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mcentertainment
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:37 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:50 pm Posts: 77 Been Liked: 0 time
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Hey Ice,
There is nothing wrong with using tacky, I knew what you ment.
There are some establishments here that do charge a cover fee, but that money is charged by management to help cover the entertainment cost. I have heard complaints about a bar charging a cover but never about tipping.
IMO, put out the tip jar (if the bar dosen't mind). People either tip or don't, their choice. It also has no bearing on weather or not your customers come back.
Cort
MC Entertainment
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karaokemeister
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:06 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:56 am Posts: 1373 Location: Pensacola, Florida Been Liked: 0 time
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In a town with plenty of people working in the tourism industry it's not that unusual to put out a tip jar. If they want to tip and you're busy doing the show they drop it in the jar. As long as the tip jar is nice and not a mayonaise jar with the label still on it and tips written w/ a sharpie it shouldn't be too tacky. One guy used a tip 'pig' (he was a shuttle driver) and another uses a boot (he does a show on climbing Denali). Maybe if I could find a glass microphone or something similar.....hmmm...
As for the rotation, I ususally turn in 6-8 slips for the night shortly after I get there. I let the KJ pic what song I sing next so he can keep a theme if he likes and puts me in rotation whereever he likes. Every show I've ever been to uses slips and I've been told by a couple people that sign up sheets are a pain to maintain (multiple signups, etc). I personally like the idea of using a monitor for the rotation. Now I just need a computer setup with 3 outputs (1 for me, 1 for rotation, 1 for the singer).
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animalien
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:04 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:38 pm Posts: 34 Location: Wisconsin Been Liked: 0 time
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I remember this one time I was doing a show and it was reaching the end of the night. A guy comes up with a $20 and asks me to push someone forward. I told him I won't do that. I did say that if he was giving me the $20, then it should be on such a good job I am doing. Not the fact that he wants someone pushed up in the rotation. He agreed to that.
I tried to get this person up to sing, but the bar manager pretty much stopped me before that could happen. So I ended the show.
The guy comes back up to me and asks for his $20 back. I said "Now I thought we were on the understanding that this tip was not for getting someone up to sing, but for what I have been doing all night." I explained the situation with the bar manager, but he still wanted his $20 back. So I gave it back to him.
Kinda sad that someone doesn't "get it".
ANYWHO - I find a rotation is all so different from show to show. And sometimes I can't believe who is "watching" the rotation.
One show that I have done is a demanding show. More of a meat market than Karaoke thing. There are Karaoke singers that only sing at this one show because of how many people are there. And they usually sing the dancy stuff.
The problem with doing the rotation there is that the other people (non-karaoke singers) would come up to complain that there is no dance music. And a good percentage wants to dance more than listen to karaoke.
So with this night I will group the "non dance" songs and the "dance" songs. I see complaints, but I will tell them that sometimes Karaoke is more than getting up to sing.
Heck, a couple times when someone wanted to get up to sing I would "Accidentally" put on another song that is dancable and that they can sing, and when I make the mistake, we ask the crowd which one they would want to hear. When the singer gets the response, they end up going with the dance tune.
So I think the best thing is to use your own judgement. If you are in a bar with 5 singers, then a strict rotation is the answer. However if you have close to a 100 slips in your hand, and the knowledge that only 20 people can sing per hour, then sacrifices have to be made. Some people won't like that, but then again you are playing to the majority.
_________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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knightshow
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:14 pm |
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 am Posts: 7468 Location: Kansas City, MO Been Liked: 1 time
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Last night, a new regular came up, and handed me a slip.
"This guy wants to sing, but will only do it if you put him in right now."
I shook my head and said "No, I won't treat my OTHER customers like that. 'I' Don't even get to put myself in where I want. I have over 23 singers in rotation right now."
She nodded, as if she expected that. She then handed me a second slip. "This guy wants to sing... how many away?"
I looked at the rotation. "We're halfway thru the rotation... better part of an hour."
She walked away. And then complained VERY loudly to the management. I could hear her OVER the music.
So I walked over (calmly I might add), checked out what they had to drink and eat, looked at the bartender/owner and motioned him over. He checked out what I was looking at.
A table of water drinkers.
"Your call or mine, Matt?"
I said, "I'll do it."
And I politely told them that they had a lot of nerve in 1.) trying to stir up crap, and 2.) not even supporting the bar on their expense of having paid entertainment. I then motioned for the door and said that they were not needed NOR wanted.
The table was a bit thunderstruck as if they didn't expect it. Joe, the bartender, calmly walked over and opened the door FOR them.
They left to a thundering roar of applause.
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StarKaraoke
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:32 am |
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:55 am Posts: 103 Location: Mobile, Alabama (On the Central Gulf Coast 1-65 at I-10) Been Liked: 0 time
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MATT, AMEN THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS!!!!!
And animalien I would have given up the twenty when he asked about bumping up even after the first discussion. As I said earlies, tips I take bribes walk, no matter how big the bribe.
