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speaker arrangement
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13222		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  bigbuck [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  speaker arrangement
Ok...when people are singing karaoke..they are unable to hear themselves sing.  Normally I only see two speakers at karaoke shows but for my arrangement, the speakers on the stage and them singing at or behind them, they can't hear themsevles.  Should I buy a 3rd speaker / floor monitor to be directed at the singers?
Author:  Murray C [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
Any decent KJ worth their salt will set-up with at least one monitor
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
A floor monitor or some kind of monitor speaker.  Make sure it has it's own independant mix or the very least it's own volume control if you do a tap off the main speakers (not recommended but will work provided your amp can handle the extra load).
Author:  Bill H. [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
This is kind of worthy of another thread, but karaoke singers as a group are used to hearing themselves way over the top of the music compared to singers in bands or the original recording. If you don't have monitors (and they're not in a lot of rooms so you are not alone) don't put the mains out in front of the singers, but to the sides and back just a bit. Experiment with the exact location yourself until you get them where you can hear well without feedback.

When a singer says "Turn me up!" it's usually a combination move for me. Singer up and music down. Although I don't tell them about move two.
Author:  bigbuck [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
i have a mixer with 1 rca out.  I plugged that into my vocopro speakers with a built in amp.  The speaker goes out to the secondary speaker via speakon cable.  I would like to add a monitor with a volume control but I don't know exactly what I should use.  My only real option is to take the rca out of the speaker and run it to another powered speaker as a monitor with a volume control.  Do you think this is a good idea?
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
You can do that, however it would be easier if you could have a separate amp for the monitor which can be in your main rack that you have easy access to.  UNLESS the mixer has a volume control for that output.  Reason being, some people may not want the monitor so you have to run over to turn it down for them, then run back over to turn it up for the next singer.  That singer may want it louder, so now you got to run over to turn it up, then again when they are done.  Not that it happens that frequently, but kind of an inconvenience.
Author:  bigbuck [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
Since my mixer has one volume control for out to amp and out to rec...is there a device i can connect in between the out to rec and the monitor speaker to adjust the volume where i am at?
Author:  timberlea [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
Quote:
Any decent KJ worth their salt will set-up with at least one monitor


Not necessarily true.  It depends on venue size and speaker placement.  Neither we, nor  most of our competition use monitors.  I've sung both ways and frankly I prefer without (again depending on speaker placement).
Author:  lyquiddye [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
If they can't hear that means simply your system isn't loud enough.

With no monitors my singers feel like they are at a rock concert.

They can hear completely fine behind or infront of my speakers.
Author:  lyquiddye [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
If they can't hear that means simply your system isn't loud enough.

Try turing it up a little. My biggest complaint of going to other karaoke places than my own is it's never loud enough.

With no monitors my singers feel like they are at a rock concert.

They can hear completely fine behind or infront of my speakers.
Author:  waygone [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
WoW.....
Author:  waygone [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
I would highly recommend getting a floor monitor, most (singers), not your: I have to be drunk to sing (singers), are going to want a floor monitor. I have learned that you can’t just crank up your master volume. You will end up hurting your crowd and possibly getting feedback. A floor Monitor will also help you as a host, you should be able to set your floor monitor to where you have a rough idea of the room volume…but don’t forget to check your room volume from time to time.
Author:  stogie [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
If you place the speakers behind the singer and adjust the mixer just right for the mic volume there is generally no feedback and the singer can hear themselves without having to use a monitor. It takes a bit of practice and tweaking and you may need to turn the speakers a bit sometimes away from facing directly at the singer. If you make the mic too hot in this scenario you WILL get feedback, this is the key. Make the mic volume just right and no feedback. It may be different with different equipment, this has been my observation. It's worth a try.
Author:  Nlouch [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
What would the monitor speaker be playing?  The mix or just the vocals?
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
Nlouch @ Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:43 am wrote:
What would the monitor speaker be playing?  The mix or just the vocals?


