Karaoke Forums

Jreynolds said:
I would say both but I think there are a few more advantages from a business standpoint for the KJ and you touched on a few.

One of the biggest arguments most kj's have against a kiosk is that they believe they are more expensive than books. I would have to argue against that point for several reasons although admittedly, the initial cost may be more than a set (or two) of books.

For a KJ with a decent size library and a standard "book software" output, how much would you estimate a set of 15 books would cost on a per book basis? $12 each? $20 each?

This is assuming of course that the KJ is NOT stealing the copying at work -- or someone else's work -- that they are either printing the pages themselves or having a service print them. THEN, purchase the sleeves and binders and spend how much time stuffing them trying to make them beer-proof? Hours and hours once a year.

Adding a few update sheets during the year is a fairly minimal cost as is replacing a few wet sheets here and there so we'll simply call that "maintainence."

Unless you're using scrap paper, you also have to deal with the request slips themselves; do you print and cut them or does a service do that for you? Golf pencils run approx. $6.35 a gross at the office supply and how many of those will you go through in a year? Or do you use pens?

The entire costs of using books is actually quite high when you factor in all these seemingly insignificant "nickle and dime" costs (like driving to the office supply store to get pencils/pens). Personally, I got really tired of losing a $20 book to a $2 beer, chasing pencils, slips and books at the end of the night(s) and watching some idiot tear a corner off a page to write a "booty call number" on it instead of using a song slip.

The cost of a kiosk initially is higher than perhaps a set of books when you calculate the computer (which you can get really cheap or free, a method to transport it - meaning whether you use a microwave cart or a 2-wheeler - the software and (okay I'll bite) an extension cord. You also have to decide if you want to use a regular CRT screen (anywhere from free to practically free), or an LCD flat screen (getting cheaper every day) for ease of transport, OR -as in my case - an LCD flat touch screen (about $80 - $100 on ebay used).

Why would you want to do this if it's this expensive? Simple. Just look at what you no longer have to do over and over again:

NO binders
NO printing
NO sleeves
NO stuffing
NO pencils or driving to buy them
NO slips to print, cut etc.
NO little flashlights (if you use them)
NO printing updates (1 click & you're updated)
NO stuffing the updates you just printed into even MORE sleeves
NO chasing pencils and slips and books at the end of EVERY night
NO impossible-to-read song slips turned in with the wrong numbers on them
NO shuffling slips around etc.

In my case, I roll in the cart, plug it in, turn it on and I'm done with the entire book issue altogether.

Sometimes it's worth a little more money up front to make your life a lot easier everyday for the long run.

ExWeedFarmer said it best when he simply said; "Once you use one you'll never use books again."

c. staley, you said a mouthful. Beautifully put.

Really guys, if you haven't tried kiosks you are really missing something. The drawback is lugging them around and a little extra setup. The big advantage is the extra time you have during the show to personally attend the patrons and drink.

AutOkdj and Sacks-O-Nuts both have kiosks and they are complete hosting packages as well. They are freeware and begware. Dig the computers out of the garbage and use the free software and your books cost you nothing with all the advantages c. staley listed.

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Okay, who took my pants?

For those of us that play small venues, we can't get away without books. There simply is not enough space for kiosks with keyboards and a mouse.

When touchscreen terminals become more affordable, which they sort of have, then I might look at this. But keyboard/mouse is just too much to carry around. And takes too much space. I believe laptops will walk off and have durability issues.

If I had space, and could keep a computer at the venue, this would make some sense for me.

The ideal thing would be one of those video games that had a karaoke kiosk mode!

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

mckyj57 give it a try. I have used kiosks in some tiny bars and it was always well received. Good guess about the games, that's how I got the owners to let me leave the kiosk computers in place. As for touch screens... pretty much everyone knows how to use a two button mouse these days. The way I had my kiosks rigged there was no keyboard, I entered the singer's name the first time and they selected it from a dropdown list there after. That was my own personal setup though.

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Okay, who took my pants?

I remember the olden days when karaoke was done with eight tracks and printed song sheets. When the Laser discs (and later CDGs) came out, all us singers moaned about how bad that was going to be. For a while, the shows with sheets and 8s did well until the need for more up to date music presented itself. The only way to get the new stuff was to go digital. I remember shows that featured both formats, but even those gave way to all CDG. I think some of us are just afraid of the next big thing.

Chip, you make for a GREAT arguement for kiosks my friend!

