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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Bruce? are you and idiot ? Your questions were answered before they were even asked.

Diafel, forgive me for sidetracking the topic a bit, but I gotta get this off my chest.

Bruce. You might consider a good apology to Diafel for your lack of honor. YES, honor. You are a full time jerk. Now be a a good boy and apologize.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:43 pm 
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[quote="Karen K @ September 20th 2009, 2:50 pm"]Brucie, go back and read Diafel's posts....she does NOT use copies....Lordy, how many ways does she have to explain this to you dudes? Get off the topic already. It is about renting out a second rig, not how many copies of your CDGs do you have and use at the same time.[/quote]

She says that she has two rigs. One computer rig and one rig with copies of her discs so as to protect her originals. Her husband does a gig with one system and the second system is being used by this employee that is stealing from her. That means there are TWO sets of music being used at the same time. I was just asking if she OWNS two ORIGINAL sets of all of her music. Maybe she has split her collection into two halves so she can run two shows at the same time legally. I don't know. That is why I asked. Some people think that if they OWN one set of ORIGINAL discs, they can rip them to their computer and still use the discs to do another show while they are using their computer to run a show at the same time.

I just spotted her answer to my questions and she says she has two sets of discs. That's great. That's all I was trying to find out. Some people don't. I never accused her of anything so I don't need to apologize. If her defenders don't know the difference between a question and an accusation, they have a problem. Not me. I read a lot of posts on this forum but I don't memorize them. There are dozens of people here who post their opinions. Am I supposed to remember everything I read here? Not very likely.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Diafel: I agree with everyone else. Kick him to the curb. I doubt it was even charity. If he was willing to give you $50, that shows guilt. Bruce, my system is legal like Diafel's. Been buying CDGS since 96. There are always going to be pirates out there, just a fact of life. I tell my elementary students when they are tattling to worry about themselves. Is there a deeper issue? Have you been burned yourself? Or just trying to educate us--if so, point taken- we are all professional and legal here.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:16 pm 
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In the first place son the supreme court have decided that anonymity or their identity of posters or bloggers can not be protected from lawsuits from those whose businesses are slandered. You have insulted and slandered a fellow Kj If she doesnt want to persue legal rights I WILL HAVE MY ATTORNEYS TO ASK PHIL FOR ALL THE ID AND INFO HE HAS TO IDENTIFY YOU I WILL HANG YOU THIS IS BS!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:30 pm 
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[quote="karyoker @ September 20th 2009, 8:16 pm"]In the first place son the supreme court have decided that anonymity or their identity of posters or bloggers can not be protected from lawsuits from those whose businesses are slandered. You have insulted and slandered a fellow Kj If she doesnt want to persue legal rights I WILL HAVE MY ATTORNEYS TO ASK PHIL FOR ALL THE ID AND INFO HE HAS TO IDENTIFY YOU I WILL HANG YOU THIS IS BS!![/quote]

I see you're having another one of your typical weekends, Ollie. Have at it. I asked a question. I made no accusations or definitive statements of any kind but you go on with your bad self. I know of plenty of KJ's and plenty of Karaoke Companies that buy one set of discs and make copies for each of their systems. I never said that diafel was one of those people. I asked how many sets of original discs she had and she finally answered it. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. Feel free to contact your lawyer. I hope he's an expensive one.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:44 pm 
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BruceFan4Life @ Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:36 pm wrote:
I DID NOT MAKE ANY ACCUSATIONS. I ASKED A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.......that haven't been answered. Hmmmmm!

Your "questions" HAVE been answered THREE TIMES!!!
And by the WAY you asked your "questions" and assumed the answers by commenting on what you thought they were, you IMPLIED that I was pirating.
No difference as far a slander case goes.
Why not try watching what you say and how you say it?

BruceFan4Life @ Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:43 pm wrote:
Her husband does a gig with one system and the second system is being used by this employee that is stealing from her.

EXCUSE ME???
Just where did you get that my hubby is using MY rig to do gigs?
I said he regularly does gigs on Saturdays.
I did not say what KIND of gigs, did I?
There you go again making assumptions.
Well, just to set the record straight, he NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL do karaoke.
He does DJ gigs here and there but mostly, he does SOUND gigs.
In other words, he's a SOUND TECH for bands.
Just keep jumping to your conclusions Bruce.
Proves you to be the (@$%&#!) and idiot you are.
Oh, and if you assume that I'm offended by your "questions", that I'm pissed at you, that would be the FIRST assumption you got right!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Way to go Diafel!! GO GET 'EM!!! Give 'em an earfull. Brucie? Look out! you just angered the karaoke gods.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Bruce, STOP posting in this thread; if you are not answering the OP.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:52 pm 
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bonjovi @ Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:08 pm wrote:
Diafel: I agree with everyone else. Kick him to the curb. I doubt it was even charity. If he was willing to give you $50, that shows guilt. Bruce, my system is legal like Diafel's. Been buying CDGS since 96. There are always going to be pirates out there, just a fact of life. I tell my elementary students when they are tattling to worry about themselves. Is there a deeper issue? Have you been burned yourself? Or just trying to educate us--if so, point taken- we are all professional and legal here.