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Cueball
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:50 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:55 pm Posts: 4433 Location: New York City Been Liked: 757 times
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Animalien,
quote:
"Heck, a couple times when someone wanted to get up to sing I would "Accidentally" put on another song that is dancable and that they can sing, and when I make the mistake, we ask the crowd which one they would want to hear. When the singer gets the response, they end up going with the dance tune."
end quote
I don't mind if a KJ asks me to sing something else, but I do not appreciate when he or she takes it upon themselves to change my song. Being put on the spot like that (as you just described), I probably would sing the song, but I also probably would never come back to your show again. I used to know a KJ who constantly juggled the order of our song slips that were handed up. My friends liked going to his show, so I nipped it in the bud by using the "Sing One, Bring One" logic. Eventually, I just stopped going to his shows, because he was a jerk.
Also, I agree with Debra about the $20 TIP. I don't take TIPs at all, but if I did, I would have given the $20 back as soon as that person asked to be up.
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curitre
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:13 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 5 Location: New Hampshire Been Liked: 0 time
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We typically accept first rotation slips for the first 1/2 hour of the show. If your slip is in by then, you will sing in the first rotation. Slips received after the first 30 minutes will be mixed in the 2nd rotation (old singer, new singer). Duets count as both turns and occur in the earlier singers spots. Even the most loyal singer follows these rules and receives no special treatment. We track everything on a laptop rotation program, display the rotation, notes, pictures and lyrics on a movie screen, then post the singer statistics on our website. www.rcmkaraoke.com.
We don't like the sing one-bring one mentality (same as roller-coaster?) because our singers enjoy knwoing they don't have to rush to get their next song in. They can choose their song based on the mood of the crowd at the time.
Also, it makes sense to reward singers who are present when your show opens by cutting the first rotation at a certain time or number of singers. Why reward a less than loyal patron who wanders in an hour after the show starts while a loyal patron who sang in the beginning of the show has been waiting for an hour to sing again?
A fair rotation will bring singers back.
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Lonman
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:03 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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Curitre, nice site. I too designed a rotation program to fit the needs of my show.
_________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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ritisroo
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:27 am |
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:13 pm Posts: 344 Been Liked: 0 time
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That is the coolest site ever! I would love to have a place that keeps track of that kind of stuff! Really neat
Nice to see people do that for their karaoke-goers.
Very Cool Indeed
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Guest
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:04 am |
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wow !!! what a site... I need a rotation program for my lap top can anyone help? mdavis86@cox.net
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knightshow
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:46 am |
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 am Posts: 7468 Location: Kansas City, MO Been Liked: 1 time
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terrific website! I hadda sign your guestbook!
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icenine
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:41 am |
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:27 pm Posts: 186 Location: Waltham, MA Been Liked: 0 time
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That is a GREAT site Curitre!
The upkeep must be pretty difficult, no? You really put in the effort and from the pictures on your site it looks like you run a great show!
I am going to have to make the 1 hr drive up to Exeter from Waltham, MA some Friday night soon.
_________________ Patrick
Twinbrook Sound
Waltham, MA
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curitre
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:56 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 5 Location: New Hampshire Been Liked: 0 time
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It works pretty well for our needs. Our circumstances are probably a little different than most of the folks in here. Our karaoke business is a hobby for us. We have three hosts. We are all business partners and we all have full time profession other than karaoke. We host one show per week because anything more would make it seem more like a job and less like a hobby. Since we don't rely on the income, we roll most of the money back into improving the show and adding new discs.
I wish I could say the software was available commercially but currently it isn't. It is geared towrd our show and still has some bugs that need to be worked on. I would like to write something karaoke related for commercial use but I really wonder how much market there is for it.
As I said before, we have three partners in the business, and we need all three every week to run a smooth show. We can do it with 2 but those nights are hectic. We've never had to run it with one and I hope we never do. So I wonder how some hosts could manage to run a laptop, a sound system and still have time to schmooze. I guess that takes a lot of practice.
I know I've read in a few places that some of you have your own software for rotations and displays and what not. (Lonman comes to mind) Did you write it yourself or is it off the shelf? What would you like to see written that isn't available to you?
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Lonman
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:19 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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curitre wrote: I know I've read in a few places that some of you have your own software for rotations and displays and what not. (Lonman comes to mind) Did you write it yourself or is it off the shelf? What would you like to see written that isn't available to you?
I didn't write the program, but did design it & had it written. It basically displays the rotation - up to 23 singers per page. On each singer line it will display what time you were stamped in if you are a new singer, approx wait time until your next song, what time you sang last & what song you (and everyone else) will be singing. Like I said, it works for our clubs needs.
Something that's not available to me, i'd have to think about that one.
_________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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tigger
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:00 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:07 pm Posts: 337 Location: Roseville, CA Been Liked: 0 time
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About tips: it's interesting reading how so many karaoke policies differ according to different regions. I admire you kj's who don't solicit tips - that is classy. Yet here in the Sacramento area, I've always seen tip jars - perhaps it's the trend here. I usually tip $5 because I love karaoke so much and it's worth it to me. I'd even tip more if I had to.
