Karaoke Forums

Here is a question concerning the RIPPING of LEGAL PURCHASED ORGINAL CDG's .

Hypothetical situation : I have purchased SOUNDCHOICE Foundation series and all the Bricks plus some other discs and have succesfull ripped and converted to MP3+G files.   Another KJ has just purchased the FOUNDATION with the intent of ripping to hard  drive for their show.  

Would it be wrong ( unethical or illegal) to sell copies of those same MP3+G FILES on a hard drive  to another person who has the same on CDG? - Let's assume it is a 1 to 1  - meaning no extra songs etc. And we ASSUME that ripping cdgs to mp3+g in the first place is OK  

My  :2cents:  Is it is NOT wrong,  If we believe that format shifting in the first place is ok and I took the TIME and ENERGY to ...RIPP - TITLE AND CATERGORIZE THESE CDGS INTO MP3+G files ---why couldn't I sell that SERVICE of converting to someone is will be doing it anyway ???---AGAIN WE ARE ASSUMING THAT IT IS OKAY TO RIPP IN THE FIRST PLACE  and the files being SOLD would be an exact match to someones CDGS..............interesting ???  :shock:  hmmmm

Oh boy, Jamkaraoke - you're asking for it, aren't you??? All the armchair lawyers are going to jump on this.

Ironically I just finished reading MTU Hoster's legal opinions regarding this. I personally wouldn't touch this because although precedent has apparently been set (according to MTU's legal advisors) on actual format shifting (opinion comes out on side of fair use), the fact that you're actually passing on YOUR copies is iffy, even though the other person has the same tunes.

My guess is that if you actually took their copies (oh, how ridiculous, I agree), actually converted them, charged him/her for the time it took to do it, and for the hard drive if they didn't provide it for you, you'd be okay.

For a definite answer, you should probably investigate all the legal proceedings going on right now just to be on the safe side.

I do understand from my reading thus far that FORMAT SHIFTING IS OKAY, and THAT HAVING BACKUP COPIES IS OKAY (as long as you aren't running two shows at the same time, one using CDGs and one using the computer, the same material).

Anyone who is curious can go to MTU.com and read their "are copies okay?" column. More people should read this. MTU has been in the biz for so many years and would not base a business on something that was foggy as far as legality.

K

Karen
Interesting topic you have to admit- there is no differance in mp3g files of Soundchoices - My Way ripped from their "Foundation Series".

For arguments sake we are assuming that format shifting is acceptable if you have the orginal CDG song on a 1 to 1 basis as the mp3+g file.   As you know it can take HOURS to rip an entire collection of songs --what sense does it make to have one KJ spend all that time when someone has already done it ?  :thinkin:

If you ignore format shifting;
Charge the guy for service, NOT the loaded HDD . If someone have done the Job, why repeat it?

I agree - 'what sense' - there is none. But I would suggest that if the paranoia that is spreading throughout the whole industry has any basis, by essentially passing on what was originally YOUR music (I know, it is quite ridiculous - being devil's advocate here, which I am prone to do...), there could be problems. On the other hand, as the pragmatist that I be, I would NOT be concerned about ramifications of this. Just do it but don't advertise that you've done it.

I find it really interesting that as an industry on the whole we are running like little lambs from the slaughter over the intimidating comments created by companies who are doing everything they can to hang on to their market share - and understandably so with the investments they have made in the CDG market.

I have format shifted every disc I own - don't own anything that is not legal, am doing shows with a computer, and have no concerns whatsoever about some "karaoke kop" coming by to intimidate me into handing over my stuff. Ain't gonna happen! On the other hand, if I were a harddrive pirate, I probably wouldn't feel so confident in what I had done. Those creeps need to be prosecuted...but on any level of practicality, that probably isn't going to happen either.  :(

K

I PURCHASED  the SAVA collection as a birthday gift for a friend, a fellow KJ).  Since I also own those discs and have them all on my HD, and since my friends show is computerized, I copied the HD files for him, as well.  

I never thought twice about any legal ramifications, for whatever that's worth

When you purchase a disc what you are purchasing is the right to the music on that disc.  As long as you own the disc and don't use multiple copies of the disc I see nothing legally wrong with having a copy of that disc on your computer.  I think the same argument can me made for purchasing Super cdg's and then copying those songs to your HD.

This is my thinking also ---Why duplicate the LABOR of creating mp3+g files if they exhist already. Your not duplicating the SONG as there is a 1 to 1 ratio of cdgs to mp3 files?   I don't consider pirating HARD DRIVES - As both parties would have to own the original disc and songs.

When we first started rippng old cd's there were some were scratched and had bad rips. If another KJ had a good rip we would get the good rip from each other.

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So if I'm reading correctly ..you see nothing wrong with the sharing of MP3+G files as long as both parties OWN the original on disc ?

Nope.. As long as he bought the cd's  I wouldnt even  see anything wrong with charging a reasonable fee.

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......like most everyone else on here.....draw that line in the sand where you feel comfortable with it....forget laws....."we don't need no stinkin' laws".... ..........we all fall short of the glory of that great karaoke god in that huge karaoke bar above us,,,,,besides......it's only illegal if you get caught, and that snowball in hell, will be just as big and hard at the end of eternity....because the chances are about the same..... .....god, I needed a good laugh..... ...bless you my son.......

I agree with you ---It's a service you would have provided  :)

My two cents here. Off the record, most people will do what they want to do so does it really matter?

However, as it stated above, it will be illegal for you to perform such services, not because of the copyright issues but illegally selling merchandise without authorizations. It's one thing to sell your physical discs to someone else because the ownership actually changes. However, providing services to others of format shifting, taking aside th legal issues, means you need to have a business license to perform that services.

Many karaoke places have this type of service, it's called digital download. Apple iTunes is a perfect example of it from pure music point of view. They have to have business license because IRS wants the tax revenue that comes from these transactions.

If you get a business license and give the government a cut of that as a tax, you will not be violating any tax laws. The copyright law? That's a whole another can of worm and I am not 100% certain this will be legal in their eyes either.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

for me I see no problem in that.

I also see no problem in format shifting for pro use.


And here I go again.....
We are all looking at it wrong again....
How is a cdg company/copyright holder going to be able to prove a loss in court if both KJs own originals?

Basically all this legal talk is just Henny Penny crying that the sky is falling.  Don't ya'all think that the digital DJs would have been lined up and shot by now if the big record manus would be able to make money off lawsuits?  But I digress again....