Karaoke Forums

These are "givens" for me, personally, before I will return to any karaoke venue:
- Fair rotation
- Good audio mix
- Can sing at least 3x during evening

After those requirements, in order of importance, I must consider the following:
- A place where my wife, a non-singer, will enjoy herself
- Clean (it must be for my wife's enjoyment)
- Good people to socialize with
- A dozen or more singers
- Reasonably good karaoke selection with some new material
- Opportunity to sing to my own CD's
- Good food/reasonable prices

pretty simple, no?

The personality of the KJ. Hands down. Gracious, efficient, has control of the room and rotation.

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See/hear the serial version of Michael's karaoke novel, "Outro," at outronovel.blogspot.com

Gotta play custie's discs. PERIOD.

If you can't I may pop in to checkout your deal one time.

But I WON'T, I REPEAT WON'T be back(and I become a LOYAL long-term custie--and I'm talking for YEARS here, along with my friends that I would bring and their friends that they would bring.) which means MUCH LOST BIZ TO THE BAR OVER A LONG, LONG TIME FRAME-which the bar owner couldn't POSSIBLY be pleased with.

All because the KJ wouldn't play a custie's CDG. Seems pretty silly huh?

An prime example is a place called GRAMMA's that's just 2 blocks from my house-I'd walk to Karoaoke!!. I used to go there every other weekend as the KJ there played my discs. I've followed him around for years now from place to place and recommend ALL my karaoke-interested friends to go see him. The place recently changed KJ's so I stopped in to check the new guy. I asked if he could play my disc--he said his CDG drive on his lappy was broken. OK so I gave him the benefit of doubt and came back a couple months later. Same routine. So I gave up on him. Haven't been back in a year and a half. And this used to be my favorite place to hang for Karaoke. I still drop in for lunch on a Saturday afternoon once in awhile as the burgers are quite good. But no more Karaoke there. LOST LONG-TERM MONEY for them(and yes I do know the owner).

KJ's are there to MAKE THE BAR MONEY and KEEP AS MANY CUSTIES IN THE PLACE FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE(not just for one night but a LONG-TERM FOLLOWING FOR THE BAR).

"Oh its MY SHOW and I'll run it how I WANT". Well, that may be true to some extent---but its the bar owners bar THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY FOR. That's the MAIN PRIORITY. And if you're running custies off simply because of your own EGO(and lets call a spade a spade here--as this whole subject DOES BOIL DOWN TO KJ EGO) by not being willing to allow custies discs and MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY, then that bar owner has a REAL PROBLEM and you are COSTING HIM MONEY, LONG-TERM MONEY (and who knows how much that would add up to over time)

There are MANY KJ's I've been going to see for YEARS now. They always are able to play my discs. I used to pop in on Matt's show regularly because he would play my discs because he simply didn't have my songs. If he did then I used his computer selections. I ALWAYS PREFER to use the KJ's selections so to save wear and tear on my discs. There are a number of KJ's here in Portland who can't, won't, aren't willing to, don't believe in it or whatever. Haven't been back to see ANY of them ONCE. NOT ONCE. Hence, those bars have lost my $$$ for all those YEARS and my guests, friends and reccomendations to other people who ask me where's a cool place to go see. More $$$ LOST.

C'mon, WAKE-UP. It's NOT HARD TO HOOK UP A SPARE CDG MACHINE, THREE WIRES AND A SWITCH. You don't even have to route it into your lappy/computer. just plug it into the mixer and the main video!! And the new cdg/dvd machines are inexpensive, lightweight and don't take up much room. Simple stuff!!

I don't bring my discs because I want to SHOW-UP, belittle or humble the KJ or MAKE him play my discs. It's because they DON'T have my songs, or versions or labels and probably never will! Mine are ALL store-bought and I keep them in good physical shape. Sometimes I'm the only one with my own discs at the show. Other times other people also bring thier own.

And NO, 99% of KJ's out there DON'T have the obscure stuff I sing. If they DO then I'm like WOW!! JOY!! RAPTURE!! And then I go buy them a SHOT OF THIER FAVORITE LIQCOUR ON MY TAB!! They just won a LONG-TERM LOYAL CUSTIE who will return and WILL reccommend thier place to others!

To my mind there simply IS NO VALID EXCUSE OR REASON for not making provision for and allowing custie's own discs. Particularly if they are in good physical shape and are store-bought.

END OF DISCUSSION.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Swing:

Before I go further, let me restate that I started in the business with both a computer and a deck. Both can play CDG's and I carried an extra external drive in case my computer drive was on the fritz. So, in short, I encourage people to bring their (preferably original) discs

Now, I must say that the tone of your last post left me feeling I was listening to a different member's rantings on the same subject.