Upon looking at receipts over the years for karaoke books and all the expenses involved, the "pride" i have in the appearance of my books doesn't justify the costs involved anymore...according to my wife.

The costs of printing/sheet protectors/pencils has added up to A LOT MORE than i thought it was... (btw, i'm more of a convenience guy than a cost watcher- pay for it/get it done).

But the wife wants to start a family so she's watching all of our expenses now. She is now the Captain, and I, the lowly Lt. Commander.

I have been seriously thinking about going with CompuHost lately because of the many recommendations here from youz guys and girlz, (esp mckyj57), and might as well make my way into the new millenium, although 8 years later, and do a complete computer package, so to speak.

I currently have been running jb-199 and honestly love it, but want to expand, automate rotation, bring down the weight, and customize a few things.

With the low price of computers nowadays, and black friday deals already leaked, i can now justify my "silly karaoke purchases" TO MY LOVING WIFE, as we are saving money for a new single family home (no more condos!) and then starting a family before "she gets too old", .

Thanks again (Mahalo) for posting all the benefits of using a kiosk. I'll be contacting you when i go that direction. Warmest Aloha! J.R.

My kiosk is a slim-line lenovo which is chained to a table leg.

Along with it, I have an Acer monitor, a water-proof keyboard and a mouse. That's it. It all fits in one bag.

I can bring a folding table (and chair), when need be, for it.

Aside from providing our complete song list, my kiosk allows folks to hear the track before they sing it. What I'm working on now is building a parallel library of originals so they can be listened to as well, if so desired. Length of listening is limited to 3 songs, one minute each (whether original or karaoke version)

I still put out books but if they are incomplete or torn it no longer matters. Furthermore, my wife can use her laptop or the kiosk to answer questions about what we have without having to disturb me at the show computer.

While the jury is still out on the kiosk due to my long hiatus from doing shows, I believe now that we are "back", the kiosk will exceed my expectations when we are completely up to speed with it.

I still use request slips and find it's no big deal as to cost and time in printing them up!

Thanks Eric....any pics of your setup? Have you seen anyone using a laptop for a kiosk or are they too fragile? I wouldn't wanna ruin my macbook......

JR

I have not taken any pictures of it yet. Perhaps my wife will do that for me this afternoon?

Since mine is the only Kiosk I am aware of in S. florida and the only "one" I've every seen, I cannot comment about the use of laptops. I wanted something that would be "sturdier" than a laptop and unlikely to be stolen!

Again, I do not use the kiosk to assist me in managing the rotation. Having rotations that don't exceed 15-20 on average and usually are smaller, the kiosk wouldn't IMHO provide me enough benefit to set up a network.

While I know that Autokdj and Sack o Nuts supports kiosks, I don't really understand how they, or any other hosting software, interfaces with the kiosk. Lastly, I don't want to get into establishing the network required by kiosks that aid in managing rotations.

On impulse I bought this and wish Ida looked at the specs first (slow CPU). I think though with more mem and bigger HD , win 2k PRO it might work for half-arsed search comp. Even if it did walk off I wouldnt be losing much. Gawd this is from the old Win 3.0 days. Thoughts??

lappie


Here is the one I'm really interested in . I use a presario V5115 and I THINK I can fix this one for almost nothing..


lappie2

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Fears of damage to the kiosk, walking off, hogging issues, etc. etc. are all answered by making the singer supply the "terminal" / client machine -- their iPhone or other brand semi-smart phone

For the record, this thread was started for the sake of discussion. Personally, I'll be doing books-only for quite some time while this technology matures and other people work out the bugs. But I know that my next leap will NOT be to kiosks, but rather smart-phone web access AND printed books for the transition period and over-40 folks.

I'm a high-tech guy who believes that low-tech OFTEN has the advantage (ease-of-use or reliability or speed or all three)

cheers

I think it is a wonderful idea, but I'll admit I don't think I'll ever use them.

I just can't see dealing with the extra expense or headache of up keep when I don't have to. I take my hat off to those of you who use them because I think it is a nice thing to do for your customers when you don't have to. I also think it is a great way to look more professional than the competition.

I'd love to go to a show that uses them, but it wouldn't make me want to go there just because they do. But that's me.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Well... not everyone either has a semi-smart phone or even the knowledge to use one if they have it...



I think you'll find that your books will be used far more than any web access in a club where a singer will just walk up to you and say "Do you have....???"

Babs Said:


I think this is one of the "great misconceptions" regarding kiosks. Yes, there is an added expense, but one time only. After the set up, there is no added expense, or should I say no recurring added expense.

