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Amp help needed
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13551		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  smiler01 [ Mon May 12, 2008 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Amp help needed
Hi Guys
i am looking to start of doing karaoke in small venues and have already bought some Peavey PRO 12 speakers and am now looking for a powered mixer amp
Can anyone tell me if the Peavey XR 800 F is suitable or if not some suggestions
unfortunately i do not have a lot of money to spend only around 400/500 dollars
but as long as i can get started i can re invest once i start earning

thanks for your time
Author:  mckyj57 [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
smiler01 @ Mon May 12, 2008 9:49 am wrote:
Hi Guys
i am looking to start of doing karaoke in small venues and have already bought some Peavey PRO 12 speakers and am now looking for a powered mixer amp
Can anyone tell me if the Peavey XR 800 F is suitable or if not some suggestions
unfortunately i do not have a lot of money to spend only around 400/500 dollars
but as long as i can get started i can re invest once i start earning

thanks for your time

Are you in the US, or outside? I don't think the Pro-12 is on sale in the US much....

Those speakers want about 350W program, so you can do a reasonable  job of driving them with a Peavey XR-8600. Those are about $600 new, I have seen open-box for $500.

Soundcraft makes a 1000W (280 w/ch into 8 ohms) powered mixer for $500 or so. Or you can go for the Behringer PMP3000, which gives about 225 W/ch into 8 ohms. It will be a bit underpowered, but will only cost $400 new.
Author:  fsapienjr [ Mon May 12, 2008 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
Not a fan of Mixer/Amp combos.  Just don't believe they sound as good as a good mixer, and a good amp combo.

Combos are simpler and cheaper typically.  I know many KJ's use mixing amps, I am just not one of them.

Think about the old home stereo systems that had combo equalizer/amps.  Never liked any of their sounds.

Felix the KJ
Author:  LondonLive [ Mon May 12, 2008 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
The Peavey XR800F has a few nice features, but from what I can tell is under powered especially in it's price range. Packing only 210 watts per side @ 4 ohms,  150 watts per side @ 8 ohms and 420 watts bridged, I think I would look elsewhere. Unlike some on here , I don't have a problem with a powered mixer, if its a quality powered mixer. I would recommend seeing if you can locate a used Yamaha EMX5000-12, it will give you all the features you will need and then some. I've included a link to its owners manual so you can see for yourself. The EMX 5000 puts out 500 watts per side @ 4ohms, 325 @ 8 ohms and bridges out @ 1000, as you can see, substantially higher than the Peavey you mentioned. I've used one in the past and was rather impressed with the features, sound, quality  and power. If you decide your interested and can't find one, let me know, I think I know where there is one or two of them hanging out. I suggest you read a lot of owners manuals, so you can compare apples to apples. By the way, a used one falls into your price range and I doubt you would ever out grow it. The Soundcraft mentioned earlier has plenty of power, made by a good company, but falls short on features when compared to the Yamaha. Good luck http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/result.php
Author:  stogie [ Mon May 12, 2008 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
The Behringer PMP3000 powered mixer is $400 brand new. It puts out a good bit of power, plenty for small to medium venues. It's very portable and full of features, more than what most people need. You can run 2 or 4 speakers off of it.

I own the Yamaha EMX 512 and it's great, but quite a bit more expensive at $569 new. They're hard to find used, they are VERY popular. It has 500w per channel at 4ohms, but only 325-350 at 8ohms which is fine if you just have one pair of 10" or 12" speakers or even some 15" speakers. It will also power 4 speakers just fine.

Consider 2 powered speakers and a non powered mixer as a possibility. Decent to very good powered speakers can be had for around $300-$500 each and a decent mixer is between $150-$400 depending on what brand and features. So if you go with 2 powered speakers at $400 each and a mixer for $300 you're at $1,100.  I'm leaning towards going this way myself sometime down the road. Check musicians friend, they have packages. You can get the EMX 512 and 2 Yamaha S115V speakers for around $1,200 delivered. This is a great sounding system.
Author:  lyquiddye [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
Behringer PMP3000 - is onlt 215 watts at 8 ohms Underpowering by more than 100 watts.

Yamaha EMX 512 Is a better match at 350 watts at 8 ohms.


I also reccomend a seperate mixer and amplifer.

Amp $300 or $330

http://www.pssl.com/QSC-GX3-Power-Amplifier-300W-8-ohms


https://www.carvinguitars.com/products/ ... uct=HD1800


Mixer with FX $210 ( You Probally can find a less expensive mixer with FX )

http://www.pssl.com/Behringer-Xenyx1222 ... Int-WFXFBQ

Total $540 and a much better system than any powered mixer on the marker
Author:  smiler01 [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
thanks for the advice guys
i would love to get a behringher pmh3000 but here in the uk the cost is around $600
the only problem with some of the yamahas suggested is they are not available.
i will keep looking and see if i can get something second hand

cheers
Author:  mckyj57 [ Tue May 13, 2008 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
smiler01 @ Tue May 13, 2008 3:26 am wrote:
thanks for the advice guys
i would love to get a behringher pmh3000 but here in the uk the cost is around $600
the only problem with some of the yamahas suggested is they are not available.
i will keep looking and see if i can get something second hand

I take it that it is difficult to purchase from a US supplier. Zzounds has the PMH3000 on sale for $279.00.
Author:  stogie [ Tue May 13, 2008 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
I just checked zsounds and they don't even list the PMH3000. The PMP300 is $399. Do you have a link for the PMH3000 for $279?
Author:  mckyj57 [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
stogie @ Tue May 13, 2008 12:14 pm wrote:
I just checked zsounds and they don't even list the PMH3000. The PMP300 is $399. Do you have a link for the PMH3000 for $279?