Aside from the tone (somewhat ominous/threatening) of you post, I must emphasize that your statements reflect your opinion and may not be true as to "facts" reflected therein. There are only two facts known to you: You are no longer attending the shows that don't play your discs and that you know the owner of one of those venues.

And while you know for a fact how you and your "friends" will spend your money, the following statement include a good deal of conjecture on your part!


Regarding the preceding, I must consider the possibility that the new KJ will draw many more new people to the venue than the venue lost when you and your friends decided to go elsewhere. It's a real, and universally, unprovable theory. In some cases a venue gains with a new KJ and in some cases they lose. And the circumstances change with venues, KJ's, days/nights of the week, seasons of the year, sports games and the like. I don't have a crystal ball and when a show fails even hindsight is not ALWAYS 20-20

It also appears, Kurt, that you believe the following about ALL KJ's who don't not play customer's discs and the consequences of their actions]


Any KJ who doesn't know by now that the owner/manager of the venue who hired him/her had an economic incentive for doing so, isn't likely to have the sense to do much of anything right in running their business.

And, no... the whole issue doesn't boil down to ego.

I know ego has nothing to do with my partner not wanting to play discs. And I'll reiterate that he is unconcerned because he rarely gets a request to do so! It's that simple.

With that fact in mind, I ask anyone who believes that every KJ who doesn't play customer's discs are having a negative effect on the bottom line of the venue to explain to me in quantifiable financial terms how much that is and how it happens?

I've encountered KJ's who just can't seem to keep the rotation straight
I've encountered KJ's who just don't care about keeping the rotation straight
I've encountered KJ's who start your song and walk away to socialize, almost everytime. So.. if it's the wrong song, wrong audio mix, they're not on top of it
I've encountered KJ's who play too much bumper/filler music IMHO

And the preceding are all attributes that can permanently chase me, and many of you, from a show. And when I don't return to a show, I have voted my opinion.

However, the KJ's I have described run (economically) successful shows. I'm not about to tell them what they should change or complain about those needed changes to the owners. If the show is not achieving the goals of the owner, I am sure the owner doesn't need me to explain why a change is needed!

AND consider that I have had customers hand me their discs:
- without ever looking at my book
- whose preferred version is, in fact, in my data base
- who have discs that sometimes don't load up (on my equipment)
- that are of poor quality (audio or video)

Lastly, other KJ's have noted how there are those who come with a binder of 100 or more discs that they peruse all night, attracting attention from others in the audience, some of whom are curious what songs they might have and if they could "borrow" a disc to use that evening. If you want to bring discs, what's wrong with 10-20? I usually bring 10 or less!

And while I try to accommodate singers with discs, I RESPECT the decision of KJ's who have reasons for not doing so. And when I run into such a show that doesn't play discs, I look over the song book to see what I might enjoy singing before walking out. And I don't just look for the very same songs I carry with me on my discs.... I LOOK FOR whatever else there IS that I might enjoy singing!

Most important to me is Host and crowd. I have been to places with great sound and singers that just bore the, uh, are boring.

I go out to have fun. Good people are most important. So long as it's not sounding like AM radio on a blown speaker I'm fine with the sound or the singers.

I don't!

If they won't play my discs, original or otherwise, then I won't give that venue my money.

I can understand the "burns", even though I don't agree with it. But that's based on a stance of "theft" concerns (i.e. downloading illegally) . Doesn't make their stance RIGHT in my book, but at least I can understand it. I'll respect that.

There's NO reason that's viable for not playing a customer's original disc.

I don't play CDG's for the very same economic reason as another posted here. When I started buying my karaoke discs, I never even owned a player. I bought them because the show I used to attend wouldn't update their library and they were songs I wanted to sing. They were used eclusively at that show (the only one around at that time).
Later on, I learned how to rip them into computer and started to view them at home that way. Again, I never owned a standalone player. I finally broke down and bought a cheapy to hook up to the TV just for kicks. It's still the only one I have at this time.

When I finally decided to host, I just used my computer, as that's what I've been using all along. Now as to using software, I could, but it also means possibly taxing out my system and having it possibly crash due to too much going on at the same time. I use winamp and autokdj for my regular karaoke. Although I do have power cdg, if I run both programs at the same time, I am seriously risking something going wrong.
Now as to why I don't have a proper stand-alond disc player:
I have NEVER needed one. I have had ZERO (count 'em - ZERO!) requests from ANYBODY, even people that I know that own their own discs to play them. They do like Eric and choose something they might like to try that maybe they don't already own.
Now can you tell me why, from a business standpoint, I would make the ependiture on something I have never needed before? My bookeeper (me, incidentally ) would go nuts!
As some on here have said, I MIGHT get one person in who wants me to play their disc, but it hasn't happened yet, and I am hardly going to go spend hundreds on something I will rarely, if ever, use, just to please some fictional person. If that ever changes, I will rethink it and perhaps purchase one. But until then, why would I?
So no, Kurt, it's not about my EGO, as you suggest.
It's about my wallet and good, practical business sense.

that's all great, and glad it works for you... just means that's a show I won't visit.

