Karaoke Forums

This may cause a lot of eye brow raising since some people seem to have very opinionated comments to most posts here, but here goes:

I have recently finished the listings for my new books, and the estimate for each book is around $80. For 15 books you can see the cost there and its for books...(that is binders, sleeves, paper, printing) Since I added over 4000 new songs to my collection my book has expanded and now I hve the need to get 3-4" binders. Well here is my concern, and the reason why maybe most hosts dont update books.

They get trashed! I just simply can not afford to do this every 6 months, and it seems that no matter how many times I redo the books with new binders they get trashed.

I would like all opionions good or bad for this, becuase this is something I am serious about doing. Offensive, rude, inconvienent, well its my money I am spending and I rightfully so, and its okay by feeling this way.

Okay so I am considering actually having a Karaoke book checkout each night. giving out karaoke book checkout cards and if they want a book they need to fill out the info, and leave a deposit. This will maybe teach people that just because ts karaoke, or if they dont own the books so they dont need to take care of them, or for whatever reasons, maybe books are just being left where all the beer is being spilled all the time... I dont know, but I do know I am getting really tired of replacing books every 4-6 months.
It will also maybe make it hard for others to just take the books tear out the pages, drop them on the floor and leave them there, sit on them, or whatever I have seen happen at my shows and many other shows I have been to.

Is it wrong to want to be reimbursed for damage to my property. Especially since it would be considered abuse, not normal wear and tear?

[size=11]When I was in Hawaii, you had to rent the book, and it cost a dollar to sing one song. So you figure by the end of the night it could have cost around $15-$20 for the book, and maybe $5 at the most to sing. You dont get that money back, and I can see why they do that.[/size]

Really would like feedback. Thanks.  :dancin:
Melrose

Man, the $-£ rate is seriously a mess.  I saw $80 and thought "Jeez", then realised what that represents now.

Sure, books are a pain in the backside, and they do get damaged.  But checking them out?  I can't see it happening, sorry.

A friend of mine KJ's without a book, which I personally disagree with.  But he is lazy.  I mean, there is a middle ground, of having books but not giving them out immediately.  But people like books!

I guess it's just one of the time/material costs of what we do?  Personally I do my books every so often.  A4 double-sided 2 column in sleeves (with a little tape over the top).  Then put new additions in the front.

I'd suggest finding someone, hubby or friend maybe, who will sit and babysit your book collection while follks look through them, or look up songs for them.  Sometimes it works great if you have a card file and have people file their own cards each night when they sing with you so they don't have to tear through the books to find those same old songs.
Just a thought.
I would find out if the bar owner would allow that type of rental policy too before you try something that drastic. Doesn't seem too common anywhere else and you don't want your clients to feel like they're being punished.

I don't see the purchase of binders and sheet protectors, myself. I see "unprotected" books that survive quite well. These can be made for less than $15 apiece for a library of over 15,000 songs. The ones I have made have color cover pages, transparent protective plastic covers to withstand a spill, and are "perfect" bound.

[schild=1 fontcolor=00008B shadowcolor=00BFFF shieldshadow=1]Just A Thought![/schild] [font=Verdana]In my son's shows, we have always distributed the books among the tables to have them conveniently available to the customers that want to sing, and we have paid the price of many damaged books.  Your bound to have a couple of books in front of people that have no intention of singing, and to them the books are just a nuisance.  After reading your post I wonder if having them come up, look you in the eye,  and ask for the book might make them feel a little more responsible for it.  My fear is that there might be some people that would sing if the book was right in front of them, but wouldn't make the effort to walk up to the stage and ask for one.  One way around this would be to say over the mic, just before you cue up the next singer, that if anyone would like a book to browse through, to let you know, (holler/wave whatever) and you could take it to them while the person on stage is singing.  Still have that eye to eye contact. In my area I don't believe that renting out the books during a show, or charging customers to sing would go over at all.  Would be nice if that was the norm, would improve our income level. I am thinking about adding this to my karaoke rules in the front of my book, [highlight=darkblue]"You DO NOT have to pay to replace my Song Book if you damage it, but PLEASE treat them as if you do.  They are rather expensive to put together[/highlight]"[/font]

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Dusty Rose
Blue Rose Classic Karaoke
More Sound! More Selections! More Fun!
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Melrose, after replacing hundreds of 3 ring binders over 13 years or so, i found a great solution that has worked thusfar.(2 years) They are callled SpringPost Locking Binders by ITOYA. They don't come apart unless you unlock them and have no gaps so pages can't come out. You use them with sheet protectors btw. They come in 1,2,3, and 4 inch sizes and will last for years. The front cover doesn't allow for inserts though for advertisements. The binders look absolutely professional like a law offices' stationary, and only cost about $16 a piece.- google them. Also the covers are made from vinyl and don't look cheap like most binders.

