Karaoke Forums

Once in a while i have run in to a problem or people i sold a system to have a problem.  Therefore i have been on the phone during a show to either help someone or to get help.  It's not a crime.  You need to do whatever it takes to make the show go on.

It's nice to know that whenever i or someone needs help it can be obtained quickly without a court order.

You need to do whatever it takes to get your show running.  The competition is doing it right.  You must not be.  

Work is easy to find or get or keep, if you are good.

I think K-Gurl is scared of computers.  I've been running my show for 7 years.  I still have the original bar that I booked when I started.  Not only that, all the other bars in town (of 6,000 people)  booked me on the nights that I wasn't there.  They all got rid of that crabby alcoholic for me because I put on a good show.  I have been running a PC based system for 5 years with only one crash.  I had a backup at home.  My wife ran and got it and in less than 20 minutes I was back up.  Try that with one of your scratched CD's.  Or better yet, optical drives go out over time, too.  There is nothing wrong with not wanting to carry 1000+ cdg's around in a giant coffin.  It makes my fused back hurt just thinking about it.  If they outlaw PC based systems, I will quit.  I'll never spin another CD again.

There's a KJ in my area that refused to go PC.  They were charging $250 per night, with three systems running 6 nights a week. Their following was a bunch of pop drinkers.  Full bar would bring in  $100.00.  They might have 20 of "their crowd" and 40 others.  The 20 would sing all night and the other 40 would be lucky if they sang once.  They now play one system one night a week and some irregular dates.  Yet, they blame the PC based systems for their downfall.  

It's hard to look in the mirror and say, "I am to blame for my business failure."

Sidewinder, what's included in the systems you sell?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I have only sold one and it was an entire PA/karaoke system.  The music was legal, if that's where this is heading.  It contained 2 players and discs.   They have now switched over to computer.

"Fact:  There are some bars that just won't pay more than $75-$100per night"

This is a FACT.  I am working at one right now, however under the current understanding if the "Z-out" and the pick up in crowd warrents is, I want more money.  Although the two really shouldn't have anything to do with each other.  A few times, he's came through and paid extra.  A few times, I've waived off nights because of no crowd.  I keep going back because, I'm workable...they keep bringing me back, because I'm workable.  It's a good working relationship.  The place is new ownership, middle of remodeling, middle of nowhere.  So at best the crowd is very inconsistant....MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

A bar is willing to pay for entertainment what it is worth to them.

That is a combination of how much it is going to get them in extra money and building their business. Unless the bar charges a lot for drinks or the entertainment attracts a huge crowd they cant pay too much for enteratinment.

Karaoke unlike bands is not well suited to draw huge crowds. Even if only half of the customers want to sing, it is not realistic to expect more than 30 singers in the bar + another 30 non singers. With over 30 singers the wait would be too long to attract additional singers. Assume the same bar may have 10 or so people with no entertainment the maximum "draw" of a karaoke is probably on the order of 50 additonal people in the door.

If those additional people are heavy drinkers buying expensive mixed drinks or beers, then sure $200 or more is reasonable.

How much the kj is worth is really just a measure of how much they earn the bar. A kj may not be worth even $50 to the bar if they dont attract many people. Sure it is easy to blame the pirates, but many of the people that put on a show with pirated songs are not really dedicated to it, and do a poor job at being KJs.

Also realize that many of the KJs enjoy being KJs and will even do it for free in the right setting. I personally do my show for drinks only at my bar, but at the same time I am not at all interested in doing shows at several other places that dont attract the kind of crowd I want to be around. I have had another bar show interest in hireing me for a regular gig because I was a better KJ than their current one. I was not interested, even though that would have been a paying gig.

The reason that KJs cant "command" a high price is that many people think it is a fun thing to do, and they are willing to do shows for $75 a night or less. With the normal wear and tear on equipment, cost of gas, setup and prep time etc that will often come to less than $10 an hour. Therefore most kjs are doing it for fun. Some do a poor job of it, others do a good job.

The most important thing to remember though, is that when people are doing something for "fun" it is different than doing it as a job. The target bar patron is in the door of the bar because he/she is willing to pay for $25 or more dollars worth of "fun". Personally I think I get a lot more personal "fun" out of being a kj and for me it is worth $100 or more a night in the right setting, hence I do my (regular) shows for free. I have fun.

Now you may sob about that and condem me for stealing your job, but as far as I am concerned you only have two options. Prove you can do a better job than me or people like me and run a better show that attracts more people in the bar, or find a different line of work. I have bought all of my songs legally from legit sources (so far as I could tell).

