Karaoke Forums

Maybe, Since Singing is NOT God Given in my case when I try to sing I feel as if my voice will be a VERY different instrument that needs A LOT of technique and critical attention and efforting in specific areas..  When God created me, I don't think he planned on me being a "singer".. In fact I'm quite sure my niche in this world was to sit on my lazy butt, and type in chatrooms . Perhaps singing is just more "you" as you stated, it's there for you, you can do it even as we type in here, you always have it and likely practice doing it softly to yourself even when not recording.. Nice thing about the voice is you can multitask and still sing.  I think in YOUR case the phrase "God Given" does apply, I never seem to lose my ability to hear something and sit down and play it, BUT the technique really gets nasty over time without my doing the REALLY boring stuff such as practice, practice, warmups and you know.. the stuff you said even you dread in the Joe Cocker showcase comment area.. That's what I must do on guitar before I even try faster string-bends.. certain intervals etc.. Dang prob is, sports injury type of stuff and carpal tunnel related stuff does happen, but I REFUSE to succumb to it.. ALthough there's no avoiding warming up, even tho I do .. Is singing much different ?  I don't know.. CCindy, and even Jazzybags at one point said there's some strange reason that sometimes instrument players have a tougher time learning to sing, something is very different about the process, but I don't recall what it is, Those that learned on instruments aren't granted that they'll be able to sing easily using certain concepts that enable playing one instrument to help with another similar instrument much of the time..I love to try to sing, in fact I think I am singing if I don't listen to what I'm sounding like... and since I'm not a singer, I like to pretend I sound a certain way.. and I'll always sing and give myself permission to rank a solid "2" knowing that THAT is where *I* likely am doing the songs I like which I don't think my voice is suitable to handle.. BUT still love it, and as you stated, there's a limit to my generosity regarding how much I'm willing to make a fool of myself in front of ALL, I think I sound foolish when I sing songs I WANT to be able to sing.. I have been looking around the past two months just generally for SOME person that has experience singing pop style ballads in this area who can coach me and let me know what he or she thinks as to where I might do best given my natural range singing.. My concern is he'll say something like "Gay lullabyes". or "Alfalfa from the LIttle Rascals knock-off songs".  Thing is when I backup a vocalist , I believe I feel as you do singing.. When I back up ANY front person I feel that "Here is my Niche", I LOVE to be paced and I like to follow and accompany other musicians, I feel very comfortable even today ocassionally backing a decent front person, provided there are no wild piano fills involved or rediculously complex parts.. I love still playing piano to most ALL popular vocals songs and practicing them in person with a singer..( Last stint was with a woman singing Kate Bush stuff and while enjoyable, NOT ALL comes naturally). My feelings are that if I am going to play solo instrumentals or be "the front" man on an instrument it does involve aspects that aren't God Given..It involves being limber and able to (in the case of the stuff I play) pull off more of the jazz runs and and fills utilizing not just "natuiral" technique but dexterity that's lost in not playing... As you stated,  I can't hide anything when my technique is off assuming the tempo is fast enough, and the technique beyond basic... Recently I was told by a good friend (pro drummer) that I sound too choppy and tense when I play, he stated, it's not "fluent" sounding you've gotten rigid..(and it makes sense ) (The song was Ballad of Billy the Kid by Billy Joel) and it's a FAST song at parts, naturally being the lazy person I am, I felt I can just sit at the piano after a few years of not practicing the song, and knock it off easily.. It doesn't work that way.  But backing somebody live, or any popular vocalist live is my thing, I just feel comfortable playing live with other musicians, it takes working with them for a short time, and having it mesh.. which to me is a live process.. I lost contact with musicians when my hanging at the bar days ended, and although there are MANY people but few musicians that do this type thing. Unfortuneately some put down their guitar years back (or 4 marriages ago) and that was it for them.. and THAT sucks... I won't give up music.. few musicians into blues styles exist around here.. not sure why but more people are single these days, I'd think finding musicians that play blues and classic ballad stuff wouldn't be TOUGH around here, but assuming people were serious about it, they'd likely have relocated since there are virtually NO paying gigs anymore to sustain a musician within over an hours drive of here. I'm going to check out the CT musicians bboards after I type this paragraph, think I'll start looking online for folks that want to get together in my area and see where it goes from there, just seems weird to have to advertise to find folks to jam with (where the heck have all the musicians gone around here)?  Wondering if they too just sit at home nights typing in chatrooms, still, no bars to work at in this area..LOADS that asked if I'd find a few musicians and play free... While that might work for me one or two times, I doubt many musicians are going to crawl out've the woodwork and take time building a repetoir to work for beer nuts, and coffee... Takes being willing to hit Springfield Mass, or New Haven, Bridgeport, etc and New York... Not what I wish to do..   What seems to come naturally to me is backing you folks in live settings (To back up a musician that ISN'T present is a language I never really learned) You know how live some things just mesh, there's that 6th sense and you KNOW where the person is going to go, certain vibes and expression for dynamics etc how that interaction works ? It's different than exchanging tapes or CD's can't really explain it.... I suppose the singer can sing where ever he is, and at all times...when I opt to play in here typing instead of doing warmups, scales, fingering exercizes (and the stuff it takes to remain limber and keep a flowing style, working on dexterity which as you know isn't quite as much fun as doing and getting instant results) I make a choice to allow myself to get rusty..tedious practice IS often needed for instruments  and is especially needed on string instruments where at our age vibrato technique, and dynamic application isn't ever something "God Given", it might come easier to those with the knack or nuance for certain things but it's still learned technique that can easily deteriorate over time. Sort've like sports I guess, instruments require technique and there're no shortcuts when that's falling away.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Vicki, will do.. I'm going to listen now (it's after 3 AM sunday morning) and when I wake up tomorrow I'll let you know what I think.. I want to try not to get TOO analytical before bed.. Doc's orders