The $50 wasn't from guilt. It was to hold her off so he can finish his "karaoke project." If he didn't give her anything she might have pulled his plug before he gets everything he wants. $50 for a loaded hard drive? Beats Craigslist by $400.

I completely understand your situation about wanting to be loyal and reputable to the Thursday bar owner. You need to figure out someway to have someone watch him like a hawk.

Would it be worth it to pay someone you trust to be there and hawk him? Personally i don't think you can afford not to.

I had employees copying my discs. They took them home with them after work. If they were working the next day they just exchanged them.

If he is using the computer he could easily be transfering files during the entire show. Nobody would notice. In four hours he could have a lot of music. If he already has some of it he might not need much more.

He had complete secret access to the system for how long unattended. The "charity" work might have been in his basement. Charity of you to his new karaoke business.

One more thing to think about. I know you need the money but i think i would rather talk to the Thursday bar owner and have another karaoke company fill in those 2 nights. As a last resort, desperation move to protect what you have. Keep him far away from the bar, your singers and customers and the equipment. He is going to want and need all of those items. :angel:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:04 am 
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Diafel, the files on your hard drive can be password protected to prevent them from being copied. i don't think it is very difficult to do. If you would prefer to continue to use the computer method for ease and portability. There are also options like encryption so that the files won't work once they're transferred. PM me if you would like to know more. It's simple things you could do yourself.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:37 am 
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I attempted to read thru some of the BS on here and wil try to give a simplified opinion... LOL

#1 - Who cares about where the 2nd Library came from ?..really not pertinent
#2) - If you don't trust someone --Fire them ! Don't Use Them ! etc.
#3) - Stayin home with familiy is the #1 priority --Kids grow up to fast ..so maybe turning down sime gigs is better than dealing with the BS
#4 ) If #3 is not an option ...be prepared that becoming a multi rig operation comes with an entirely new set of Big PROBLEMS as you've encountered.
Besides THEFT or unathourized use of your equipment , there are LIABILITY issues you need to consider with any EMPLOYEE or sub contractor. I suggest you speak to a Lawyer or someone who can advise you. The last thing you need is to get into a messy lawsuit due to some EMPLOYEE you hired using your equipment.

But if your succesfull and cover all your bases expanding your business can be VERY rewarding ...but it comes with lotsa work and headaches !

WISH YOU WELL !!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:53 am 
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I don't have any concrete answers, just spit balling ideas here...

It seems you are in the early stages of expanding to 2 rigs... at least on a semi permanent basis. I am in the same boat with 2 shows on a Friday (I split the CDs and files between the two rigs and have been augmenting the shows with downloads and just added second copies of SC Foundation 1 & 2 to flesh out the 2nd rig - Mr Legal here!)

When the equipment is out of your hands you have a number of additional worries.

Theft of equipment by either hired help or unknown 3rd party.
Theft of songs (copying of either discs or files), usually by hired help or at lest requiring help from them.
Transfer of liability - it is still your equipment so without appropriate paperwork you still have some liability.

Finally, and least obnoxious, unauthorized use of equipment.

You can't really do too much to stop theft of equipment, although I am looking at more ways to lock down the system so that if they do get it the computer will be self destructing.
For theft of songs there are some ways to help prevent it but realistically if the person can play the song, then they can copy it.
Liability - insurance and contracts need to be ironed out.
Unauthorized use - setting up multiple users on an Win2K/XP Pro/Vista system with restrictions on logon times to only the time authorized by you.

These are things I am 'planning' to do on my rigs. Yet I still need to have an emergency system in place in case the computer dies so the show can go on! I plan on building an unzipping utility into my hosting program to play password protected zip files, have that password stored in the database or otherwise encrypted by the program etc etc. That combined with time limited logon and auto shutdown after the gig should have ended will reduce the window of opportunity.

Contracts regarding non copying of songs when people host / rent equipment would mean you could sue them if they stole your music provided you could prove that copied it from you and not someone else (need to watermark the files somehow!)

That's my ramble of ideas over. The challenge is always finding someone who is clever enough to run a show and honest enough not to steal it.

Jonn


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:32 am 
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Bruce you are in luck.. Right now I have a flat on my van which I need to get fixed. Tomorrow after I get back from the food bank I will go down and talk to my attorney.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Ollie, I think you are big enough to give him a break.

