Karaoke Forums

Tonight was the last straw for me.

After incidents that have happened over the past 6-8 months I'm changing the rules.

This topic ties in with the swear no swear topic.

I have witnessed far to many very intoxicated patrons staggering while holding full drinks. Why are they staggering around with full (brand new) drinks?

I told the bouncer tonight to keep an eye on the guy in the black superman shirt because he was trashed. 45 minutes later superman (still with a drink in hand) is dancing right in front of my table trying to impress the 2 girls singing. You guessed it, "superman" falls over and just misses my table, but he did succeed in knocking down my box lids that lean against my table leg. Too close for me. Now I look at both bouncers and they both saw him fall down. Do you think either one of them did anything about it? NOPE.

So I have come to this conclussion. Tonight there was a foolball "exhibition game" on. Which means it doesn't count for anything. But you would have thought that it was the super bowl. So that means the drinkers have a 2-3 hour head start on their drinking time before I start karaoke. If they stay all night they are too drunk to stand up right.

Too many bartenders are over serving these idiots. WHY? More tip money. So they put themselves, the bar owner and every patron at rick of possible injury and or law suits so they can make a few extra dollars in tips.

I am compossing a letter to inform the bars I play in of my new rules.

If there is a game of any kind (or fight) on TV that starts 2-3 hours before I do, they will have the following options. And I really don't care which one they pick.

First I will tell you why fight is included in this. The last 3 times a pay-per-view fight has been on TV at one of my jobs, there has been an actual fight occur in the bar. That is 3 fights too many.

Rule #1.

I don't play at all on the game night.

Rule #2.

Get someone to take my place that night.

Rule #3.

Get someone to take over every night.

Rule #4.

Hire a security person to guard my table all night.

As I say, I really don't care which option they choose. I am tired of worring about my protection or that of my equipment. It is not my resposibilty to engage a drunk person for any reason. Your bartender over served them. You deal with it.


That brings this up for your consumption.

These rules are being implimented in the entire NFL.

Now why do you think they would need these rules? Too many drunk fans because of the 6-8 hour alcohol filled tailgate parties.


They are getting worried about the safety of the innocent people.

Just as we should worry about what happens at out karaoke shows. See they are also concerned with the "bad" language? The country is changing and you need to be aware of the change in attitudes towards STUPID behavior. DRUNK OR NOT.


Steelers Ask Fans To Help Enforce Code Of Conduct
The Steelers are calling on fans this season to help them enforce the NFL's new code of conduct
Fans can call 412-697-7766 or text "Pitt33" to 78247 on game days to report inappropriate behavior
Reporting
John Shumway PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ― As part of the NFL's attempt to create a more fan-friendly environment in their stadiums around the country, the league is implementing some new conduct rules for fans this season.

In order for the new rules to work, though, the Steelers say that they'll need the help of every fan.

The team is calling on fans to report incidents of inappropriate behavior. To do so, they have set up a fan hotline at 412-697-7766 where fans are urged to report everything from fights and other unruly or illegal activities to violations of stadium rules.

Fans can also text Pitt33 to 78247.

The hotline and text messages will only be manned during games.

Here in Pittsburgh, the team says the new code of conduct is all a matter of PRIDE – as in:

Positive Heinz Field Experience;
Respect Each Other;
Integrity;
Dignified Behavior; and
Excellence On and Off the Field
"Our goal is to provide a positive Heinz Field experience for all fans from the time they enter the parking lots before events until they exit the lots afterwards," Heinz Field Director of Stadium Management Jim Sacco said in a press release today.

"P.R.I.D.E. is a team effort that combines fans, staff and players working together to keep Heinz Field a fan-friendly environment."