Depends on what your mixer is capable of putting through it.  I play a separate mix to my monitors that can be tailored by the singer to what they want (more music, more vocals, more effects, no effects) otherwise it's a general overall mix of both music & vocals.
Author:  Nlouch [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
I believe my mixer has 3 outputs:

Master
Booth
Rec

Master goes to my primary amplified speakers.
Rec feeds to my laptop to record songs if desired.

I assume Booth could go to an amp and a speaker.  Not sure if my mixer would allow different mix levels though.  I could, however, just throw the 2nd line-out from the mic into the second amp + speaker, so it would be purely mic input.

What would you suggest?  I assume the point is so that they can hear themselves as well as the rest of the room?
Author:  jreynolds [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
timberlea @ Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:06 pm wrote:
Quote:
Any decent KJ worth their salt will set-up with at least one monitor


Not necessarily true.  It depends on venue size and speaker placement.  Neither we, nor  most of our competition use monitors.  I've sung both ways and frankly I prefer without (again depending on speaker placement).


I agree with you Tim...and Lyquidye.
The 1st quote is ABSOLUTELY not true. If you set up your equipment right and are in a smaller venue you don't need a monitor AT ALL. For larger venues, yes. BUT "at least one monitor"??? C'Mon Murrilyn...WHY would you ever need 2 or more..unless you are rocking an enormous venue.
Even my outside YMCA kid events don't require my monitors ( i own 2 dusty ones) and there's 500 kids at that event. Turn your speakers up and singers can hear. It's usually the Divas that want one- the same people who cover one ear and act like they're in a recording studio...posers!!! LMAO  LMAO
Author:  mrdelicious2 [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
Although I have started using my monitor more and more for various reasons.  The MAIN, #1 problem I see or hear in this matter is when the singer doesn't have the proper mic tech.  What is really wierd is that the ones that have the biggest problem, is the 'seasoned' karaoke singers who must have been used to going to 'krappy' karaoke.  You know what I'm talking about...the shows when the 'highs/vocals' are soooo high that they make your head split and your ears bleed and you can also sing with the microphone 1-1/2 ft from your face in a whispering voice.  I HATE that, so in my shows I tend to 'over correct' and keep the mix a little too low, which is also not good.  It's good to have a happy medium...MrD
Author:  karyoker [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
Smaller venues are harder to setup For example after many months our present setup is an eon15 G2 in the SW corner A g2 in the SE corner and  the singers in the NE corner Out of habit we still put an eon10 g2 in the singers area but after this arrangement the singers can hear what they sound like with full effects. (from the speakers mainly without room acoustics) It is a vast improvement over trying to put them behind the mains. WE no longer get the complaints of I cant hear me!!! Even in a larger venue setup now I will have a main aimed at the stage.

AS a singer I prefer a stage setup where I can move a few feet and hear either the stage monitor or the mains or have a sweet spot where with a turn of the head hear either one. With our present setup I can do without the monitor.
Author:  Karen K [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: speaker arrangement
mrdelicious2 @ Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:49 am wrote:
You know what I'm talking about...the shows when the 'highs/vocals' are soooo high that they make your head split and your ears bleed and you can also sing with the microphone 1-1/2 ft from your face in a whispering voice.  ...MrD


And usually cheap mics. And those kinds of places ALWAYS have feedback.  Dollars to donuts they don't use the trim to adjust mic volume, either. Look at the board and the faders are all over the place.

I use two SM58 corded mics - people tend to hold them too far from their mouth.  Once I get them to hold it close enough (lips almost touching it) and adjust their volume from the board, they don't usually forget it.

People will walk up, see two mics and say, "Which one?" They're identical mics. I tell them, you choose, and as soon as I hear you sing, I'll get your volume and tone adjusted for you."  Always a surprised look on their face about that. I have powered Mackies and at one gig the stage left speaker is pretty well directly behind the singer. I have NEVER had feedback from this setup.  Yet interestingly there are people who say, "I can't HEAR myself." I don't know what they're listening to but I can only smile and tell them that everyone else can hear them. Maybe I should jack the highs! I have monitors with volume adjustments that piggy back to main speakers but the last thing I want to do is haul TWO MORE speakers with me.

k
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