Karaoke Forums

That's a very elitist attitude! You are saying that your musical tastes are better than "theirs." That's a VERY ignorant thing to say. Shows that the modern music world has passed you by.

Some of the best art in the world is based on vulgarity. Lysistrata, Inferno, Canturbury Tales, The Monk, Francis Bacon just off the top of my head. Were Dante and Chaucer not "connoisseurs" like you?

Just because a lyric contains words or innuendo considered vulgar doesn't automatically preclude it from artistic merit. Sometimes the vulgarity is even required. Vulgarity, after all, is defined by society. Vularity isn't a universal truth, it is an artificial substrate of the culture where you live!

Nine Inch Nails is rediculously influencial to modern music. Name YOUR 10 favorite bands of the 80s and 90s, and I could sucessfully argue that Trent Reznor is MORE influencial than any of them to modern music. Trent Reznor was THE major pioneer of melodic electronic rock, which is a MAJOR part of today's popular music. NIN and Stabbing Westward were the first bands to take 80s electronic pop and merge it with European techno/electronica and rock to create a whole new genre. Without NIN, there is no Limp Bizkit, Filter, Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, and about 1/2 of the rock acts performing today. Even Johnny Cash covered some NIN songs. He won a grammy for covering NIN's song "Hurt." Oh, and that song has some dirty little curse words

Now, I know you are going to say that YOU don't like that style of music, but again, that doesn't negate its artistic merit. Trent Reznor has done as much to influence modern music as anyone in the last 15 years. When you hear the song "Closer," you are hearing something unique that had never cracked the charts of popular music until Trent Reznor came along.

So it isn't all just shock value. That song is important to modern music, and while I'll admit that your typical kid that gets up and sings that song probably doesn't know the history of it, they do know one thing - there is NO ignoring that song.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Beautifully said !

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

blah blah blah blah blah! It's not rocket science. It's all about money! Good post Bill, point in case. Someone left, the bar lost revenue. But on the other hand, if Bill would have cut the song, how many people might have left and never came back? Depends on the venue, the type of crowd and the time! You can't please anybody so like a politician,,,,, get the most votes you can.

My book has it all. I also have a disclaimer in my book stating "We reserve the right,,,, and a few times I have went out in the audience and tracked down a singer and let them know that they can't sing that particular song at this particular time.

Several posters on this thread seem to have had someone pee in their Cheerios?

Karaoke on!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I love the song "Holiday" by Greenday musically i think it's great and i really love the sound of the drums. But there is a disturbing line in there i absolutely hate and i find it highly offensive.

The line says "Kill all the Fags" now whether it's meant literally or figuratively it's disturbing to me. Suppose it said kill all the white people or all the "N" word or all the Nuns or any other group you can name?

I don't think songs about suggesting the "killing" anyone is appropriate for a public venue.

Listening to the song "Closer" on the radio will contain more silent spots than words. What does that tell you about the song? And about the quality of the listeners and the radio stations? Why doesn't anyone complain to the stations to play more porn?

Most of the modern groups wouldn't get listened to if they didn't swear in them. That's the draw. How has rap music benefitted the quality of life on earth? The earth would probably look like Mars without it.

Kill the fags, kill Earl what's the dif. If you don't like the line, change it to "Kiss the gays". Problem solved. There will always be something offensive to someone.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

[quote="UncleFire @ Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:24 pm"]Geez, while we're at it, let's ban "Before He Cheats". I don't think there are any (many) cuss words, but the majority of the song is about some scorn woman trashing a guys truck.

quote]

Oh, come on!!! He deserved it!! He was in the bar cheating with some fine karaoke singer. You can't ban it!! The women go crazy!!!

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

This would save a friend of mine some trouble to dump this song. Everytime it's sung, he feels the need to check his truck. And he's nowhere near being the jerk in the song.

How has rap music benefited the quality of life on earth?

Of course there is good rap and bad rap, just like there is good rock and bad rock, good people and bad people. There are HUNDREDS of socially-conscious rap groups that give posititve messages, like Tribe Called Quest, Fugees/Wyclef Jean, Spearhead, Mos Def, Pharcyde, Digable Planets, De La Soul (who is also the rap component of the Gorillas), The Roots (also the house band for the Jimmy Kimmel show), Arrested Development, Jurrasic Five.

These are just the multi-million album selling artists. There are tons more with regional/local POSITIVE influence on people's everyday lives.

Even gansta rap and the pop rap you hear on the radio has INFINITELY benefited this country. It is the only exposure to music many young white, black, hispanic, and asian kids have, and for those with positive attitudes, even the negative rap provides an outlet through music that helps keep kids out of trouble. There are COUNTLESS polititians, business owners, athletes, etc. who were influenced by the likes of Public Enemy and NWA to overcome life in the inner city and become successful adults in mainstream society.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I can edit out remarks, too.
Let's all try to keep the conversation civil, please.