They just sent me a catalog, and there it is on the back page....and I think it is already sold out. It was a darn nice deal....
Author:  LondonLive [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
smiler01 @ Tue May 13, 2008 3:26 am wrote:
thanks for the advice guys
i would love to get a behringher pmh3000 but here in the uk the cost is around $600
the only problem with some of the yamahas suggested is they are not available.
i will keep looking and see if i can get something second hand

cheers


Sorry to hear that Yamaha is not an option for you there, what brands do you have available?

Quote:
Total $540 and a much better system than any powered mixer on the marker
I used to own a Behringer Xenex 1832FX,which I used for monitors, note the phrase "used to". I found the EQ and the FX worthless, and Pre Amps were somewhat passable at best. I replaced it with a used Yamaha MG14/4FX and have been very pleased. To suggest that anything which contains a Behringer Xenex in the signal path sounds better than "any powered mixer on the market" to be wishful thinking at best. Although the Yamaha EMX512 mixer is nice and better than most in it's price range, I was thinking about buying one, but  I found the lack of the ability to bridge the amp and the lack of any means to patch into the main signal buss (main insert), features that just shouldn't be excluded in a powered mixer.( I called Yamaha to confirm this information as these features were in earlier models) Make no mistake, the EMX512 is nice, but it is nowhere near the mixer the EMX5000-12 is.  Apples to Apples. Please note, I will usually only comment on gear that I have hands on experience with.
Author:  stogie [ Tue May 13, 2008 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
Very good point LondonLive!!!

I was wondering how you would add a second amp for a sub with the EMX 512. I guess you don't. For future growth the EMX 512 is limited, thanks for that info!
Author:  Lonman [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
stogie @ Tue May 13, 2008 10:34 am wrote:
Very good point LondonLive!!!

I was wondering how you would add a second amp for a sub with the EMX 512. I guess you don't. For future growth the EMX 512 is limited, thanks for that info!


You use the main out on the front to run to a powered sub or some external mains.
Author:  stogie [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
Ok, so the main out which is signal only can go to an external amp and then to a passive speaker or to a sub?
Author:  Lonman [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
stogie @ Tue May 13, 2008 11:15 am wrote:
Ok, so the main out which is signal only can go to an external amp and then to a passive speaker or to a sub?


Right!  If using a sub it would still need to have a crossover of some sort beit internal, external or built into the amp.  The main out also has a mono channel (left I think) that will send both channels to the one - ideal for a sub.
Author:  stogie [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
So then there is no reason why you can't add an external power amp to go to another pair of speakers or a passive sub. How do you control the volume level of the speakers on the external amp?
Author:  Lonman [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
stogie @ Tue May 13, 2008 11:54 am wrote:
So then there is no reason why you can't add an external power amp to go to another pair of speakers or a passive sub. How do you control the volume level of the speakers on the external amp?


Actual volume would have to be controlled from the amp itself, just keep it close to the mixer & handy.  Most likely you wouldn't need to adjust the actual amp too much, too much bass turn it down in the channel strip of the mixer.
Author:  stogie [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
I read somewhere that there was some sort of simple volume control or ??? that you could get from Radio Shack that you could put in line between the mixer and amp or between the amp and speakers? I don't remember which.
Author:  Lonman [ Tue May 13, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
Well you don't want to put anything like that between the amp & the speaker as if you turned it down & the amp was turned up you'd be actually adding resistance tot he amp load & could fry it.  Like I said if your sub is properly crossed over, you won't be needing to turn up the volume on the amp, if it's too much bass, then turn the bass down on the channel strip.
Author:  LondonLive [ Tue May 13, 2008 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amp help needed
stogie @ Tue May 13, 2008 1:34 pm wrote:
Very good point LondonLive!!!

I was wondering how you would add a second amp for a sub with the EMX 512. I guess you don't. For future growth the EMX 512 is limited, thanks for that info!


Don't confuse the lack of an "insert" with the inability to patch out of the Mains, that's why I included the word "insert". You can patch out, you just couldn't patch back in. So if you wanted to use the 212,312 or 512 as a monitor amp you couldn't patch an external EQ into the Main Buss. I had a lengthy conversation with the guy at Yamaha on the subject.  Seems like a waste to built such a nice head and exclude such a simple feature. It probably saved them a whole 15 cents on the production cost, but cost them a sale to me and who knows who else that looks for these features. It's a great head, just a little lacking in a couple of key area's. The earlier EMX heads don't have an insert as such, but they do allow for tapping in and out of the mains with a loop and they can also be bridged. You can, as Lonnie has mentioned, patch out to another amplifier. There again, is another strong point of the EMX5000 Series, it has an adjustable  low pass filter built in with a separate fader to control the output, perfect for running a sub. Not all powered mixers are created equal.
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