I for one dont want a lawyer hiding in the wings waiting to PM me if someone takes a shot at me.
I dont think you do either.

Yes we will all fall out at some point.
You did with me and that was gross misunderstanding. It happens.
We make friends and carry on.

Some uf us have pride trouble and cant rebound as quickly.

Bruce knows what he has done and learnt.
Now he will carry on that bit wiser.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Besides, isn't it against the law to threaten to kill people or to physically assault them also? Pot - Kettle. Rudy.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:12 pm 
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The ONLY reason some people are still alive is it ILLEGAL to kill them.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Calm down kids and play nice or i'm sending you to bed without dinner. And just wait until your Dad gets home. :angel:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:40 pm 
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diafel @ Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:46 am wrote:
I finally got my 2nd rig up and running. My host was scheduled to do a gig tonight at one of my regular venues (in the next town) with it, with an arrangement for the next 2 weeks on Saturdays and then see where it goes from there. He picked up the gear this morning at around 11:15 am. At 11:45, I see posted on his Facebook status that he's doing an afternoon gig at one of the hotels from 1 - 4 pm and is inviting everyone to show up.
He mentioned nothing of this to me when he picked up the gear, nor did attempt to call me about it at any time, even though he knew I was home all day and has my phone number. Needless to say, I was rather miffed about it. I posted "?????" as a comment to his status.
I called my hubby to get his thoughts and after much back and forth, we decided to send an employee of his, that the host knows works for hubby, to do a walk-through and make sure the host at least sees him. We also decided that I would approach him about it in the morning when he drops off the gear.
He still also owes me for a gig he did 2 weeks ago with my gear. It was to be a flat rental fee of $100.00. Well, when I went to pick up the gear after that gig, he told me that he never used it and only had it as a backup because they guy putting on the party already had gear. I was a little miffed about that as well, but he offered me $50 so I decided not to make too big a deal of hit. HOWEVER, you don't go and rent a carpet cleaner, bring it back the next day and say you don't want to pay because you never used it....
Anyway, back to the current story.
He messages me through Facebook at 6:00 pm and tells me it was a last minute thing and that someone he knew asked if he minded setting up because it was a charity for kids with cancer. He said he thought it would be a good "dry run" (his words, not mine) to test setting up the gear. He said he hoped I didn't mind.
I think this is his way of setting me up to tell me he made no money from it and so won't want to pay for using the gear.
Well, I DO mind, very much!
While I think charity events are a good thing, I would, at the very least, like to be ASKED before hand.
As it stands, I think it's a very worthy cause, but I personally choose to donate to other organizations and would not have done this gig. Even if I had, I would have probably offered a reduced rate and not done it for free because I feel quite strongly about doing gigs for free. My personal opinion, but it's not really pertinent to the problem at hand, so please don't give me opinions on charity events.
Now what I plan to do is tell him in the morning that I mind very much and in no uncertain terms is he to use my gear unauthorized again.
I will also try to explain to him that there is wear and tear on every piece of gear every time it's used, and that I really can't afford to start replacing gear before I've got my investment out of it. I will try to explain to him that I have thousands invested in it and I need to recover that. I will also let him know that while this may be a fun pocket money side job for him, it is how I put food on the table for my family and while I enjoy every minute of it, it's not a game to me.
As for his next 2 Saturday gigs, I will have to make the half hour trip to the next town myself each night and drop the gear off a half hour before his gig and I will return again at 1:00 am to pick it up. The original plan would have had him picking it up from me on Thursday night after my gig at the same venue and then returning the gear on Sunday morning.
But he can't be trusted at this point and I do not want to risk him undercutting me with my own rig!
I must also say that were he not one of my regular singers originally and if he didn't have a lot of friends who karaoke I would have gone a got the rig from him earlier today and kibosh-ed the whole thing. But I can't risk alienating that many singers.
I have another guy (new in town) who's interested in hosting and apparently has experience. He's coming out to my gig tomorrow and I will see what he knows. He looks promising and if that's the case and he works out, I will replace my current host.
Any other advice you can give me?
What would you have done?


Remember a few days ago, I was looking for a contract. Well I put one together myself and then had my attorney look it over and tweak it. This issue is covered in the contract. I would be willing to share this contract with someone that would like to see it, just PM me and we can arrange to send my email attachment.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:17 pm 
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karyoker @ Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:32 pm wrote:
Bruce you are in luck.. Right now I have a flat on my van which I need to get fixed. Tomorrow after I get back from the food bank I will go down and talk to my attorney.


Are those original tires or did you copy and steal them too !!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:08 am 
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:P :P :P :P :P :P :P


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