::::: taking headphones paper and pencil into darkened room:::::::

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

no rush Kappy huggs

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

steven to be honest, if i'm not recording i'm never singing r humming r anything, i don't listen to music, never have, i don't sing in the shower

i did lay off singing for a longggggg time, guessing 10 yrs r more, this was right after the band, i didn't miss it at all, when i did go back to singing some i could tell that my voice was rusty.....i guess that's a good word to use for it....i never practice, ever....even in the group i didn't practice as in getting better at singing r breathing r anything, of course we practiced the song itself.....i'm guessing over the yrs i just picked up things here and there and by doing that it never seemed like work...

i've always had a lotta trouble with my voice, singing roughly 60 songs a night for 6 nights will tend to do that to you....add on that i smoked yea that's right i USED to smoke....ll...plus drink add to that i sing wrong, straight from my throat., i had nodes on my vocal cords had an operation for that.....i never took care of my voice, very stupid....i always admired guys/girls that could do what i was doing and do it 100% all the time, i sang with a sore throat more then not...never 100%....really takes all the fun away....if i was close to 100% it was right after our night off, so the next night i would give it everything i had and blow it for the rest of the week, i never paced myself....again stupid.....

i'm not all that when it comes to singing, but i think i know my strong points and weaknesses,  and i try to use that.....

Probably not stupid Billy because you've still got it.. Might not be 100% of what it was, but as you said, how many are 100% at this stage in life ?  You're still extremely good, and without smoking getting even better (years later) which means you really haven't damaged much irreparably. I don't know how many could project from the throat as you do, having done that as powerfully as you sing indefinately either adding irritants such as smoke and alcohol, bar germs etc..It's brutal to do over the course of a lifetime assuming it can be done from the throat as strongly as you sing even today..  How many can do what you're able to do at around our age WITHOUT practicing, seemingly effortlessly ?  Seems not only is your ability God Given, but God's giving you another chance to do things right and nurture the throat this time around.. Who knows, you might end up BETTER than you ever were. Sure, the style won't be exactly the same as when we were kids, but.. music style changes anyway ( I try to tell myself this too because sometimes stepping away for awhile is the best way to come back and relearn and change style, I always found that regardless of how long I'm away my ear stays excellent although my technique and dexterity SUFFER horribly. so while I can assimilate what I'm hearing.. I might not be able to move my fingers )... You might be a gifted singer til your final days.  I think now it's important to take care of yourself at this point however since there's some degree of injury and it's those rebound injuries that can be the worst.. you don't want nasty rebound injury to the throat that like rebound sports injuries are often what does the athlete in.

