Karaoke Forums

The title of the thread says external sound cards and mixers.  The same goes for the quality of the mixer.   And all of the other PA equipment the sound travels through to come out of the speakers.    The sound equipment runs the gamut of quality too.

How much is a good mixer?

Amplifer?

Speakers?

Wires?

EQ?

These all effect how the sound card sounds.    Every one of these components if they are not of high quality takes a little bit away from the total sound.

Say the low quality computer takes away only 3% of the sound quality.

And the low quality mixer only takes away 3%.

And the low quality rip only 3%.

And on down the line.  These litlle bits add up.   Buy the time it comes out of the speakers you won't hear a squeak.

So the bottom line is, can you really afford to skimp on any or all of the total components?    I say not.   They all have the potential to be big weak links.

Amen, Sidewinder...

an added note- storage and memory shouldn't be an issue for PC users anymore...

you can buy a 500GB external USB/firewire drive for between $100-$180 bucks depending on brand... you can also buy a 1TB NAS center for under $350 bucks... need more space inside your laptop? 250GB SATA notebook drives cost around $140...you can buy 750GB SATA desktop drive for $150-$200 or 1TB SATA drive for $240-$280...

memory is cheap as heII too...
Desktop
2GB PC5300 DDR2 DIMM (1X2GB)     $48
2GB DDR2 2GB PC6400 (2X1GB)    $38 after rebate
2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 (2X1GB)    $50
1GB DDR PC2700 (1X1GB)    $43
2GB DDR2 PC8500 (2X1GB)    $65
4GB DDR2 PC6400 (4X1GB)    $100
Laptop
2GB PC2-4200 SODIMM (2X1GB)  $40
4GB DDR2 PC5300 (2X2GB)    $73
1GB DDR2 PC5300 (1X1GB)   $8 after rebate
4GB DDR2 PC5300 (2X2GB)   $75

Video cards (desktop)
512MB  $69-$200 whatever your budget can afford or your brand preference
vid cards also come in 640MB and 768MB cards and the price fits accordingly...

Sound cards
External
E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Sound Card $200
E-MU 0202 USB 2.0  $130
I.SOUND 5.1 USB 1.1 External Sound Card   $35
Internal
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio $60
E-MU 1212M PCI Card $150
CREATIVE X-Fi ELITE PRO $300


Misc hardware
7 port USB 2.0 hub   $50
5 port USB 2.0 Wireless hub  $90
22" LCD Display  $250
19" LCD Display  $170

I didn't list any motherboard/chipset combos simply because that is usually personal preference of what chip platform and how fast of a processor you think you need, maximum memory, number of card slots etc...  

you can build a new PC, or upgrade an old one, for a VERY reasonable amount of money.  storage capacity is always increasing (I have over 7TB on my main home PC) and memory cost/capacity has also decreased substantially.  Buy a mid range motherboard/CPU combo and you can put a decent barebones PC together fairly cheap.  Add on a few of the extra toys and you can easily have a show PC that does everything you want, and more, for easily under a thousand bucks.  it all depends on your budget, personal tastes, techno savvy to put it all together and the experience to make the stuff perform at it's highest performance...

just a side note- I have been building and running the DJ portion of my mobile off of a PC since 1997 and started running the karaoke portion of my mobile off of PC starting in 1999.  I have used MANY different configurations of computers, from old dinosaurs to screaming machines, desktops to laptops hooked up in various configurations of DJ equipment- mixers, amps, CD/LD/VCD/CDG players and TV/video systems.   I do suggest that if you have NO experience in tearing a PC apart or building a new one from components that you buy an off the shelf PC that you will never open or need to upgrade to run your show from.  

Bottomline:
 There are MANY MANY combinations of computer hardware that will do what you need it to do for your show.  All of them are right IF they fulfill the need of the operator and the requirements of the gig.  Would I love to use a $1000 video card? or a top of the line audio card? motherboard? CPU? of course I would, who wouldn't, but is it necessary to run a quality show?  nope.  Most problems I have ever encountered in building, repairing and troubleshooting computers (especially DJ rigs) are OPERATOR ERROR, not the hardware or software's fault.  Too many extra programs installed on their show machine cause conflicts/errors or they are trying to make the hardware do things it wasn't intended to do.  You can have a state of the art sound system and PC rig but if you are an idiot then nothing is going to make it sound good, IMHO....  I dunno the point I originally was trying to make but this should give readers some bones to chew on...

Tig

BTW the prices I quoted were from just 1 site-  http://www.outpost.com (fryes) so ya may be able to find even better prices if you research and compare... good luck...

tig

yup... one of my favorite places to find quotes is www.pricewatch.com

Excellent list!

Knightshow,  I was hoping to hear from you on this.   I've enjoyed reading your earlier posts on external sound cards.  I went with a creative that plugs into the pcmcia port.  It hasen't arrived yet.   Cost was cheap on ebay and  we'll see if it improves the sound.  One thing I think it will give me is more control over my sound as it leaves the coputer.  

For my small gigs i plan on running my computer through an older yamaha small powered mixer.  It has two powered stereo outs (30 watts each at 8 ohms) and two monitor outs.   In addition to 6 channels it also has a couple of rca inputs, one of which has a volume control knob.

I had to travel over 300 miles for a wedding a couple of months ago (i committed to the job and then moved) and downsized from my regular 15"speakers to a smaller 12" crate pair for the job.  They worked great and everyone had a good time.  It got me to thinkin,  hmmm why am i lugging all this equipment around.