Yes I put out a tip jar, not only because I would like the money but because it makes me feel good when people appreciate my show.

I personally think as big a threat to good karaoke is the multiple rig groups that try to control all the karaoke of a region. These are the ones that complain loudest about the pirated karaoke, mainly because they are only in it to make money. The kjs that are in the business because they enjoy doing it just put on a better show than thier competition. That is what earns the $250 fee, not just the investment per rig.

The best system in town does not mean the best show in town. The best karaoke show in my town for a long time was someone with a bad system and pretty much a songlist that was 90% Sweet Georgia Brown. He managed to make up for his lack of gear with personality. The guy has since moved away but he put on a good show. I don't know what he was paid, but he was probably worth $250-300 a night. There were many times I went to his show and only got to sing once in 4 hours.

He could have even been better with an improved songlist and better sound syste, but he put on a better show than his competition who had 5-10 times the investment. His good personality attracted the right crowd and there were MANY regulars.

If all you have going for you is 100k songs or a $10,000+ sound system, that is not going to make you a good KJ it takes a lot more than that. How one handles the drunks, flatters the good singers, offeres encouragement, and where needed discourages those who are disrupting the show is usually much more important than the difference between 5000 and 50,000 songs or an extra few thousand dollars on the sound system.

What's the point for singers to go to a show and only sing once.  Grant me, some of you will say 'cause they like to watch'.  Voyeurs!  Seriously, when I was a singer, I would seek out a show that I could get in a few songs a night at least.  

I would just as soon go to the DMV, wait the four hours and get to do what I came to do once.  Maybe a bad analogy ...

"Fact:  There are some bars that just won't pay more than $75-$100per night"


They deserve the no talent KJ or DJ that can only ask that much.   Would work for food if given the option.  Can not get a job because they are good.  Only because they are cheap.  There is big differene.

You set the price you want.  They don't tell me how much i'm worth.

If they said we pay $25 would you work there?

I tell them my price.  If they can not afford me, i'll take my show down the road.

Do you tell the Doctor how much you want to pay for his treatment?  If he's too high you go to the HMO doctor.

They can get the HMO KJ.

How many of you clowns have a regular business license and pay taxes on the wages you get? You wanna get legal? Then let's start posting a tax number. From now on if you want to give legal advice here then preface posts with a tax number and provide me with a lawyers degree or certificate. I am tired of this BS. And so is everybody else.

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Ok you like to sing. Say you wish to sing 1 time an hour.

Find a bar with 15 people or less going there to sing karaoke.

Say they buy a beer/drink an hour or even two. Profit for the bar $3-4 per person per hour. 3 hour show. Total profit about $150 dollars. Bar takes half.

$75 is what the KJ is worth at most.

Say the 15 people are not drinkers and mainly singers. They buy 1 cheap beer an hour, profit for the bar $15 an hour (after expenses). Total take from the 3 hour show $50. Bar takes half, kj is worth $25.

Don't pretend a KJ is worth more than that in such a setting.

THe alternate options are to KJ for drunks that spend $40 bar bills a night, or fill a club with non singers. Or singers that get to sing one or two times a night. Neither is to my taste. My friends and I like to sing, not get wasted or wait.

Well said Karyoker!  I personaly do not have a tax number, Because I was told that since i A, do not have any employees (I do sub contract , my co host has a contracting company that he runs his income through ). and B, I do not sell any products , only services. I can use my social (no I will not post that). I do have a legitamate bank account in the buisness name , and do report income from my shows. I would agree that most here probably do not. Tax fraud is a much bigger deal than copyright infringement (5 to 10 as Bubba's beotch). think about that one people!

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the voices arent real, but they have some good ideas

HERE HE goes foaming at the mouth again!!!!

Blah blah Blah......if you can't J-O-I-N a discussion and GIVE an opinion on something useful to other people  "Mr. Karyoker-Know-Nothing"...then EYEBALL ANOTHER FORUM and try peddling your worthless rants and put-downs somewhere else.

AND DON'T falsify garner that others share your ridiculous ego-driven posts either, Ollie. You're simply off-base and very unprofessional.

Besides, WHO is giving legal advice here? I only hear opinions. And a business license and tax id number or EIN number would prove exactly WHAT to you?

Aren't YOU just a CO-HOST who recently just got a raise to $175 and have to split it with the real host? OH PLEEEEZE correct me if i'm wrong!!