Topher, i'm a bit surprised at your reaction. You are usually cool headed and don't call people bad names that could get you into trouble.

If you have read Angel910's 53 other or so posts, you would see that SHE (not a dude, right?) speaks before she thinks and seems not very versed in the karaoke business field, in my humbled opinion. And a bit opinionated until proven wrong- not open minded like a lot of folks here.

She will eventually learn it's better to think before engaging foot in mouth, but you really didn't have to BLAST her that hard..did you?? Hard week???

I have benefited from reading some of your 1050 or so posts, so for you to get bent outta shape like that from a newbie (in many senses of the word) is kinda weird to witness...topher meltdown? Hope not. I like you too much Toph!!!!

And to the critics here.... NO, someone doesn't need 1000 posts to be valid or valued, but the quality of the posts do hold a lot of credibility. This is why i usually remain quiet.

JR, I was just really offended that someone would say a whole, legitimate genre of music has never "benefitted the quality of life on earth."

You are right, though, I overreacted. And you are correct in saying that this gal probably isn't goiong to make it far in the karaoke business if she has no repect or historical/social perspective on MUSIC itself!

But I do apologize if I went too far. I just edited teh post to take out the name-calling and stick to the facts.

That one did strike a nerve, though.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I totally got where you were coming from, although couldn't get myself to type that out. You did the right thing by correcting yourself in my opinion, and your credibility is still intact. Don't waste too much time on this one...

Topher I read your post after the edit and think it was brilliant. I'm glad you edited it although I didn't see it before hand.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

We're mixing a lot of things together in this thread. Most music is "Art" in the general sense. Now, just like paintings or other art forms, there's junk and there's good stuff-- all in the eye (or ear) of the beholder.

I personally don't like Rap for the most part (some stuff I do like though-- diff. topic). But objectively one cannot deny that it (and hip-hop) is an art form. While much of it these days is about being in the club etc. There were quite a few "artists" that talked about life from their point of view-- violent, yes. vulgar, yes.

Cussing for the sake of cussing, to me, adds nothing to the song really. However, in the right context it fits/works whether you like or not.

I listen to quite a few bands (mostly Rock). But consider artists like Tool who have tons of strange subjects, drug ref's, commentary on religion, government, society. Sure its vulgar to many people, buts also very emotionally driven and angry. Sure there's tons of trite and pure pop-corn kinda music. But isn't music really about evoking an emotion or to send a message?

Now, w.r.t. to being appropriate-- again its what the crowd is wiling to deal with. If somebody leaves b/c of a cuss word, well its on them and frankly strange to me. Sure if the whole night if full of cuss filled words it would be cause to say I've had enough. But a few songs here and there? Are people that prudish and sensitive that they've never heard cuss words and willing to cut their night short b/c of it? I'll again throw out the caveat that it needs to be age appropriate.

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For those about to rock, we salute you!!!

A bigger bunch of rationalization and hooey has rarely been placed on offer. INFINITE and COUNTLESS? And what would have been the alternative? Being corrupted by gospel music? Being bored enough to actually read or something? Learn a skill?

If the "gangstas" and tattoo- and pierce-riddled people were dominating the ranks of humanitarians and scientists, that might change my mind. But it looks to me that they are more likely to dominate the police blotter and welfare rolls.

(All in my opinion of course. Seems you have to make that disclaimer even though it is completely obvious.)

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

The song is a commentary on the war, people who push it, the attitudes of the conservative and religious right.

The line in question shows that attitude that if you're not with us (in the war) you're against us-- kill all the "proverbial" fags who are against the war.

Being on "Holiday" is that people are oblivious to what's going on. some say its refers to Bush being on holiday so much while in office.

The song has many meanings and can be interpreted in many ways actually.

Again, its emotional commentary on an emotional subject. (Actually the whole theme of the album is commentary on the Bush years and what happened during that time).

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For those about to rock, we salute you!!!

Mcky - My daughter who is in school to be a dentist has tatoos, 8 piercings and likes rap music. She is a great kid ! She doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs.

Although I don't like tatoos, piercings or rap music, she is a responsible adult who can make her own decissions. The tatoos and piercings she does have are tasteful, I'll give her that, but it was against my wishes. It's a different generation then ours.

Tatoos are a sign of the generation now. I can't think of any of her premed friends that don't have one.

I respect your opinion, but I'll just have to disagree. To me all genres of music have some value and I don't believe tatoos or piercings have much to do with it.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Without getting into the Political, or Religious aspects of this thread, I think AGAIN people are tending to make these OUTRAGEOUS statements on BOTH ends of the spectrum. For one, I don't think Rap music will have any more impact on the WORLD than Rock and Roll had before it, or Big Band had before that, or country, or gospel, or whatever. It's music, an art form, it's not the cure for cancer, or anything. Changing the lifestyle of listeners "yes", but changing the "WORLD AS WE KNOW IT", I think not. As for tattooes, and the like, it's a generational thing, just like the hippies before them, and the beatniks before them, AGAIN, not a world changing event. To steal a quote from our dearly departed friend SHEESH!!!