Fan Code Of Conduct
As part of the league's new fan code of conduct, fans are asked to refrain from these behaviors (Source: Pittsburgh Steelers):

• Behavior that is unruly, disruptive, or illegal in nature
• Intoxication or other signs of alcohol impairment that results in irresponsible behavior
• Foul or abusive language or obscene gestures
• Interference with the progress of the event (including throwing objects onto the field)
• Failing to follow instructions of stadium personnel
• Verbal or physical harassment of opposing team fans

Fan Code Of Conduct
As part of the league's new fan code of conduct, fans are asked to refrain from these behaviors (Source: Pittsburgh Steelers):

• Behavior that is unruly, disruptive, or illegal in nature
• Intoxication or other signs of alcohol impairment that results in irresponsible behavior
• Foul or abusive language or obscene gestures
• Interference with the progress of the event (including throwing objects onto the field)
• Failing to follow instructions of stadium personnel
• Verbal or physical harassment of opposing team fans


This should be the code of conduct for everyone that is out in a public place. ALCOHOL or NOT. It shouldn't matter. Why is respect at your karaoke show such a hard thing to understand? It is a public place where everyone should be free from STUPID people that participate in STUPID things. You are the one in control of the entire atmosphere. Along with the bar owner /bartender. Everyone will follow your lead. If you allow bad behavior they will follow right along with it and exaggerate it to the limit and beyond.

sorry to hear you are having probs...I am called all the names under the sun cos I am totally anal about anyone approaching my equipment with drinks in their hands
Because I now have to sit on a stool to gig instead of stand, people tend to lean over my mixer or my laptop to yell a request...they just dont get it when I put a hand up to wave their bloody drink away

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Guess it's the bars attitude on this. If someone is visably intoxicated in our place they are shut down or asked to leave. Sometimes someone will slip through that no one could have caught up front, some people drink before they get to the bar & do not seem messed up, but after their first drink, they display like they've had several.

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Yeah same here. Continuing to serve anyone that intoxicated would run my place afoul of the Oregon Liquor Control Board and hold the bar liable if that person tried to drive.

However I still consider it my responsibility to set my equipment up in as bulletproof manner as possible. Because anything can happen... even with relatively sober individuals. I have a bunker mentality and am safely holed in behind layers of tables and subs.

Let us know if you still have your job after presenting your ultimatum Sidewinder.

Try about 500 drunk vets on a pier just back from Nam. This should be a rarity in bars anymore but if it happens on a regular basis then this bar is on a collision course with losing it's license. Rules and laws does not prevent drunk behavior nor do they control them. I have said it before and I will say it again It takes a professional (bar tenders here have to be certified) team effort between all involved that is directly dealing with the patrons. These are cases that should not develop to such extremes. They should be nipped in the bud now.

Our security is a former navy seal and we communicate well due to my many years of shore patrol experience plus I have spent many nights at vets clubs doing the same thing. You just dont buy a bar not knowing what you are doing and hire kids off the street for staff You hire experienced pros.

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It can be difficult dealing with the public especialy when alcohol is involed.There is no reason for things to get out of hand to the point to were equipment is getting damaged.

A signed contract may help or at least give you a peace of mind that if things do get out of hand your covered,and maybe the owner/manager will take you and your comments about somebody possibly damageing your equipment seriously because it would hold them accountable.

This is a really simple contract there are more involved contracts out to cover every situation, equipment damage, outdoor gig requirements, accepted cancellation and non accepted ect. ect. Just change it from band to kj or dj.

Hope this works for you or at the last gets the ball rolling.

http://members.tripod.com/~music_help/booking.htm

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SERVING THE COMMUNITY SINCE LAST TUESDAY

The guy in the Superman T-shirt may have been trashed, and maybe not. That's a judgement call. As far as that goes, if he's had too much to drink, then it's (legally) up to the Bartender to stop serving him. If he becomes disruptive, then it's up to the Bouncers to escort him off the premises. As far as this guy dancing in front of your singers, it's possible that nobody saw a problem with that (understandably, other than you). Keep in mind, some people don't have to be drunk to possibly trip over your equipment and cause an accident. I know that sometimes I have appeared to be trashed (just because I was acting silly amongst my friends), and not had a single drop of alcohol to drink. You saw the potential for an accident happening, but the Bouncer did not. Other people have danced in front of Karaoke performers plenty of times, and it's never really caused a problem. Now, if this guy dancing in front of the singers/performers was falling all over the place, then the Bouncers did not do their job properly (in having him removed from the premises).