Perhaps we should take a poll on whether ANYONE (other than supercharged on this one) agrees with ANY of your off-the-wall rants and ego trips! I HAVE seen a few of your DECENT informative posts before BUT you ruin any "earned credibility or respect" when you unjustly put others down. You come across as the REAL BOZO here, so don't call others clowns.

....MY apologies to others here on this nice forum and for the temporary hijacking of this thread. I believe MOST here just ignore or roll-eyeballs (where's that emoticon?) whenever HE SPEWS, but let's maintain a little order here without insults.

PM ME Ollie if you wanna talk shop or pick on someone.   j.r.

So far I have not had to pay taxes, been doing it less than a year. But my income is far less than my expenses (so far), so I can deduct my expenses up to my karaoke income from my taxes. I have talked to a tax accountant on the subject.

I suspect that for most karaoke hosts who do only one show a week they would be in a similar situation for at least the first year or two, even if they get good pay for their shows.

Depending on your state laws many karaoke "busineses" do not require a business license. This is especially the case if they do not "employ", one simply needs to declare the karaoke income on their personal tax form.

Plenty of people know about taxes, law and other subjects without a Legal degree, or certificate. Many who do have such certifications can also be wrong.

So you pay taxes Karaoker? Do you keep track of your tips for tax purposes? I am.

A tax ID number is for people buying products for resale.  They don't pay the tax on the wholesale item. They only pay tax after the item is sold at retail, including the tax.  That is what they pay.  They send in the sales tax with a tax ID number.  Been there and done that.  

Do You Need an EIN?
 
You will need an EIN if you answer "Yes" to any of the following questions. For your convenience, clicking on the "Yes" option will take you directly to How to apply for an EIN.

Do you have employees?
YES  NO

Do you operate your business as a corporation or a partnership?
YES  NO

Do you file any of these tax returns: Employment, Excise, or Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms?
YES  NO

Do you withhold taxes on income, other than wages, paid to a non-resident alien?
YES  NO

Do you have a Keogh plan?
YES  NO

Are you involved with any of the following types of organizations?

Trusts, except certain grantor-owned revocable trusts, IRAs, Exempt Organization Business Income Tax Returns
Estates
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YES  NO



References/Related Topics


Employer ID Numbers (EINs)

Don't see anything about KJs, do you.  We don't fit into this catagory either.  Unless you are claiming employees.  Most work as an independant contractor or self employed.

"Well said Karyoker!  I personaly do not have a tax number, Because I was told that since i A, do not have any employees (I do sub contract , my co host has a contracting company that he runs his income through ). and B, I do not sell any products , only services. I can use my social (no I will not post that). I do have a legitamate bank account in the buisness name , and do report income from my shows. I would agree that most here probably do not. Tax fraud is a much bigger deal than copyright infringement (5 to 10 as Bubba's beotch). think about that one people!"

A big ole DITTO, this is also MrD!

_________________
[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Every venue I do reports income to the IRS as if I was an employee, I have them withhold taxes as it is easier for me to have them do it. Then I take my normal write off's.

I agree with some of the things you say Ollie, but listing a tax I.D. number is not one of them.

It does however make a good point, that many folks who point fingers at the illegal activities of others are in fact doing illegal things themselves in other areas of their business. Not everyone falls into this category but your point is well taken.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

To put things back in perspective. I am 68 years old and supplement social security with a few hundred dollars a month. I dont even pay income tax anymore. My rants are not generated by a single thread or or  few posters. They are from over 3 years of posts on this forum trying to tell me how bad I am and insulting me like a horse thief. I AM TIRED OF IT!!! Stealing horses is a well known crime. Digital karaoke laws have not even been legislated yet. OK nows the time for everybody to sit down have another beer!!!!

No I do not pay taxes on my business but we do freebies for rest homes and AA clubs..

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Dr Fred,

While some of what you say is true, Only a Fool is going to spend $5,000 on a sound system, $10,000 + on music, and $2,000 on a trailer then haul it to a bar just so he can sing for free or Drinks as it may be.

I don't see anyone but a Pure Drunk Hauling a show to a bar and playing for $25.00 and hour Unless he is an Escapee from a mental Institution.

If you are comfortable as a Charity, so be it.  A businessman, you're not. as long as you do shows in your area for Dirt, then that is all the market will pay. Keep ruining Your market the only one you are hurting is yourself.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

$25 an hour?

Ouch... that's pretty much a given that's the rate here for smaller bars!

Guess I'm in that category.