My concern is that without warmups, and doing certain things to relax the throat you might be taking a tremendous risk straining or pushing at this point.  There's likely a correct way to break into power and range with warmups first. I haven't a clue what it is.. and btw.. I hate warmups and scales too, BUT I'm starting to get back to scales as much as I really can't stand the two octave double handed all sorts of modes and different minor scale crap... because realistically I have NO choice, but I'm not rushing anything... Just taking my lazy time but still trying to do what I know I must do.. assuming I want to grow and evolve to a new style that will likely NOT be really fast playing, but hopefully will be a more complex style compositionally. I'm just going slow.. less time at the piano, but I focus harder when I'm there.. Still doesn't help dexterity of course.... I'm forcing myself with ALL instruments to maybe get setback somewhat but this time NOT look at the neck of the guitar while playing AT ALL, or even rely on vision ever while at the piano.. One thing I wasn't able to do in those days  was anything that involved not relying on visual areas.. Now I can type without looking at my fingers HOPEFULLY this will help me to play without looking at my fingers, I've learned I have the ability to do something I didn't believe I could do, and that's rely on the accuracy of muscle memory.. I never had such awareness or confidence when young, this is a new concept to me and it might really help me
Sort've like the best thing that ever happened to me as a rock musician was extensive classical training as a youngster which I threw in the towel on finally... It's the tougher repetitious stuff that helps us improve.. this unfortuneately means warmups, and excercizes..  I wish typing could be considered a beneficial piano dexterity workout but that's not the case, at least I don't think

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Is that a learned skill, or a "natural" talent for you? If it is a skill, are there any tips you can give to those of us who would like to be able to develop that?

It's taken me many years to become aware of my tuning. I hope I don't sound stupid for saying this, but it's true. I don't have the ability to harmonize. In fact, the only time I have felt I could hear a harmony part that I could actually sing was in some guitar only recordings that a friend of mine made... music that had no lyrics.  It's the same for me when I am listening to others, as well. Of course there will be times when tuning issues are completely obvious from the outset...but when I listen to music I tend to focus on the singer's interpretation of the lyrics, how they express their emotions thru their singing, and if they seem to have a "connection" with the song as a whole.

Steve Savaria, the singer who recently died...he used to sing a song at least a hundred times before he began his recording process. And even after that....he could sometimes record a song dozens of times before he could be "happy" with his performance. I always marveled at that because if you have ever heard him sing...he was the master. He was such a "natural", and he never tried to sound like anyone else. Often I felt his interpretation of the song was a million times better than the actual artist who recorded it. His voice was SO rich. I mention this because he was another person who had an "excellent ear", and he was very hard on himself when it came to singing.

So in conclusion my original question is basically: Can a person develop an excellent ear or does it come natural? If it is indeed a learned skill, are there any tips or suggestions you can give to those of us who want to develop it? Thank you~Lena

I don't have a problem with rank if used properly. Perhaps I tend to think mechanically or something, but it's nice to have a lot of comments that may be good, bad, or indifferent but often those comments while giving you an impression of general direction of like or dislike will not really give you an idea of how well they thought you did. I don't think it has to be about competition with others on SS. Each has their own style, and they often sing different types of songs. I think it is good to be able to quantify (even if it is subjective for each reviewer) so that a singer understands in your opinion they did a poor, average, above average, or hit it out of the park type of performance. Seems like it's easier to keep up with how well you are doing that way overall.

The problem with rank and critique comes up when different people with different expectations interact. Truth is, this should be simple. L is listen only. J is just for fun which means you can leave comments but they should be karaoke style comments which are always positive, encouraging, and potentially fluff. Because we have L and J we should then be able to use C as it should be used and that is because someone wants honest critique for their song and so they have others opinions (not just their own) of how well they did.  For instance usually I can fairly well tell how well I did, but sometimes I am surprised.

Continuing this line of thought it is when the JFF'ers cross over and for some reason mistakenly started thinking they wanted C that there became a problem. Many JFF'ers thought C should be the same standard of J - JFF when in reality there is no reason for duplication of category. Additional problem compounding comes up when people then ask for a Rank as well. JFF'ers cross over into C as friends and on that basis give out high ranks to their friends and may attack enemies by leaving low ranks. It is a bit absurd.

Many of you that know me are familiar that like Paula I have started a number of threads on this topic in the past. There's always been disagreement between those that say 'it's only karaoke' and those that are more serious.

I started out wanting more of an accurate critique and rank, but the problem is I found out when everyone else has or gives slanted, faked, fluffed C's and Ranks it makes it tough. In the past when I got a bit critical in leaving true, constructive comments people would get a little annoyed. Most, in my opinion don't like to see anything but positive comments, and high ranks. Usually I'd notice my comments and ranks would suffer when I would do this so people were taking things the wrong way.

