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When using powered tops and bottoms, how do you match the volumes so that each can be heard as it should be without one dominating?  

With each amplifier having it's own volume (level) control, when and how do you have it right?    

How many different types and styles of music do you have to play with to find the right mix?

Is there a way to control them (tops & bottoms) individually from a mixer.   Besides the master volume which will control them equally.   Or does it all have to be done at each speaker? (for the initial setup)

Do the amplifier volume (level) settings change from job to job?

By ear is a good place to start with. If you want to get real technical you could use a SPL Meter. Another way to get started would be check the rated spl of the cabinets your using. For example my bottoms are rated at 134db and my tops are rated at 126db, in theory every 3 db equals double the volume, for example 100db is twice as loud to the ear as 97db.


I wouldn't think music type would come into play to much other than the fact that dance music is bottom heavy.


It would have to be done at each speaker to do it properly, although by using your balance and your channel EQ you could make some adjustments so that you would perceive the sound differently.

In the aspect that different rooms respond differently acoustically, and low frequencies tend to be able to get into every little corner of a room and high frequencies travel in straight lines, yes I would imagine that some minor adjustments would need to be made.

I still think if you have a partner or a buddy or for that matter anybody adjust the speaker at your request, while you listen out front, you could get a good balance in short order. I was told by the people I got my speakers from that my bottoms could easily support two of my tops. Perhaps others in here have developed some tricks that work for them. I might be a little hard to follow right now, it is awful early for me.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I am a relative newbie at this, but I understand this is the role of the active crossover. You should set the gain generally on the speakers themselves, and then fine-tune with the crossover frequency, delay, and stage output controls on the crossover. This allows you to properly control the mix from the desk area without visiting the often inconveniently-sited speakers.

Stage location, type of room, and sub placement in the room make giving a single answer to this question impossible. You really just have to use your ears, walk around the place, listen for reinforcements and nulls in the lows, move the subs, walk around some more... Sometimes moving them just a foot or two one way or the other makes a big difference.

But there are times you just have to go with what the place gives you. My current room has the stage along a short wall in the middle of the room with the bathrooms on the other side, and I really can't get ideal sound no matter what I do. I wish the stage was along one of the outside walls......and please just shoot me I'm babbling on and on tied to this computer ripping and ripping and going nutz....

Very good point, it could be done that way as far as upper and lower goes. You'd have to be careful not to hurt your gain structure though. I just wanted to say that all speakers are different, in my particular situation, my uppers and bottoms can be set where no cross over is required. For example if I'm running with a bottom I can just set a switch on the Upper cabinet to run with a sub. I may still use a driverack and set it up full range just so I can make use of the Auto RTA feature in it. I haven't decided on that yet.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

That's why I said "fine tune". Presumably you have the rough gain already set. If the speakers are well-matched, I would expect them to be set near maximum and then controlled by the mains faders....



Can you elaborate on this? Does it essentially perform a low-cut filter function, while the sub  is expected to perform it's low-pass?

Hi mckyj, yes thats the way I understand it, the 15P has a four position switch, when it is i the first position (run without sub) the cabinet will run from 45Hz to 20K. when the switch is moved to the second position (run with LS800P Sub) it engages a filter and the cabinet then runs from 100Hz to 20K and also applies a 2ms delay (roughly about the same as moving the U15P back 27 inches) so that the upper cabinet stays in time alignment with the Sub. It also has a three and four position for use with different type of subs like folded horns.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Aha. It is specially set up for it's mates.

Then if you don't have the matching sub, you should probably just run it in full-range mode and add an active crossover, which will allow all of those parameters to be set.

Well I think that is a yes and no type of thing. I would think most of the upper end subs are going to have a pass filter incorporated in them. It would just be a question of how close the parameters matched. The LS800P runs 45 to 150, I haven't found the slop rate but I'm going to guess it's 24 or possibly 48 as it is DSP controlled. I think i noticed that the QSC version has 150HZ filter so it would work pretty well also. As far as the delay part for time alignment, I would think most of these single front loaded 18's are pretty close size wise so I don't think that would be a major issue. I believe the rough rule is 1ms equals 13.5 inches if I'm not mistaken. Of course cabinets made by the same company would be the best fit as you mentioned.
Ain't technology wonderful.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Your 13.5" is exactly correct.

But I was more thinking of the gain of the lower stage as opposed to the upper. I can see how the proper setting can easily change from venue to venue, so I was more thinking that. Again, it is fine tuning, not gross gain settings.


In fact, I do believe it is!

OK so i see now that using 3-4 powered speakers could be a hit and miss sound nightmare.

It's seems you would not or could not have as much control to make the sound the same night after night.  Without a lot of song playing and room listening.   As you would with passive speakers and 1 or 2 main amplifiers.

When I think back about all the different configurations of PA's i've used and all the headaches from figuring this and figuring that and ...." what?, what do you mean thats not working, crap it worked last night"  I am so looking forward to getting this new setup in a bar, throwing a few cables at it and set back and relax. Well thats the way its going to go in my imagination anyway .

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I'm not to sure I understand why you think there would be a problem, the only difference is the amps are in the speaker instead of a rack, I use to adjust my amps to different rooms without much difficulty in the past. Three of them to be exact, One Amp for bass, One for mids, one for horns. If all else fails I'll break out an SPL meter and set one side, then the other. Simple enough.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I'm not to sure I understand why you think there would be a problem, the only difference is the amps are in the speaker instead of a rack, I use to adjust my amps to different rooms without much difficulty in the past. Three of them to be exact, One Amp for bass, One for mids, one for horns. If all else fails I'll break out an SPL meter and set one side, then the other. Simple enough.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

As I mentioned to you in another thread before & again was mentioned by others here, an external electronic crossover would pretty much solve all of your control issues without having to run to each speaker individually.  Each room being different you can adjust the frequencies to your subs & tops - sometimes the sub needs a little lower frequency where you'd want your tops pushing a tad more, sometimes it's jsut the opposite.  It's all part of tuning your room (a good 31 band plays a part in that).

The dbx 223XL is a perfect crossover for a simple dual sub/dual top setup.

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You are talking about the frequency control.  I'm talking about controlling the volume between the tops and bottoms.   So that the bass speaker isn't louder than the tops or vice versa.   How do you get that mix right?   Can that be controlled by the mixer?

If you just turned all the individual amps the whole way up, would they be balanced so that one isn't over powering the other?

At least take the trouble to have a look at the feature of  dbx 223XL that Lon recommended, before you make such remark.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Frequency control is just a huge benfit & major reason for a crossover, but YES you CAN control the overall volume (signal level) of each signal going to the subs & tops & balance them out from the crossover - leaving the amps on the speakers WIDE open making a balanced mix per your liking.  
There is no 'right' mix, it's what sounds good to you, I prefer my sub to have a lot more kick to it so it is pretty heavy - powered by a 1500 watt amp by itself, my tops are just producing low-high midrange & highs so they are balanced to my ear accordingly.
No you can do that from the mixer, you would either need to go to each speaker & turn them up/down individually or use an external crossover and have all control of volume (well signal level to the speaker) & frequency control.



If you adjust the crossover correctly, YES!

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Side issue. Did sound for a theatre.
Ran subs around 1000W, Mids around 450W, Tops around 100W.
These ofcoarse are approximate. Small theatre.
Sounded pretty good. Sometimes had to drop the the lower mid frequency
to eliminate feedback.
No... The bass was not booming.
Like stated, the ear is the decisive factor.

Do you really need the crossover if all the speakers have separate amps?   Aren't they crossed over internally?