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Hey guy's, only in rehersal now. While outputting from lappy through usb sound card to a mackie desk, I am feeding back from the desk to the lappys mic. input.
Vocals sound much louder on playback (Cool edit) than the live sound.
WHY...

possibly cos of the mic input...where possible probably better to go line in or external sound module. the mic thingy is way more sensitive.

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Are you playing it back through the same PA?

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Because what you hear is not necessarily what you are going to get.  You sometimes have to take out some effects making the live sound seem kind of dry, but hearing it on the recording may sound just right or even sometimes overpowering.
It has to do with the room acoustics & body absorsion factor, what sounds good on the PA that is set up for that room, may not sound the same on tape.

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I am using the tape out from the mackie 1402vlz to the mic. input on the laptop.
I dont have a line input.
It should give me exactly what goes to the speakers.
When I play it back through the P.A. imediatly after recording it, the vocals are very much louder.
Next rehersal I will try the control room submix out.

The mic input is too sensitive for line level.



If you are handy or DIY here is a simple ckt.

link

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I totaly agree, however I think there must be some limiting going on on the mic. input because the quality is perfect. Also the levels in cool edit are spot on.
Except for the louder vocals you would not know if it was live sound or not.

Look guys, because I'm not a total neewbie does not mean i will dissresect any sugestions put to me. I have ideas. Most of them 20 years old.
Help me out here.
Faulty desk... What...

THe tape out should generate the same signal as the main output.  If it isn't I would say there is something wrong with the board not getting a correct signal to the tape out.  But like I said what you hear isn't necesarily what you are going to get on tape.  A PA setup for a room may sound completely different than the actual recorded version of the same performance.  I have been recording these last few weeks & have noticed even though you can't hear the effects much in the main mix, when I hear it on the recording it's VERY prominent!  Also the vocals i'm getting on the recordings tend to sound too low as opposed to what I hear in the mix.  You aren't in a studio setting where all is controlled.  
When bands do live shows to record for live albums, they don't just take a tape out feed - it would never sound good.  They take a direct patch of each channel & record them individually & remix them back in the studio.  Which may be another option for you.  Most multi track programs allow more than 1 track to be done at a time, just the hardware is needed.  Then do a remix at home - this also allows you to eq & add better effects.

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Lon. I dont as you already assume record to tape.
I record straight to Cool edit on the Lappy.
Quality is perfect.
Seems the Mic. inputs somehow oversound the Line level inputs in my mackie desk.
I can easily compensate by placing the mp3 alongside the recording .
Thing is... is this a desk fault , a pc input fault... or my fault.

I never said you recorded to tape (ok 'to tape' is an industry term for recording be it tape/cd/digital/etc - sorry), I did assume you would be using the tape out on the mixer to record with.
ALl I said is what you hear in the PA is not necessarily what you are going to hear on the recording.  So while your vocals may sound great in the PA, the vocals may in fact seem louder on the recording.
Nobodys fault, you can't expect a perfect mix on a recording that you hear over a PA & expect it to sound identical, other factors play a part.

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I use to record at karaoke and to get the tape to sound right, the PA mix had to sound crappy.   The sound was all wrong live but it made the tape sound good.   I can't remember now if it was the vocals were too loud or the music.   I gave it up because it was too time consuming and i didn't want to sacrifice the show sound just to make a tape.

As Lonman says you may have to adjust the volumes to sound good on the recording and forget how it sounds on the PA.

 I know this probably sounds "wrong", but the way I've recorded ( ok lonnie, I know you're gonna say...."you did ...what??!! ) is to take the  output from the "booth" on my mixer, into the input of whatever recording device I want to use.
 All I have to do is set the "booth " and recording levels and I've been good to go.
It seems to "catch" all the effects PA wise quite nicely, and the recording sounds fine. Something to consider maybe?
             
                   Donny "B"  

Lonman, have you ever heard of doing it that way ?

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Well it's going to be the same signal that the tape out receives as well.  But it's like I said different PA's are going to react in different ways, your's might have worked well where everything you heard is pretty much what you captured in the recording.  Mine is opposite, what I hear in the PA, the vocals are much lower in the recording but the effects are also more prominent.  Jerry is getting hotter vocals in his recording but they sound fine over the PA.

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Thanks for the input guys.
Have just got a DB 15 sub and Peavey PM15 monitor. Will be trying them at rehersal tomorrow.
Will also try the Studio room output. Will let you know.
If not good, I will try the individual outputs.
Just feel really cheated that the tape o/p does not copy the main o/p.
I assume if I had a Y connector from the main R/L o/p It would HAVE to be the same as the live sound...

Hey Jerry - yeah, try a y-connector! How else will we ever know...?

Lonnie - he said earlier "When I play it back through the P.A. imediatly after recording it, the vocals are very much louder. " - so that seems to negate the explanation of it just sounding different when played back later (in a different room)...

P.S. I'm interested because I've been meaning to get around to this for a long time, and planning to do it exactly the same way - Mackie 1402 VLZ tape out to laptop mic in.

P.P.S. Many laptop "mic" inputs are actually more like line inputs - they don't overload like a normal mixer mic-level input.

Well a Y connector from the main outs as expected gave an identical mix.
Dont know if it is a fault on my laptop, or paticular to my model of desk.
Anyone else use a 1402 VLZ

Sorry, should have read
Dont know if its a fault with my desk... not laptop.

Just an idea, does the tape out occur pre or post fader? If the gain settings on the mic's are high and the tape out occurs pre-fader, then the output to the tape would be out of whack. If the tape out occurs post-fader, then that would give another result.

Just elaborating visually:

Pre-fader tape out:

mic -> input on desk -> gain control -> eq -> effects -> tape out -> fader -> speakers

Post-fader tape out:

mic -> input on desk -> gain control -> eq -> effects -> fader -> tape out -> speakers

See what I mean?