As for your "new rules," I too would be curious to know if this place keeps you on. It appears to me that you are being too bossy with the way you are planning on presenting this to the Management. If I were to see something like that presented to me, I personally would opt for rule number 3 and tell you, "Adios." I think that you should have a talk with the Management and, the only thing you should really state (in a contract with them) is that the bar will assume all liabilities to any of your equipment during the course of your show. Thus, if a patron falls or trips, and as a result, damages any pieces of your equipment, then the bar would have to pay you (and they in turn could choose to sue the person who caused the damage).... kind of like if you're a passenger in a car, and you're involved in a car accident (not the driver's fault), you have to sue the driver of the car you were in... his/her insurance would pay you, and they would in turn go after the person who caused the accident.

I have agreements with my venues that the bar is responsible for equipment damaged by patrons beyond normal wear and tear. (I've had one inebriated elderly man trip while dancing and smash a TV monitor; I plugged in a spare and the bar ponied up immediately for a replacement.)
I cooperate with bar security, and inform them in advance of potential problems. The bouncers like having extra eyes on the crowd. Plus it's easy for me to spot trouble before it starts; I see the door and the crowd, and I usually chat with some of the problem children.
I have no problem with drinkers who want to sing, so long as they are "happy" drunks. I mean, we're in a bar trying to have fun!
But if they appear aggressive, belligerent or balance-impaired, they don't get up on stage and are likely referred to a bouncer.
Nobody may bring a drink on stage or to the KJ table. That's not the bar's call, it's mine because of my equipment. I got some grief when that went into effect (three years ago), but my regulars completely accept it now.

I think this fixes most of the problems. The owner and staff will keep a better eye on the drunks and your equipment, while paying for replacements if anything happens. Everybody wins. Anything that gets broken would just have easily been something in the bar as much as it could have been KJ equipment.

That being said, the KJ still has a responsibility to point out potential problems to bartenders and staff. Personally, I stay away from giving out drinks or anything like that. We've been lucky not to have had any issues, and I allow people to drink while singing. Been going on 8 years without having anything destroyed with liquid (other than a couple hundred song books!), but I know I'm pressing my luck!

That's exactly the way I handle it. No drinks on stage and/or at the KJ table. Most people understand it right away. The few exceptions I take aside and explain, why I enforce those rules and they usually have no problem after it either.

I only had one case in 5 years that did not whatsoever want to agree to that. He got cut off from Karaoke and after being obnoxious and rude towards the bartender, he got escorted out.

Working 6 nights a week is the problem. The bar can agree to replace all the equipment they want. How do you get your hands on everything that is broken in time for the next show?

You are missing the point.

It should NEVER get to the point of the bar having to replace broken equipment.

Why should you or I or any other KJ have to settle for that? If it gets broken we'll replace it.

NO you will stop the problems before it gets that far. What's wrong with wanting and expecting that?

You people are thinking backwards. It's OK if your equipment gets damaged as long as they replace it? When is that ever going to be OK? You wouldn't have a problem with it?

It's illegal in every state to serve someone that is visibly intoxicated.

The NFL must have had enough complaints from normal people about all the A&&holes that want to tailgate 5 hours before the game and then totally bombed want to share their experience at the game with you and your family.

Being in a bar we should expect nothing less. PUBLIC stadium. Public bar.


As far as my attitude. I can get jobs at any bar. So losing 1-2-3 of them won't be a big deal.. Nobody is bringing in more income than I am. So if they want to settle for less income they are free to hire another KJ, with my blessing. Losing my equipment or having to suffer personal injury because of them over serving means I'll own myself a bar when it's all said and done.

What would you rather do? Stop the problems before they start or pay the consequence later?

By the way...Superman was staggering drunk. Not clumsy. I warned them about him 45 minutes before this happened.

They obviously didn't agree with you.

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I agree. If I owned a bar I wouldn't want my KJ to tell me how to run my place. Just introduce the next singer, play his track and go on to the next one. You might also be starting some major drama if you want to accuse the bartenders of overserving. They probably work there many more hours than you and are more directly responsible for generating income. If you go to the boss with that accusation, the first thing he'll do is confront the bartender who'll probably say you're full of $#!+. Then the bartender will have it in for you.