I dunno, guess I'm "old school"... started back when Lasers were still the top of the line, and SC was unmatched.

Having the ability to play a customer disc in Portland and Kansas City, two cities I've lived in for the past fifteen years, means to me, you have to have the player option.

There's a local club on yahoo for us local karaoke folks, and many people have complained about one of the local companies as "oh well, if I go to his show, I know I can't bring my discs!"... the guy's a good host (alebit a former illegal one who says he's got the discs for his four independant libraries... verdict is still out on that), and he's known for doing great shows...

but you should hear the customer grumbling!

He too says he doesn't get the requests... yeah, once people spread the word that you can't play customer discs, the demand drops severely.

I havnt seen a cdg in 3 years. If I,m using a laptop I cant play CDG,s whereas at private parties a cd player is a must and the last time I needed one was at a wedding and the reception. We used the laptop for both. (An mp3 doesnt need graphics)

If you plan to attend one of my shows and absolutely need to play cd's request it and I will provide the service I still have Cavs software that plays files or cd's. Or if I started getting singers with cd's i would be prepared but like I say I havnt seen one in 3 years.

There are other options now such as flash drives and inhouse downloading and please dont give me that virus crap.

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

I'm only doing one regular gig now. I used to do 5-6 nights a week but finally my
day job required me to cut back.

My Thursday gig does not have any regulars that bring in personal discs. Once or twice a year Swingcat will come in or some of my other "Old Time" regulars will come in and I will play their discs. Other than that my plextor burner is just along for the ride.

All my other gigs I had at least 4-6 people bringing in their personal discs for play every evening. I'm convinced that if I did not offer that service to them they would go down the road where another KJ did.

On a personal note I would not stick around a show that was incapable of playing my personal discs. If they have the versions I sing then I will sing theirs, otherwise I'm outta there.

I don't condemn KJ's for not offering this service but I do not frequent their businesses either.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Just as I respect certain KJ's, particularly those with much experience, on how they run their business if they are successful.... that doesn't mean that I personally have to like their show.

Likewise, while I respect the decision of someone who won't frequent a show that won't play personal discs, that doesn't mean I have to agree professionally or personally with said decision.

When I go out to karaoke, there is nothing more important to me than BOTH my wife and I having a good time. And she doesn't care if I use my own discs or not; she's heard me sing with and without them!

And, if there is anyone in the audience who actually enjoys hearing me sing, they don't care whether I am using my own discs or not!

Besides anything else, this thread was actually intended to focus on what (the many elements that) attracts us as singers to a show. And I do think it's sad that as "karaoke people" there are some of us that find it impossible to hang around and find what there maybe to enjoy about a show if the KJ won't/can't play our CDG's!

I have MTU Hoster loaded on my drive in addition to CompuHost and Hoster has an option for playing customer CDG's

I have an External Plextor burner hooked up via USB that fit's neatly into my DJ Coffin Case that I use to play customer discs with. It takes up very little space and is ready in case the request is there.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Everyone has basically stayed on topic. For some the disc thing is a big deal, others it is not such a big deal.

I don't see anything sad in that. Like it or not it is definately a factor for some and as KJ's we need to be open to that if we want to relate to a broad spectrum of customers.

Yes there are many more important factors affect the choice of which show we frequent but for some that is a very important factor. Like it or not that's the way it is.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I do think it's sad that there are those so totally focused on their discs when they go out to karaoke that they can't enjoy a show that doesn't play them. And again, I can accommodate them at my show. Also, I carry my own discs with me when I go out to sing.

Nonetheless, I am so curious about this matter that I have, basically, started another thread that encompasses that topic.

I did explain previously that I do understand all of the other reasons why karaoke people avoid certain shows, including the cleanliness of the venue. But I really don't understand why not having their own discs played is a "deal-breaker" to some singers?

Clearly, if nothing else, 99% of the people with their own discs must be able to play them at home. So, if they find that they can't sing their favorite or the newest songs out, they can sing them at home and then pick something else to sing out. There must be hundreds of songs in any typical catalog that they can enjoy singing!

If what I am saying is completely wrong, than those who bring discs will always bring discs to shows, but different ones with the passage of time. Meanwhile 98% of the remaining audience is just fine using the catalog time after time. What gives with that?

Besides, keeping your discs at home keeps them safe and clean!

I have a guy who insists I use 'His CD' for a few songs. He hands me his disk, I pull the track up on the PC because I already have it, he sings, I hand his disk back and then brags to his friends how he uses his personal track for it. He's got a soft spot for Pocket Songs, fine.