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

OK... my turn to chime in.....

First, I'd like to say to all of those who made a comment along the lines of, "If it's in the/my book...", or "I took those songs out of my book...", you've left out 1 factor. What about people like me who come in with their own discs?






Joannie, I disagree with that. I believe that I am a pretty good singer, and I go to different ends of the spectrum when I get up on stage. I have sung songs like "Barnacle Bill the Sailor," and the place ate it up. I will agree that this song is extremely vulgar, but it has been enjoyed by the crowd as much as anything else. I have not sung that song for SHOCK VALUE either... just for comical relief. Of course, that song has to be done in front of the right type of crowd. Another song that I like to sing (this has been considered a signature song of mine) is "The Pussycat Song." There is not 1 single foul word in the whole song, but it is one of those double-entendre (sp?) songs. I have actually been SHOCKED when I've gone out to a place, and some 60 + year old group of people who recognized me request that I sing that song. There is only one place that I have sung that song, where I will never sing it there again (the reaction was that of crickets). Of course, I will hit the other end of the spectrum, and sing songs like "This is the Moment" or "Music of the Night," and totally WOW! the audience. I have also had the audience in stitches when I sing something like "The Streak."

When I decide to sing a song that has adult content in it, I will first gauge the audience to see if it might go over OK. If there are children present, I would never do it. Don't even ask me if I would sing something like that in front of my Mother (who is currently 93 years old), because the answer is YES... I have sung "Ode to my Car" and "Santa's F***in' Roadies" in front of her (to name a few), and she has laughed at it. She brought me up not to curse, but she also recognizes when it's done in a light-hearted manner. Yes, elderly people do have a sense of humor, and are not as easily offended at Language Content as you might believe.... They've heard it all.

If I am walking into a place that I have never been to before, it may be a little more difficult to gauge the audience, but, I have also approached the KJ and asked if there would be a problem if I sang something with Adult Content or Language Content in it. If they say that I can't, I accept that.... no problem.

Now, if you feel that you can't handle an occasional song being sung that has R-rated or X-rated content in it, that's your business. But, I've been to bars where it is so hypocritical when some people complain about someone singing a song that has Language Content in it, yet they are sitting at the Bar where the people are more foul-mouthed than the songs being sung, and they don't say "BOO" about that, or threaten to leave and never come back if they don't stop cursing.... And some of those same people complaining ARE the foul-mouthed person at the Bar.

Yes, there are songs that I don't like to hear either, but I can put up with it for 3 or 5 minutes. If it's one of those nights where it's one after another, non-stop, I might decide to leave early.... like you, that's my business.

There are many different issues that have been injected into this subject.

Swearing in public. The responsibilty of the KJ, the bar owner or the singer?

Tattoos and piercings being acceptable or not and the projected image.

The contribution of Rap music to society good or bad.

All have a connection to the overall subject.

People that swear in public are generally not looked upon as having much concern for decentcy. Many of whom abuse alcohol and drugs.

Tattoos and piercings are associated with undesirable persons, criminals, drug addicts, biker gangs and sailors. Used by many athletes, sports figures and musicians. Role models? Many of whom have had problems with drug over dose, alcohol and legal troubles.

Many young people want to immulate the gangsta rap music thinking it's the only way to live. They look at these "artists" as role models. They end up living the criminal gang life and ultimately in prison or dead. Using and selling drugs and alcohol abuse, involvement in prostitution and murder.

How will your show be precieved if it contains the majority of these? I don't belive everyone just walks out and says wow that was great.

There will always be generalities and prejudices made about people. About the way they look and the people they hang out with. Many times these stereotypes are correct. If it looks like a banana, smells like a banana and tastes like a banana it must be a banana. Most times what you see is what you get. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. But look at the associations. You party with like minded people. Your friends are like minded people. You are attracted to like minded people.

KJs and bar owners that allow these type of shows must also be that type of person. So what would you and should you expect? Something different or more of the same?

Of all of the Rap groups mentioned before. How many are on karaoke? The songs i see are filled with the gangsta swearing and unpositive role models. There haven't been too many Christian karaoke songs at shows either. The swearing songs are the popular ones.

Your show can take two directions. One of cleanliness or one of filth. I would say that either way it is a reflection of you. The question comes down to you. You are the one that has the power to control your show. You either excercize that power or you abdicate it to the singers. Who owns the business you or the singers? You or the bar owner? You have the right to decide what your reputation will be or you can give it over to the singers and bar owners. Who invested the all money in your business? Who stands to lose all the money?

I throw these out as ideas to ponder and decide upon. You have to live with it.