Large Plate from my internal Mackie-cfx effects with a smattering of Vocal Hall/Studio Delay from my Lexicon mx-200 makes for a sweet combination for most songs!
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| Singing from deep in a well https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12932 |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Singing from deep in a well |
The karaoke in my area is mostly country. But I travel a fair amount, and sometimes I go to areas that are more rock-oriented. What is it with these effects that sound like you are singing from deep in a well? I do think it makes rock songs from not-great singers sound pretty good, but boy does it make everyone sound the same. It must be some sort of delay, I guess. It does repeat a bit. But wow, it really sounds ridiculous for country, or for any song that wants a little character in the voice. For instance, tonight I heard someone do "At This Moment" and it sounded so vanilla, even though the singer had a voice where it might have sounded decent with a bit of hall reverb or plate. I suppose in the rock areas you gotta do it, as it does cover up the lack of modulation in a voice. But it is very boring hearing singer after singer that sounds the same. |
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| Author: | purpletib [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Sounds like it could be cheap spring reverb. My CAVS JB-199 has the "reverb" dial and it sounds like (@$%&#!). I bought an effects processor with tons of reverbs and effects. |
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| Author: | Karen K [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Wow! Someone that actually knows what a plate is! I've been fighting this whole vocal effects issue for years. I have been to shows where obviously the host had NO IDEA how to adjust effects ... or mabye didn't even NOTICE? That nasty old 'reverb' button. I used a fabulous compact desktop effects board by Alesis for years - it had a dial on it, and about 500-some presets - talk about fun to play with. Chambers Brothers "Time Has Come" was SOOOOO fun to do - at the end I would send the sound back and forth across the speakers and you could see people 'watching' it. I like a plate on my voice most of the time; hubby likes a delay ... But it truly depends on the music and the singer. It requires diligence to adjust for voices and music. Some ask for more, some ask for less...I think when nobody notices the actual effects but that the singers sound FABULOUS, that is the right amount of effects. Shouldn't really be able to discern that there are effects on..But I will FLATLY refuse to sing dry - nobody sings dry! Not even the best singers in the world. I've actually asked hosts if I could look at their board, determine how the effects are routed, and show them HOW to use them. Pretty bad.... K |
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| Author: | Steven Kaplan [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Right, The old Hammond Spring Reverberation units when turned up used to sound that way. Actually for some apps it wasn't too terrible. That's actually a decent reverberation assuming it's decent spring reverb, however anything in excess sounds distant, washed out, Unless you are talking about echo-verb combo, echoplex (tape delay loop) used to have the capability to make one sound as tho they are yelling in a canyon. I forgot more about reverberation, and echo than I learned years back, but aren't they both delay fx ? |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
I will confess to buying my effects preset with the Lexicon MX200. My stuff sounds so much better than most hosts. Or so I think, anyway. I notice the difference when I go to my service club setup where we have to use the internal board effects. But when you get some people doing songs with long notes, they really do need a lot of effects. If you have a lot of effects, it goes a long way to cover up the defects in the voice. I am also a big believer in a monitor feed with effects. I believe that covering the small defects in your voice over -- like they are in a room singing unamplified -- is the way to go. It gives the singer more confidence, at least it does me, even though I know what is happening when I hear it dry. So far here in Miami, the hosts are 0-for-2. They both had nice shows in some ways, but their sound was crappy. The mics were cheap, and the reverb was so thick you could cut it with a knife. |
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| Author: | TOMMIE TUNES [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Large Plate from my internal Mackie-cfx effects with a smattering of Vocal Hall/Studio Delay from my Lexicon mx-200 makes for a sweet combination for most songs!
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| Author: | purpletib [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Funny, I considered the Lexicon but opted for the TC Electronic M350. It has effects and reverbs, with a de-esser. Helps with live vocals. I'm so glad I was in a band in HS, otherwise I probably wouldn't have a clue when it came to effects. |
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| Author: | EElvis [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
My Mackie has 12 different settings, but no "Deep Well" 
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| Author: | karyoker [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Mines got a spring 
I use plate on slow tempo songs spring on old rock and chorus with duets. |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
purpletib @ Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:46 am wrote: Funny, I considered the Lexicon but opted for the TC Electronic M350. It has effects and reverbs, with a de-esser. Helps with live vocals. I'm so glad I was in a band in HS, otherwise I probably wouldn't have a clue when it came to effects.
The MX-200 has compression and de-esser too, if you use a full-wet with channel insert. |
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| Author: | purpletib [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
And less expensive. I may consider this for a 2nd unit, but went with the M350 because operation seemed a little more straight forward. One channel for effects/delays, one channel for reverbs, with multiple dials for both. It just seemed a little more user friendly. I would like comp. though, as many singers don't know enough to pull the mic away from their mouth if they plan on screaming part of a song. :drunk: That and I didn't notice the de-esser on this unit. That to me, is kind of a big deal. helps out a lot for live vocals. |
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| Author: | sidewinder [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Singing from deep in a well |
Most KJs around here don't even use reverb. They play it totally dry. Dead sounding. Some just think one size of reverb fits all. I constantly adjust the reverb for each song. |
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