And rotations: I see some of the logic in having to lace in new singers with old ones. And most if not all of the places I've been around here do it that way. Yet the singer/patron part of me feels that disappointment of "hey I've been here since 10 mins. til start and why ain't I getting any credit for my loyalty?" Not to mention the singer junkie part of me just wanting to sing sooner....I know it can't be perfect though.
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knightshow
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:45 pm |
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 am Posts: 7468 Location: Kansas City, MO Been Liked: 1 time
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and that's exactly why I really don't accept tips WITH the karaoke slips... too much like it's braggin'.
If you wanna tip me, at the end of the night is perfectly fine with me.
I don't get NEAR as much that way, but I feel I earn the tips, as opposed to "hey, take care of me!"
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animalien
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:03 am |
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Novice Poster |
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:38 pm Posts: 34 Location: Wisconsin Been Liked: 0 time
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Cueball wrote: Animalien,
quote: "Heck, a couple times when someone wanted to get up to sing I would "Accidentally" put on another song that is dancable and that they can sing, and when I make the mistake, we ask the crowd which one they would want to hear. When the singer gets the response, they end up going with the dance tune." end quote
I don't mind if a KJ asks me to sing something else, but I do not appreciate when he or she takes it upon themselves to change my song. Being put on the spot like that (as you just described), I probably would sing the song, but I also probably would never come back to your show again. I used to know a KJ who constantly juggled the order of our song slips that were handed up. My friends liked going to his show, so I nipped it in the bud by using the "Sing One, Bring One" logic. Eventually, I just stopped going to his shows, because he was a jerk.
Also, I agree with Debra about the $20 TIP. I don't take TIPs at all, but if I did, I would have given the $20 back as soon as that person asked to be up.
First of all, you have to remember - The people DIDN"T want to hear anything more than a dance tune. I concider this night as a glorified DJ session.
I guess I was too loose on the term. "Accidentally". Most cases it was truely accidental. When the crowd groaned about me stopping the song, I would bring up the question.
And with tips: giving back the $20 was not a big deal. But I wanted this person to know that he agreed it wasn't for getting someone up to sing - but for the good job I did. Maybe a little guilt trip in there.
I have accepted and recieved tips for my shows. I personally think a tip jar is kinda cheesy. That is, unless I am doing the show for free.
_________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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karaokefun
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:33 am |
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Senior Poster |
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:07 pm Posts: 111 Location: Michigan Been Liked: 0 time
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Regarding tips: In SE Michigan, I've never seen a tip jar, and I've never been tipped in two years of doing shows (at least not at a bar gig), so I think (hope?) it's pretty unheard of around here.
However, I was recently at a bar outside Chicago with some friends I hadn't seen in quite some time. I put a song in, and after a couple of rotations, one of my friends went up to see why I hadn't sung yet. The KJ said it was because I didn't tip him. I heard his reply, so I sauntered over to him and asked him why I should tip him when he hadn't done a friggin' thing for me yet! He said the people there know that the bigger the tip, the sooner you sing. Needless to say, I didn't sing that evening.
I certainly hope that this is so far from normal it's ridiculous, but I also wonder if the people that were singing were aware that they were basically being bamboozled by the host. Did I mention that the man's hosting skills consisted of: "That was Bill. This is Mary." <dead air>...
I'm sure this is not the norm in that area, but looking back it's so outrageous that I get quite a kick out of it.
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StarKaraoke
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:43 am |
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:55 am Posts: 103 Location: Mobile, Alabama (On the Central Gulf Coast 1-65 at I-10) Been Liked: 0 time
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Quote: And with tips: giving back the $20 was not a big deal. But I wanted this person to know that he agreed it wasn't for getting someone up to sing - but for the good job I did. Maybe a little guilt trip in there.
You are the one who did not get it. This person may have said it was a tip but for them it was really a bribe so I would give the bribe back. People like that are not going to feel guilty, they feel justified, if there is a next time just give back their money and say, "I DON'T WORK THAT WAY, THANK YOU, HERE'S YOUR MONEY BACK." If you really did a good job then YOU vindicate YOURSELF by saying without words to this guy, see I know my business and it isn't taking money from someone who had ulterior motives. I have done this before, expect that it may happen.
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knightshow
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:58 am |
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 am Posts: 7468 Location: Kansas City, MO Been Liked: 1 time
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in a way, I agree with Deb's comment above. There IS a sense of justification with giving a tip when you give the slip in.
That's why I always tip at the end of the night, the way I tip at the end of the night at a bar or restaurant when I'm eating or drinking, and leaving at the end... when my ccard bill comes! !
occassionally, I've been known to tip the cocktailer when she brings me my drink, but most expect that will be at the end. Now my lady Carol gives cheap tips, so whenever I'm with her, I usually slide a few extra bucks after she leaves! !
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