Why not be a little more concerned than accusatory? Speak only for yourself, don't tell him how to run his business. Tell the boss that you've been seeing some REALLY drunk people at your show and you're concerned for your personal safety as well as the safety of your gear. Tell him the specific times you've observed this (after football games, televised fights, etc.) Let him know you're excited to work for him, but need some advice as to what you should do. Then shut up and let him talk. Overserving is a serious accusation which could endanger the bar's liquor license and even result in jail time for his bartenders. Neither of which I'm sure he wants to happen.Take a confrontational stance, and he'll show you the door just for his own personal pride more than anything else. But if that's how you feel, why not just go in to the boss and pre-emptively give your 2 weeks notice. When he asks why, THEN voice your concerns. Let him know how concerned you are about the safety of you and your gear. Seems more likely if he wants to keep you he'll take action if approached that way.

Let us know how it goes!

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Amen. I absolutely agree with you Dan.

It is most everybodys impulse to get in a drunks face and yell at him and tell him what the rules are. That is mistake number one. All you accomplish is bringing out the meanest in him possible. The only time when force is necessary is when they are an imminent danger to self or others. When a person is drunk they are totally vulnerable and easy to control. Laugh with them and they are the greatest comedian and thats all they have in mind. Laugh them right out the door or into a better situation. Show them a genuine compassion and let them know that you are genuinely concerned about their safety and you dont want them to get busted and most of the time they will let you take control. Each situation is different and you are dealing with many raw emotions.

Staff or any bar connected folks should not get involved on a personal basis in marital spats (etc) or fights and take sides. These things should be monitored and halted when it is bothering other patrons. certain folks here dont like sober patrons in the bar. They are a necessary integral part of the structure and are credible witnesses if something major goes down Also they are another set of eyes to prevent situations.

EDIT The time to make decisions about 86's or financial dues or legalities is when all are sober (or even hungover sometimes better) the next day. Not that night in the heat of the moment
A attitude towards the owner or any one in staff or a severe personality conflict can cause more trouble than it's worth. Everybody even drunk senses this and the atmosphere is blown. It does not increase business. A successful business consists of employees that can assume the responsibilities or chores of others when needed and support each other. Politics and egos when driven to the point that they take pecedence over the business or other employees can not be tolerated.

A bar can erupt into a fatal situation in seconds and I have been in and seen the total riots where the bar is destroyed. In later years I would bail out the back door I didnt want to spend the night in jail or get bloodied up I had some serious drinking and partying to do. Excuse the rant but I hope somebody with less experience will glean one little fact and perhaps some day avert a very bad outcome.

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From the shore patrol handbook.

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I think YOU are missing the point. From the air of your posts, you come across as someone who just expects the whole world to revolve around YOU!!! Maybe you're different in person... I don't know. Without having that vocal inflection, your posts (in the past, and obviously in the present) come across as being confrontational.

You are working in an environment that can sometimes be conducive to such behavior. Going on your own logic , WHY should they even bother to open up the Bar in the first place??? After all, there's bound to be a fight sooner or later, and then another, and then another, and then another... (GEE!!! What a surprise!!! A Bar-Fight!!! THAT NEVER HAPPENS!!!!). And, sooner or later, something is going to get broken (such as glasses, bottles, chairs, tables, etc...) It's just a risk of the business.

If you're so concerned about drunks, then just offer your services elsewhere (where they don't serve alcohol)... THERE! Problem solved!

As Dangerous Dan and Karyoker stated, you are treading dangerous turf if you start to accuse the Bartenders of over-serving patrons. I wouldn't cross that line if I were you.


Also, if you're that concerned about your equipment (regarding the time to have it replaced in case of damage), you should have rendundancies at home. I know that I do (with the exception of my speakers, I have a spare player and amp/mixer for my system). So, if anything happens, I can replace something on a day's notice. Granted, this won't help you for that night's show, but if something that extreme happens, I'm sure you are perfectly capable of getting the bar to pay you (in full) for that night's service anyway.

Cuey, have you MET sidewiner before? He was banned some time ago... my advice is... don't feed the trolls!

[schild=8 fontcolor=FF0000 shadowcolor=FFD700 shieldshadow=1]Don't Feed the Trolls[/schild]