So if the KJ doesn't handle disks but has your track would that bring you back?

If the guy handles disks but has a bad rotation, adequate sound and a rude crowd would you come back?

Saying you won't come back because someone doesn't do a specific thing doesn't tell us why you walked in to begin with. I find it difficult to believe that folks wouldn't visit a world class show just because he doesn't play/have the track you want but would go to a sub par show just because they do.

To each his own I guess

You may choose to live your life in blissful wonder, but I for one don't trust jump drives for my hard earned time, money.

You can't corrupt a player with a cdg or cdr (burned cd)

You can with a jump drive. I've seen it happen. It ain't pretty!

It's a big deal for ME and for those like me because we have our hearts set on singing a specific song (sometimes!). On busy nights, you may only get up once or twice. I don't mind paying for a night of entertainment, but it'll be MY CHOICE of entertainment. You may have my specific songs... But I've specialized over the years in working with various manufacturers and getting certain songs produced. Chances are VERY good that you may NOT have the said song or two that I really want to sing. For people like my wife, (and I'll repeat this since some people just can't fathom the idea that the customer CAN and WILL choose where to go), she's not that confident with her singing ability. Some songs she does pretty well, but it's because she knows the timing, the background vocalists, the graphics... whatever. But it's what SHE WANTS.

It's NOT what the KJ WANTS, it's what we (the consumers) PAY for when we go to the venue. Gee, that's a new concept. Someone who PAYS to go out and support a show. And if it's not to the customer's liking, they WILL LEAVE.

Is that CLEAR ENOUGH?

This doesn't need whole new threads dedicated to this specific discussion. (why do we have to have so many new threads created?) The point was already asked.
For me, it's being able to play a customer's disc.

This is a DEAL BREAKER for some people. I can and have sang songs the venue had. But I'm also pretty upset that for the convinience of a computer, you LOSE the basic principle of playing what that customer wanted... at a disc based show, it never would have been an issue.

What's doubly frustrating is I know how blasted simple it IS to provide a machine JUST in case someone like me and my friends shows up. What's one more piece of equipment and a switch with three connections to a professional mixer?

If this wasn't such an important issue, it never would have been brought up by me or others on here. I've NEVER had a night where someone wouldn't bring up a disc to me. EVERY single night I've worked a karaoke gig, SOMEONE has brought me up one.

To slice the nose off those customers, especially where this is common, is "bad customer service". You are NOT providing what these specific customers want.

"Can you play outside discs?"
"ABSOLUTELY!"

You don't provide the service, and we as PICKY people will choose to NOT pick your venue. If we don't know about it ahead of time, we'll not even sit down if we walk in and are told "Sorry, we can't accept singer discs!" Believe me, someone else will, whether it's another player, Compuhost, winamp, or whatever.

It's simply not that hard to do.

Now, am I saying those that don't want to do it HAVE to?

Absolutely NOT! I'm just saying I PERSONALLY won't attend that show. For me, they're not working for my needs as a karaoke show.

And I could put a virus on their flash drive would would make more sense because they wil use it with a computer they go on the internet with and they wouldnt know where it came from.

Somebody could come in with a hypodermic full of battery acid and inject your co-axes and short them out. They could also slash your tires in the parking lot.

Just out of curiousity what did the virus do?

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

I don't worry much about hosts playing my disks any more. I have so many songs I do that I can always find something to sing. But earlier in my karaoke career, I was very much wedded to my versions and more importantly, my key changes. I burn the key change on the disk, which eliminates the problems that always occur with hosts forgetting them (or Winamp/Pacemaker not getting the message).

Nowadays I tend to sing closer to the original key, and when in doubt I pick a song that there is no key change necessary. In short, I am becoming enough of a campaigner that it doesn't faze me very much any more. If I have to sing it a half-step or two higher, no big deal. My voice doesn't sound as good up there but I can hit the notes.

My wife, on the other hand, is still very happy when she finds a host that plays our disks. She has trouble adapting to new versions because she doesn't practice 1/10th as much as me.

If they play disks, it actually makes it easier on the host in many ways. A couple of hosts that I used to go to their show regularaly, I burnt a disk just for that night. I would hand it to them and say "Just go 1, 2, 3 in order". They LOVED it.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

popups from he!!, and when he tried to reboot the computer as the memory became exceeded and the pc locked up, it trashed his higher drives. Unsure exactly how. Even hooking them up via usb didn't work.

FORTUNATELY, the kj had a duplicate pc at home, and within 20 minutes, the show was back up and running.

The guy that had the virus had no idea. He downloaded the song off the net, and didn't play it at home. Come to find out, he was loaded with Virii on his pc.