Pretty much now I don't leave a rank on rank songs unless I really liked it enough to give them a 10. That may be the way it is for most people when ranking me - not sure.

Sometimes I think of just switching to J or JFF and no rank as even many of the best singers do, but then I think 'What's the point?'. Some people will listen and enjoy it, but many only listen to get you to go to their songs and comment. Truth is without a real C section and meaning to rank it is somewhat pointless to submit to SS. If you get a good review and rank you really don't know when people mean it. Sometimes you can tell a bit by adjectives like 'Wow' and 'why don't you go sign a record contract'. Otherwise it's just a guess.

I suppose I still submit just because I like a song, and I like to sing, and I like to try and share sometimes. But it would be nice to have people really tell you truthfully how much they liked a song and how well they thought you may have ranked in their opinion. I admit it is nice to get 10's though, and good comments. It's like crack cocaine for singers. It's probably just as bad for them too in an unreal setting.

Will I delete all my songs and just go JFF from now on? Not sure? Why sub anyway in that case? In reality I'd sub to see how others like it, and if I can't determine that then what is the point? Is it just to live in a fantasy world? Fantasy can be intriguing, but is it what we all want in place of reality all the time?

Like I said this should be simple. We already have categories for L, J, and C. Those that don't want a true critique should stay away from C and enjoy their comments in J. Perhaps the J users want a rank also? Not sure.

Now after being fluffed for so long I wonder if I could even take a real critique?



PS: It occurs to me that if Admin somehow added a prerequisite approval process before being able to sub C / rank and perhaps review C then it would make it clear for those that aren't serious and are only doing it for karaoke style fun to keep it in J whereas if they wanted critique to sub as a C. C meaning and implying they want a more professional standard and review. I believe right now the code won't let you rank someone if you haven't subbed a song yet. So perhaps they could make someone read and agree to a page disclaimer about subbing / reviewing as C in order to have the right to perform that task.

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The Truth Is Out There

SweetestL,

  Jian brought up a VERY good point, and I myself have been straying off-topic quite a bit,  I anwered the above question in detail, and posted it in the Music and Musician thread.  You brought up a very good question regarding knack vs learned skill.. and I answered what I believe to be the case in detail over in M&M.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

So does no one have anything to say about my post above? I'm surprised  :shock: and I thought I had some pretty valid points on use of rank and critique that no one else brought up.

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The Truth Is Out There

Hugs back!!! =D I'll have to look her thread up. How cool that I still remembered.

Hey, if you guys wanna see my baby, here's a link

http://littleskye.aboutmybaby.com/?rand=45650

Nothing like a good critiquing debate to pull me back in.

Wow Kappy!! It's amazing how much has happened to you, but I KNEW you could do it!! I guess you still have some life left in them bones, though I'm sure there are plenty of broken hearts here at the ol' KS. Well, kudos to ya! I hope you're enjoying the money (hey, remember the little people?)

Oh and I searched for you rendition but couldn't find it. Did you have to submit under a different name due to all of those recording restrictions you must no doubt be under now?



Owie!! Did you pull something? Well, just give the word and I'll send you some fresh vocals of really piercing baby screeches to put on your answering machine, just for when those annoying buggers call you. Then again, sounds like you can handle that yourself!! Go you!



Well, after the pure & honest feedback I got here, I'm sad to say that I actually had my vocal chords surgically removed. That's right... I was so shamed and humiliated that I finally decided I would do the world a favor, but I'm doing a great job of picking up sign-language, which I am teaching to Skye! I hope he will be the youngest ASL singer on the showcase, though I haven't quite figured out how to upload his contributions yet.

Missed ya.

Seby.........   Now why aren't you over at the other thread telling it like it is?.....It looks like you can finally do so without being raked over the coals, congrats on that baby BTW....

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Nathan!!!

You forget my friend... I still have songs up!!!  :shock:

Now, if I go out critiquing again, I'll just have the last earthly vestiges of my short-lived singing career shredded like coleslaw. I just don't have the heart to do it!

Then again...  :reddevil:

and thanks! I'm looking for Crystal's thread but haven't found it yet.

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Who loves ya baby?

