will honestly feel ur playing is a 10, and mean it....be true to urself....then i don't feel u will ever be a loser...as i did, i think ur putting too much pressure on urself....again do as i did say the hell with it, get drunk and sing/play....l...JMSO ....Billy

Billy.  You've brought up fabulous points !  It's all about being honest with ourselves. If we know where we stand, enter into a contest knowing how we stand, and we don't place unreasonable expectations on ourselves we really can't lose UNLESS we are wannabe 10's that are actually rusty 6's trying to compete with the honest 8's (which are about as good as any can be given about a 30 song average IMHO).. we can make mistakes but that's not life threatening.. and we do the best we can... Considering the following example which is absolutely true as well meaning in the case of the Georgia contest you mentioned these judges were just in a different mood or slightly altered from substance as they had a few drinks in them, a little higher and looser as they got further down the list of singers and were more rigid and reticent at the beginning of the competition.. They were feeling happier and more generous and personable at the times you weren't singing.  It's subjective I suppose..

"Be all you can be"..  

Agreed. Which means similarly I must own up to the fact that I allowed myself to slack, stop practicing, and realize that currently I'm no longer in the category of performing musician, that takes work.

Billy, Here's a question.. You are a good singer, there's little doubt about that.. Assuming you decided to not work on your singing for sometime... Do other stuff, and felt you were rusty and perhaps no longer the 8, but perhaps because you just lost interest for awhile might've slipped to a 6...  Would you perform knowing you are somewhat rusty and likely a 6 ?  Would you be willing to perform as a 6, or would you work hard and wait until you felt you were an 8 again before submitting?or at least perhaps a 7 ?  OR,  in the case of "God Given" (since instrumental technique is something we can get rusty at when we stop working at it).. Maybe singing is different ?  I don't know short of physical probs though... At what level would you wish NOT to share what you do ?   My feelings are that when I perform something, even though there are better folks out there, What I display should be something I'm proud enough of to share, that's how I am.. I can love music, but realize that I'm not polished enough to perform anything.  I think some people feel "It doesn't matter how good you are", and I believe this is true, but shouldn't a person feel proud of what they submit ?

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

...


yes i would steven, reason being is that like you i'm no longer doing it for money, it's all fun now, i am what i am, at the time, sure i would love to be an 8 everytime i got up but i'm not so if i did lay off for a while and was slipping it really wouldn't bother me....now i'm not saying i would want to make a fool of myself but steven it's relax time now for both of us, kick back and enjoy, we had our time, more than some less than others, relax the pressure's off, let ur hair down , no one looking and were not gonna get fired if we screw up....

but singing is different to some degree i feel than playing.... this is how i feel i may be wrong....but i feel when i'm singing people r listening but they're not hanging on every word...they're not listening for mistakes they're just hopefully enjoying it....but when a guitar player takes the lead, it's all on him...he's really standing out, all lights r on him....i don't feel that way when singing, altho i could be wrong, and maybe thinking that way is what relaxes me.....i do know one of the reasons i quit singing was the fact that i no longer felt anything when i got up to sing, it was just a job, i wasn't nervous i wasn't scared r excited...justa job...you couldn't tell it from looking at me perform but thats' how i felt....so i quit, i enjoy singing now so much more than i did then....i'm not just talking karaoke i really don't sing that much at karaoke...but when i record.....

there comes a time when it's ok to be average and when you don't have to work so hard at it.....

now when i was singing in the group i wanted everything right, we had to be on....and we gave it our best....there was no slacking then....but that was then this is now....wouldn't u just love to play just for the fun of it without fearing people were judging u on what u used to do? well the truth is they're not judging you, you are....i feel ur creating all ur pressure all ur stress, from what used to be ...i feel playing music is much harder than singing on you, it's harder to stay in shape....u have to play constantly to  stay good....singers don't,  a few warm ups we're ready to go pretty much....ur fingers have to bleed to get back where you were.....be content with where u r now....and if u can't be then work at getting better but be content until u get there....

if i felt no one would hear me sing unless i was at my best, no one would ever hear me sing....those days r few....i feel anyway.....most of the songs i sub on here i feel r way short of what i could do if i worked at it....but my days of working at it r over, all about fun now, heck with working.  do i record thinking ok its good enough for SS....no not really but i know before i sub it i can do better....case and point....last song i subbed....u r so beautiful, i was flat a few times on there....if u listen it's there, but it's also where i felt it called for emotion and i felt it didn't matter as much me being off kinda added flavor to me....but before i would have never let that go past me....there's plenty of things like that....i guess i'm a lazy singer now....i do what makes ME happy what I feel sounds good instead of trying to please the masses, all about fun now...enjoying what i do....and if that means i don't sing a song perfect well that's ok with me....

i'm sure u can pick up ur guitar and play something thinking my god that sucked, but it sure was fun....tha'ts where i'm at, the difference being i don't care what others think now i'm secure in my singing, and if i'm a 5  are a 6? well i know i used to be an 8.....so i'm secure in that also.......

after reading ur comment again. u speak of performing, would that be in a group? r karaoke also r recording?

in a group i would wait 'til i was an 8 again, r as close as i could get,
if just karaoke r on here?  then i'm not going to work hard at it...again that's why 95% of my recordings r 1 takes....heck i even sing wrong words most of the time...l....it's all for fun......

so let me hear ya having fun steven....

steven I am subbing a carpenters song...backed off the reverb somewhat. If you could take a listen and give your opinion sir would be much appreciated

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."