It's actually less of headache than books... I don't have to chase it down at the end of the night, much less pencils and wayward slips.

And it's really not "a nice thing to do for your customers" although from their perspective it's all about them.... It's actually a LOT less work for me.

Yeah, what he said. I agree completely with c. staley.

This is not a new technology, this is not a fragile technology, this is not a spendy technology.

The junk computer will cost less than one book and take the place of ten. The software can be had for little or nothing. Updates are instant and free. Except for the bulk there is no downside. Try it you'll like it!

It has been my experience that the lappy will not work. It's too light and tends to find its way to the floor and the computer is under the keyboard. It you get a beer spilled on a desktops's keyboard it's no big deal but spill a beer on the lappy and it's toast.

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Okay, who took my pants?

exweed, your signature cracks me up everytime i read it!

...WHY NOT a lappy with another keyboard covered in plastic?....chained to a table?

...go ahead and laugh......

I have seen stations where everything was covered with plexiglass 2 holes for access to the keyboard and mouse.

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Here are pictures of my Kiosk. Again, the keyboard is waterproof. And while I don't think any part of it can be easily stolen, there is cable with a lock that wraps around the monitor and connects to the computer. The second picture shows the lock![/img]
PS: While I agree that a junk computer could be used for a kiosk, I couldn't find an inexpensive slim line computer and that's what I wanted! What I have is light-weight and fits into a carry-on luggage bag

Cool Stuff Eric! Thanks for posting pictures!

So what is involved (or how involved is it) and/or required to set up a wireless kiosk at both the singer station & the host station? Obviously a printer of some sort at the host station, I already have a computer that could be adapted at my booth & probably an old desktop I have to piece back together.
How much are the touch screens?
Is the song selection what I actually list in the book as I do not list duplicates, however might in something like this for a more complete option or would it display all songs of any disc I listed - I also pull out all songs with any profanity.

I might want to give it a shot, 1 terminal along with my books. If it did go over, how easy is it to add 2nd, 3rd, etc...?

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First of all, since you're in the same club 7 nights a week, do you really need wireless? Do you expect to be moving it around or do you just want the ability to move it around?

In either case, it won't matter much, you can pick up a wirless card (refurbished) for less than $30 anyway for your kiosk. If you want to check it out wired first, I'm sure your computer already has a net adapter anyway. Try it wired first, then spend the bucks to go wireless if you want it... it's certainly optional.

To understand the concept of wireless networking, there are a couple of different ways to set up a network; infrastructure and "'ad hoc."

Infrastructure requires a single router that acts as the traffic cop and postmaster, all messages from one computer to another go first through the router. A wireless router will give you an effective range of approx. 300 ft to your kiosk. Attach the router to your hosting computer. (my preferred brand is DLink and not Linksys)

"Ad Hoc" doesn't require a router, each computer finds the other on its own and although it sounds like a better way to go, IMHO it is not. No traffic cop or central point...

You don't have to use a touch screen monitor, but if you want one to avoid a keyboard and mouse, figure a used one on ebay will run you right around $100. Touch screen monitors have a secondary cable that is either a USB connection to the computer or a 9-pin serial cable. I have both types of touchscreens; a "CRT serial" and an "LCD flat touch monitor USB." The CRT sits at a club, the LCD is mobile. Touchscreen monitors require a software driver that you can download (free) on the net. These work by simply converting where you touch the screen into something the computer sees as a "mouse click." Keep in mind that a touch screen monitor is useless if the software you're going to use doesn't have a touch screen interface.



I can't speak for other software as I'm not familiar with them however, with the one I am familiar with, you can control what is available on the kiosk. Since the software simply imports an Excel text (".csv") file, it's up to you what's in it or out of it. You also don't need a printer... the requests pop up on your hosting computer's screen in a window that floats above your hosting software. Think of it as an Excel grid of electronic song slips sorted in time-order. A virtual "song slip pile" as it were.

I also don't know about other software in regard to the number of kiosks you can run at one time, but with the one I do know, the limitation is on your network, not on the software and with a typical wireless router, you'd be able to put one at every chair at every table in your club and have no problem.

So assuming you have the computer for a kiosk, in your case, you'll need:

1. touch screen monitor (optional)
2. Wireless Router (usually has 4 wired connectors also)
3. Wireless net adapter (optional)
4. Software (with touch screen interface)

What you put it on and how you move it around is entirely up to you.