Shunn what is ur nic on SS so i can go listen to ur songs?

the problem with critiquing is everyone has their idea of who is capable of critiquing, wanting to know what a persons background is.

is Simon Cowell capable? how about Randy Jackson?  
i would say both r yet both disagree a lot on the same singer....how can that be seeing as both should know what they're listening for...
9 times out of 10 i found myself agreeing with Simon...yet he has less of a background than Randy does...

it's likes and dislikes, opinions....so for that reason alone i feel that pretty much anyone can critique....sure some can express what they feel is wrong much better than others, some can hear much better than others, me i hear the basic's but i can sure tell if ur on r off key, so why shouldn't i offer my opinion on a song?
i think if each person did add their opinion (and tha'ts really all it is) then u take the bits and pieces and put them together and hopefully u can be helped.

when someone critiques my songs i don't agree with all that's said but you know what? i don't have to, they're just offering their opinion and trying to help....what more could a person ask for....
no a person shouldn't be mean r hurtful and their reason for giving the critique should always be to help another person if they feel they can....

("If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything")

i think that's true but not always and not for everyone....my god case in point is american idol....some people just need to know the truth...nice r not....
life is not always nice so u better learn to deal with it....
being silent r sugar coating has it's place but for the most part i disagree with it....it's much better just to suck it up and deal with it....

gotta go...Billy

The problem with comparing this site to American Idol is that American Idol is a contest where a big part of the appeal of the show is that some of the singers are getting hammered with how terrible they are by people like Simon.  If you put yourself in that position and really have no idea of how good you are, then you probably should have stayed on Karaoke Scene and stayed away from American Idol.  The whole idea of sugar coating people's singing is stupid. You shouldn't feel obligated to go out and hammer someone the way they do on American Idol. It might make the site more interesting but it would start lots of problems between factions. We have seen that before.

At the same time, people decide whether to allow rank into their songs so they let themselves in for a critique. People should NEVER decide to critique someone who has not left rank open. Rank equals "come tell me how I did". It's all open to discussion, but best left as is. I still think contests are a good way to let the stars shine. If you did that on a weekly basis and let the enries pay a fee to keep it going, then we wouldn't have to worry about rank as some sort of huge worry.  Just my opinion.  :asleep:

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Who loves ya baby?

oh brother, here we go again!!!  :roll:

Ok, I'll respond to that one comment because I think it pretty much sums up your opinion on the entire matter.

You're partly right. 90% of the people on this site do not want to be critiqued. Period. Not by me, not by you, certainly not by someone with 40 years experience in the music industry.

Of those who truly DO want to be critiqued, they don't so much care that the person doing the job may not be a music professional. This is a point which has been made time and time again in these forums. Basically ANYONE who has the ability to listen to music is QUALIFIED to give their opinion on a performance.

Singing is a PERFORMANCE art and the final, most IMPORTANT judge of any performance is... the AUDIENCE. That's right, lil ol' me & you, and as long as we are taking the time to actually listen and try to provide honest feedback, those who truly want feedback will appreciate it.

The problem arises when you get the 70% of the people who actually USE the 'critique' option, but who ONLY WANT POSITIVE FEEDBACK. I don't really mess with it anymore, but my opinion on that is... too bad!! If the song is great and there is no room for improvement, they should get really positive feedback. If the performance is lacking, and they're asking for critique, they should definitely hear the suggestions for improvement (aka -negative feedback) and not whine about it.

One thing I will concur with. I truly think the ranking and the critiques should be separate, because people who want rankings generally want it for the competitive feel, whereas those who want critiques generally just want the honest feedback. Therefore, I propose another change.

Either remove ranking altogether, or create a separate 'critique only' category.

I honestly think THAT would appeal to the more 'serious' music crowd much more than the current setup.

The categories could then be..

"Critique Me" (Just the fax, mam)
"Rank & Comment" (Fluff me AND give me a 10!!!)
"JFF" (Just For Fluff... errr I mean 'fun')
and "Listen Only" (I'm just learning to use the upload feature)

Jeff,  this is part of the problem; "Critique" MUST NOT be confused with the term "Criticism" and I addressed this in an earlier summary within the critique thread. Those Critiquing (are taught VERY early on) about the HUGE difference in terminology. The two terms are black and white in their intent (not to mention delivery).

"Critique" is not Criticizing a person.  The terms have different definitions. Critique is NOT condescension and negative..  I wish people would understand what the term actually means. While I've had the "Drill Sgt knock'em off the pedestal" approach taken towards me MANY times in professional music upbringing it's NOT for most, and it's likely passe these days.