Now I plan on using the monitor outs on the yamaha to my peavy 260 monitor amp.  The peavey has an eq and pushes 130 watts.  I'll use the peavey as my mains and the yamaha to run my monitors

I'm also downsizing my monitor speakers from 12" to 10".   Switching to these components and a computer really shrinks the equipment I need to do a show.

All this stuff will fit into the trunk of my car vs.  hauling a trailer around.

By the way I haven't settled on a software program yet.  Right now I'm using siglos.  


Thanks again for the responses

well, I'm not near the audiophile that Tig or Lonnie is. I always have deferred to Tig in the computer and audio arenas!

I DO like my Soundblaster MP3+ USB device... and for smaller venues, since my amp is a mixer/amp, I can use a USB 2 channel mixer as I run my mics thru the amp/mixer. So I don't need it for that. The 2 channel mixer hooks straight to the computer!

For larger venues, though, I have my Mackie DFX12 (even though I WISH I had gotten the CFX model!)... so for that, I'll go back to the Soundblaster unit.

Alhough it's near impossible to find that MP3+ device, zzounds has a similar unit for converting USB to RCA.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHUCA202

Cables DO Make a difference in sound quality and the quality is NOT determine by price! You can be using the best sound card but when used with the wrong cables you'll get poor results.  In a studio setup, Cables are the second most important priority after the hardware. I finally managed to get the perfect cable match to my Emu-1212m and I tell you, day & night difference and I wasn't using low end cables before...

Now, I can officially say that my onboard or even my Audigy2 ZS laptop PCMCIA card can't match this, a HUGE step for sure, my monitors now has this incredible sound I've been searching for!!

Cables; make sure to test them, THEY play a very important part in sound quality and again, pricing is not what determines the quality, TEST THEM and compare with you ears!!

I bought the Audigy PCMCIA card, and I loved the sound, but didn't like the software interface. If you can stand Creative's software, that is a great card though. I  turned around and sold the Audigy.

I went to a Turtle Beach USB, only because I like their software, and am more familuar with it.

The one thing that very few have talked about in this thread is software. With an internal sound card (the one that comes with the computer), what software to you get? A windows volume control? With the external cards, you get a full software suite that let's you use the card better. I use my 11 band digital equalizer all the time.

Beldin 8412. Any double shielded cable is adequate for audio.  The transfer  of quality audio is determined more by the output impedance of the isolation amp feeding the cable and value of the termination on the receiving end than cable impedance or quality. This applies whether with short rack feeds or long audio cable feeds.

The arguments presented in these forums about cable quality and such  might apply to high frequency and above radio frequencies but is not critical at audio frequencies. The important thing is shielding against external interference which destroys audio quality whether it is in the auditory range or not.

For mic cables use Beldin 8412 which has proven non stretch features (It is the industry standard and  is not cheap) and Nuetrik NC-3 connectors.

And BTW we test cables with spectrum analysis and careful lab tests, not by auditory hit or miss analysis. Just curious what do you use for tests? Country or pop music?

It's funny that you mentionned about software cos it's the reason I installed my audigy pcmcia card on my laptop! I'm using the EAX Console that offers THE best key changer on the market (my opinion after many testing).  I tried using my Emu-1212m with the EAX Console but it won't work, so, had no choice.  Honestly, the EAX software are VERY good and offers great DSP when you take the time to learn all the possibilities. You would be surprised to hear what I did with some of the karaoke tracks using EAX Console. I'm using Cubase, Wavelab and many other pro sofware that can't allow me to do what I need, which is changing the key to my desire key without ANY glitch, so far, didn't find anything!!

Micky,

I really didn't spend the time to learn the software, I just didn't feel comfortable with it. It an old guy thing. You get used to something, and it's hard to change. It sound like I should have taken the time to figure it out.

I hear you and it's not an old thing btw, I almost gave up at a certain time  I once served as a beta tester for a keychanger software company and the EAX Console was the software they were trying to match, that key changer is just perfect, cannot find another word to describe, any changes done at +/- 2 half tone are excellent and you can also change the tempo with out a single glitch or sound detoriation.  If I can, I'll try to demonstrate the before and after, let me see what I can do...

Right now I plan on using the audio out on the creative sound card straight to my mixer.   Does anyone see a problem with that. Should I go with a small usb interface and then into my mixer?

Again thanks for the comments

not a problem, it's how it should be done  No need to get a USB device if you own a PCI or PCMCIA card? USB are not necessary better, they just offer another option.

Finally, here's a demonstration of the EAX Console key changer using the Legend vol 107:

That's the original compressed at 192k using a Lame encoder in Wavelab:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/699e1321-cead ... iginal-key)

This one was brought down 2 half step using the EAX Console that comes with the Audigy2 ZS PCMCIA card, also compressed at 192k:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/71375f75-788a ... eeling-(-2)

Is that perfection or what? No glitch, rubber sounding effects or any other strange noise!

Try this:
Do the same but using another 'good' key changer or even better 2 or more other key changers.

Then, do the reverse; step up 2.5x

The way you are doing it, you have nothing to compare the result with, other than the original.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

You're right but my intention was to demonstrate how good this one is  Now, I don't mind doing a test like you're suggestion but it's gonna hurt, I tell you, it's not even funny the comparaison and I wouldn't want to get myself in trouble showing how bad all the key changers are  Some are freeware but some are not and believe me, none will come close to this especially if I use a slow track with a piano

What is up 2.5x??? I think the limit should always be +/- 2 half steps, if you can't singing it, well, I suggest finding another backing or sing something else.

I have a song i sing up 3.

And one i sing down 4.

Hmmm, would want to hear how it sounds, not you but the backing

Saying that it is good without comparing it to others is not enough
2 and half step up is when a lady need to sing to a male backing track.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott