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Sound
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14124		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Babs [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Sound
LMAO I didn't know what to title this.

During the winter months my setup if left almost untouched. I don't tear down and reset up much because I leave my equipment at the bar. Summer and fall months I do extra work, so I have the need to tear down and setup a lot more.

I've noticed odd things happening this yr. Through the yrs my ear has become more sensitive to small differences in sound. It appears when I setup in the bar again I notice a difference in sound each time. I recently did an outside job and when I reset up I swear the vocals sound a bit more garbage canny. No matter what I change I can't get back the sound I like. Even though it is slight it is driving me nuts ! Clear sounding vocals are very important to me.

Could this be a speaker cable getting old ? I checked all the cables and they look fine. I'm going to replace them all tonight just in case.

Have any of you experienced setting up in the same place the same exact way, but the sound is different? Aaarg !
Author:  LondonLive [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
I'm not sure what your setup up consists of so I couldn't speculate to much on particulars. A number of things could be causing the difference in what you are hearing or perhaps what you perceive you are hearing. One thing that did cross my mind, especially when you commented that the system had been used outside, is that speakers do fatigue with use. A system has to be driven harder outside than inside in order to attain the same perceived SPL as you don't have the benefit of the acoustics of an enclosed area. Do you run subs?, Do you use a two way upper with a passive crossover? It would help to know these things. One thing I am pretty sure of is I doubt it is your speaker cables, test them with an ohm meter to be sure. The first thing I would do in your situation would be to test each individual driver in my speakers to make sure they are all working properly. It could be that you just need to readjust your EQ's for the room, it is really hard to tell without knowing specifics.
Author:  Babs [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
Quote:
Do you run subs?,
No

Quote:
Do you use a two way upper with a passive crossover?
No

I didn't run the system any harder than usual outside

Basic system:
Mackie 808M mixer/amp
3 JBL Eon 1500 passive speakers ( 2 mains, 1 Monitor)
Audix OM-2 mics
RSQ MV-333 Triple Tray Player
Cavs USB player with hard drive
I use a switcher between players
Author:  knightshow [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
many times the setup and teardown can wreak havoc on the connections, such as speaker cords. We try to make those about as painless as possible say with Banana Clips, good 1/4" connections...

Have you looked at your various cords that are plugged into the speakers, mixing board, etc? Lonnie's recommended some cleaner spray that he swears by on the pots and sliders of the channels. You have mentioned that in your club they had smoking at one time, so much so that it ruined your stuffed monkeys people bought ya... you might try for a deep, thorough cleaning!
Author:  lyquiddye [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
Anything changes sound.

It could be speaker positioning right to left or slight difference in speaker height.

You will also notice a big sound difference on humidy days. The sound waves travel different.

The EON 1500's are a funny speaker. You need to take them apart every once in a while to make sure none of the screws have come loose. It also might be a good idea to look at your crossover and make sure all your capicitors are in tact. I have a few of these speakers and after a few years I have noticed the sound quality on them had deteriated. I use them very sparingly now. mainly as monitors for bands.
Author:  Babs [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
LMAO Aaaw, you remembered the monkeys

Thanks Matt - When London mentioned the drivers in the speakers it got me thinking I may bring in my amp and speakers to be looked at. I wouldn't know the first thing about how to check the drivers.

I was looking on the internet for a shop that would do this. Now I have another problem - finding someone. I'm going to Guitar Center later today. Maybe I can get a referrel there.

May I add I've had some unusual feed back lately too. When I hooked up my system it was feeding back for no apparent reason. I'd turn up the volume on the speakers then the main and the feedback went through the roof.

I unplugged one of my mains and it stopped. I ran the system on 1 main speaker for about an hour and when it seemed I had checked everything thing that could possibly had been causing it plugged the 2nd speaker back in and the feedback problem was gone. The problem just seemed to disppear.
Author:  Babs [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
lyquiddye @ Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:18 pm wrote:
Anything changes sound.

It could be speaker positioning right to left or slight difference in speaker height.

You will also notice a big sound difference on humidy days. The sound waves travel different.

The EON 1500's are a funny speaker. You need to take them apart every once in a while to make sure none of the screws have come loose. It also might be a good idea to look at your crossover and make sure all your capicitors are in tact. I have a few of these speakers and after a few years I have noticed the sound quality on them had deteriated. I use them very sparingly now. mainly as monitors for bands.


Thanks LD - screwing back in screws is actually something I can do myself. The speakers are about 2 yrs old.

I did take the humidity in consideration. I don't think that is it though.
Author:  SCORPION [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
It sounds like a driver to me, do you have another set of speakers to try on your system. If you get the same result with a differnt set of speakers, the problem is not the speakers.Don't forget about the jack in the back of the speaker, these do wear out and can cause some or total signal failure.Same with your speaker cords, they could be worn or a combination of the speaker jacks and your speaker cords being worn.

You said you used a switcher between your players, could I get that info from you please?


Thanks for the info Babs.
Author:  Babs [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
It's real high tech LMAO

http://www.radioshack.com/sm-4-way-audi ... 49645.html
Author:  johnny reverb [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
Try turning Down your signal strength (Gain) on your microphones.......you'll have to compensate by twisting up the volume a bit.......just a thought..... :)
Author:  JerryJames [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
I was having a garbage can sounding vocals that would come and go. I never did pin point the problem. When I upgraded my mixer the problem went away and I have less feed back with the new mixer. I believe the problem was in the gains/preamps, but can't prove it. The other mixer was a Beringer.... so :roll:
Author:  Babs [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
johnny reverb @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:51 am wrote:
Try turning Down your signal strength (Gain) on your microphones.......you'll have to compensate by twisting up the volume a bit.......just a thought..... :)


Thanks Johnny
The feedback issue is a mystery. It was a one time thing that just disappeared.
Author:  Babs [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
jayvan @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:12 am wrote:
I was having a garbage can sounding vocals that would come and go. I never did pin point the problem. When I upgraded my mixer the problem went away and I have less feed back with the new mixer. I believe the problem was in the gains/preamps, but can't prove it. The other mixer was a Beringer.... so :roll:


I'm going to replace my speaker cables tonight. If the problem persists I'm going to take my mixer and speakers in for a check up. I'll do one at a time to determine what was the problem.

Jayvan thanks for your input. It is so frustrating having a problem and not knowing the origin. It would be cool to have a post heading for people who had mysterious problems and the in time figured them out. I'd like to know how others cured their ghosts.
Author:  knightshow [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
some places will let you rent speakers or equipment... you can do this at home or the venue and hook up different speakers initially to see if that's your problem.

I do agree that for the basic troubleshooting, I'd go with the cables first.
Author:  Babs [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
So far so good with replacing the cables to my speakers. The few odd things that were happening are gone !

Unbelievable that all my troubles were from a cable. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that is all it was, but so far so good.

Thank you everyone for helping me trouble shoot.
Author:  knightshow [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
cables get crimped and crushed, many times in how you roll them up. It's when we force a cable to go into a different shape than it's normally in (think of how you bought them... what shape were they in THEN)... I destroyed a couple because I was rolling them into a circuilar shape, rather than rolling the cable in my fingers to make it the same circular shape it ONCE was, rather than the shape I wanted it to be in for having tight packing space... and wrapping the cord up like a twisty to secure it.
Author:  Babs [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
Posting in case this can help anyone else:

That's the odd thing Matt. The cable it ended up being is the one that is connected to a speaker I do not move. When I do outside parties I don't bring that one with me. The cable is strung across the ceiling loosely hanging on hooks. When I took it down it had a thick layer of dust gook on it. I'd say it hadn't been moved maybe in 2 yrs. Twice now my problems have been over looked because it wasn't the obvious.
Author:  ranger [ Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound
hey babs ,try putting on a music cd and see how it sounds, and if it sounds good, then go to your mixxer, then if none of it sounds good like the man said, check cords
and some times ive found that the 1/4 inch jacks in the speakers are bad or week
went to XLR cable speakers after that, no problems now, expt. keeping peoples hands of my stuff !!! lol..... with out seeing the system, dont realy have a good answer, hope this helps,,, ranger
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