It's an honor when a person takes the time to help another unselfishly to improve..  Consequently it sickens me what goes on in the showcase given the all too often current exploitation of a process designed to be ONLY positive. Positive interaction requires mature individuals at both the giving as well as the receiving end.. It also requires both have the ability for humility, and willingness to be able to admit, (or transcend) fantasy, the ability to say:
"I'm not REALLY an "8", "9", or "10" averaging rank vocalist when the 50 songs I've submitted are averaged out".
How many are ?  How many can be ?   Why is this so important ?   IOW.. People DO ask for critiques and don't realize that the most helpful honest critique isn't the bouquet of flowers thrown !!

In my own opinion, what has happened to a few of the members here that honestly WISHED for a process to work over in the showcase is nothing short of a sin, and disservice to those that REALLY recognise they aren't gods gift to singing, however one day they (in this case) "we" hope to be better singers !

The TRUE reasons Critique doesn't work over in the showcase can be one of several reasons IMHO..
   Many aren't that serious about their ability as singers and don't care to be around those that are, and the intensity involved at times. Singers Showcase CAN NOT exist as both a state of Real and Fantasy simultaneously across the board.  Some don't wish to have ANY exposure to the hard work entailed in even being or remaining a "6" or "7" rank average vocalist.. Serious singers do !  The more songs you sing, the further your average MUST fall.. How can it not assuming the average rank starts as 9 or 10 ?

  Many are too lazy to look the term :Critique: up, and learn what it means. They just sub in the category foolishly trashing those of us that DO know what the term means. Those of us that do, and have made the logical assumption that those who sub for critique DO in fact recognize and state their honest needs, have gotten beat up, is it the fault of the person offering the critique assuming it's tactfully delivered ? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Those that do not take singing, and the process of Critique at all seriously yet say "It doesn't belong because if I don't wish to improve as a singer and wish for this to be fun I must stay in an environment that does not coexist with a certain element of intensity required to improve" DON'T wish to see a process that reminds them that to be good in an area is HARD work, NOT all get a gold star for performance in the real world, but singers should also have an oppt to help each other in a real setting EVEN assuming this site is "Karaoke".  Karaoke doesn't have to exclude :singers: or :musicians:.  Singers Showcase is NOT a Critique friendly site.. Too many ARE '9's and 10's in the showcase AND whether the rest of the world knows this, cares or not is moot, because those that insist on staying that fabulous (in their head) have every right to get together and have fun !! It's not WRONG, but it can't coexist with Critique because it contrasts fantasyland WAY too much.  It's just *THAT* good over there  :no: ... Critique burst the bubble.
  Many aren't mature enough on EITHER end of the process to transcend ego, and learn SOME tact must be applied in delivery AND find it easier to just use Critiquing as a vehicle to deliver the camouflaged bash hurting ALL exposed to the fallout. This is horrible when it happens, but it does and will in such an environment. While meant to be a positive process, it becomes a vehicle for sabbotage for some, and the fallout affects many.

Without a strong enough core to keep this on track, it is VERY tough to get it to work. Odds are at some point Critique will always be met with some resistence.  In knowing this, it helps create the beginning to a solution.  We need a room such as the thread created in this forum to be moderated. Which in most cases means Self-moderating, however this can't work 100% of the time.  Hence room moderators.

Critique has a definition already.  What it means is not a mystery to those that look the term up.  The fact that many in showcase wish to redefine the term poses a conflict.  The biggest difference in these two terms is attitude, meaning Critique must ONLY be "Constructive" in its attempt. I admit, MOST of the time, the deliniation between Critique, and Criticism is not clearly defined or referenced just be looking in the standard Websters dictionary hence this might be PART of the problem, yet "intent" and "delivery" or methodology of the process is VERY different.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The difference between critiquing and criticizing is very important — and you don't find this difference in any dictionary. When you give a critique, you offer well-reasoned, pointed, clear criticism with an eye to possible solutions. When you criticize, on the other hand, you offer a judgment about why something is bad. Writers tend to be a sensitive lot, and a critical evaluation that is mean-spirited isn't helpful to the writer's creative process. So watch your tongue. You could be the one at the other end some day.


(this is in "Critique for dummies",  what applies to writers, artists, even applies to musicians)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

When I think of Critique versus Criticize I think of writing an English paper or critique in college which is basically a description. It is a description that is broken down and analyzed. To criticize on the other hand as far as I understand is a negative concept whereby someone finds fault with another or with a process, or thing.

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The Truth Is Out There