I happen to be in hawaii, charge $1 per song, but have never heard of a binder fee- even in a karaoke rental room...?

IMO the SpringPosts are a REAL revolutionary upgrade for binders that always seem to need replacing every 6-12 months. BY FAR these are the BEST binders i've seen on the market anywhere. ( i do get to the mainland 4 times a year!) Check them out!
Good Luck- let us know what you decide on. J.R.

Kjmelrose, first of all welcome.

I've probably got the hardest room on books of the regular hosts in the forum. I wouldn't want to be without books on the tables because I want to encourage everyone to come up. No books might dampen that. So out in the room they go, and after trying several things out here's what's worked the best.

I've got the pages in the heaviest plastic sleeves I could find (3.5mm) and don't put them in those hard bound folders. I've got the pages held together loose with these clip rings that snap together tightly and are very hard to pull apart. The books never separate and since they are flexible, they bend and can stand the punishment. Amazingly no pages have ever ripped out after over a year. That plastic is tough.

To keep the size manageable I don't have everything in the room books. My room sings mostly new stuff so for the most part I don't have anything over 20 years old in them. There are a few exceptions... AC/DC... Anyway the country and oldies are in separate books I keep onstage and are available by request. Because they are what they are, I won't have to re-do them this spring.... I'll just update the "Update" pages in the front and call it good.

From the sound of it there are a lot of hosts that don't put it all in one book. Many have titles in one and artists in another. That's another solution.

Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it. I may try a coupe of different styles from the examples you have all given, that way I can see what will work best for my shows.

I am sure that there are ways to get people to appreciate the equipment, but I have not found it yet.

I dont know if I would actually ever try and charge for any of this, but perhaps letting people know that if they arent taken care of thats all they will get for a while, they distroy them yet complain when pages are missing, spilled on, or they cant find a book that has not fallen apart. Go figure.

Well, thanks again. And thanks for the welcome.

Melrose

Melrose, don't know if this'll help you, but part of my introduction at my show includes "mic technique" and "caring for the books"..at least that is part of the show where you have complete attention and set the presidence......imho.

I use binders and plastic sleeves.   They get wet and sticky once in a while.  I just wipe them off with a wet paper towel when i collect them and fill them at the end of the night.

They get used and i don't see too much abuse.

I will suggest one thing.    It could be the type of crowd you play to.   As i said i don't see that much actual abuse.   Mostly normal wear and tear.   Rowdy crowds tend to be hard on everything.    I don't cater to that crowd.

I just did new books and the only reason is, i had to get a bigger binder.    The old ones were 2 years old.    Still in good shape except the rings keep coming open.   IMO because of a bad design.  I went with a different company this time.    Time will tell how well these last.

Book rental would probably kill the crowd.    Cost of doing business.

Leaving a deposit for a karaoke book  LMAO  LMAO  - what happens when you run out of books and someone wants to borrow a book from someone else ? There are many scenarios where this POLICY would not work.

printing books  and REPLACING books are just a cost of doing business
SO IS repairing or replacing your WIRES and CABLES and MICROPHONE when some Drunken Idiot decides they're a rockstar and swings or throws your mics.

If its so bad you may want to CHAIN your books to a table and have people browse away from their beers  ....

So after reading many of the replies here I decided to go with the bound books. It really didnt seem to be that much difference and I could try it out this time and see if it helps. I was able to take my files to a printer and have them printed and bound. I didnt save much, but it was cheaper than buying the binders, sleeves and copies. So for this trial run we will see how long they last. They are not protected, but I think if I let people know that they should take care of them when they take them, or return them when they are done it may help preserve them longer.

I will let you all know when I pick them up and give it a go so you can have my input on them. Cant wait to see how they turn out!

No new updates for a while though no way to put them in books, unless I go with a single book for updated NEW music. Thoughts on that?

Thaks you for all the advice

My additions are separate. The regulars actually like it that way because they can easily see what's new. I just keep adding new sheets in labeled by the month they were added. We're doing different styles of karaoke but I don't see why it wouldn't work in your situation too.