Karaoke Forums

This email was sent to Zoom in response to their latest disc releases.

Dear Sirs,

Having been in the karaoke business for 16 years, I have more than enough versions of many of the songs you have just released. Not questioning the quality of your reproductions because they are very good. However, my as many other well established KJs too, have interests in songs we don't have 6 versions of already. I'm not telling how to run your business but we want songs we can't get or don't have already. We don't need more dupes for our collection.

Most well established KJs are turning to songs we can buy individually. (Custom Discs) The days of buying new discs for one new song are over.

My case. Personally, I have spent about $50,000 (includes multiple Laser disc and cdg sets) for music. My collection has over 19,000 songs. Only 11,000 are one of a kind songs. Meaning at $3 per song I have wasted over $24,000 for dupes.

To be worth buying today a disc would have to contain at least 2 - 3 or more new to me, multiple singer requested songs. Nobody ever asks for more versions of Elvis songs.

There are thousands of songs we talk about that we would like to see produced. Same old same olds are getting boring. I see new companies coming out with discs and they contain every song we have been singing to for the past 16 years.

Thanks

The following is their response.


As a former KJ myself, I completely understand where you're coming from, but as a manufacturer the fact is that rare/unreleased/obscure songs don't sell very well.

A good example of this is our 3 Buddy Holly CD+Gs. The first one contains all the most popular songs which you can already get on practically every other karaoke label, the other two discs contain songs that you mostly couldn't get when we released those discs.

Which disc sells the best? The first one with the popular songs does. It outsells the other two by almost double.

So, if I was to make a disc of 15 previously unreleased songs of say the 1980s and then a disc of the best 15 songs of the 1980s, the one with the popular songs would sell in much greater quantities.

We have our tracks on the custom discs systems such as Custom Burn, Proburn and Selectatrack, but again the songs that sell the best are not the rare songs.

So, in order to stay in business, we make the popular songs and the occasional rare one!

Kind Regards,

Joe
Zoom Ents. Limited

So it looks like we are destined to only getting brand new songs on a very limited basis. Our singers will have to keep singing the oldies and like it. It will be a much slower process of adding newer "one-ofs" to our selection.

Boring to WHO?

Although occasionally I'll have a singer ask for a new song, the overwhelming majority feel I have more than enough titles to choose from...even though I know some KJs have more than twice my number of songs (I have about 5K unduplicated).

I'm sure it all depends on your venue and crowd. I'd guess that the majority of venues do not have the ultra-latest releases. People sing tunes they are very familiar with, and that familiarity takes a little time. In fact, some sing the same songs every week anyway.

I spent years in radio and can assure you that once off the charts, the majority of Top 40 songs are never played again. Those which have lasting popularity (called "recurrents") stay in a slower rotation.

It seems the disc manufacturers want to play it safe. Rather than release every song that comes out, they are waiting to see which songs have "staying power" similar to radio recurrents.

Keeping costs down is the key to any successful business. It makes sense for the disc manufacturers not to press a bunch of discs that won't sell after the first month. It also seems the industry is moving more toward downloads anyway where distribution costs are much more minimal than discs.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I'm talking more about songs that are 30-40 years old from very popular groups from the 60s and 70s.

There are thousands of songs I would like to see and people have been requesting them on the Sound Choice forum and many other manufactures also. These songs are considered classics.

Granted some may be album cuts but that doesn't negate their popularity. In the "old" days you had to buy the entire album. So the entire album was played through it's entireity. Over and over so these songs became just as popular to the millions of people that bought the albums as the ones that made it to the radio.

If I were to start a disc company I would reproduce entire albums. I think that would be a great marketing tool. You might pay a little more for them but you would have all the songs. I have people request songs all the time and tell me it's on such and such album. Not having the album I have no idea which song they are talking about. And they can't understand why it's not available.

Boring to KJs with some time under their belts.

It wouldn't be boring to all the rookies.

I have to agree. There are a heck of a lot of good songs from the 60's, 70's, and 80's, that have yet to be done. In addition, it is acts from the 70's like the Stones, Chicago, and Stevie Wonder that can can still draw large crowds. I would think any disc with unreleased Stones, McCartney, or Elton John would sell very well, and there are a lot of great songs by these artists that haven't been done. I suspect most kj's would add a new disc by any of these artists to their collections. They would probably also sell well in the home karaoke market.

It's frustrating when you've been singing for a few years not to have access to new quality material.

Note that some of the above artists are UK based. I'm hoping that Zoom, a UK company, decides to give us some songs by these groups.


I like the album concept also.

SW:

re: your first post in this thread.
Please change the color red to some other readable color.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I'm at the point that if it's not available on the Monthly's or on Custom CDG I won't buy the songs. At some point enough is enough.

The one thing I noticed about buying somewhat obscure songs is they maybe get played once or twice by the person who requested it and then that's it. Sometimes not at all.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

The songs many request I.E. Sound Choice site are not obscure. They may not have been #1 on the charts but they were still very popular.

There is no hestitation to put out a song with the F bomb in it.

That sells well to the immatures.

Sidewinder… dude… you’re whining that you have too much money in songs that aren’t used, so you’re looking to invest in thousand more that barely anyone wants to sing?

You can claim that people ask for these “thousands” of obscure songs, but I simply can’t believe it.

A KJ can't be expected to have every song everyone can think of, or every song everyone likes, just plenty of songs that they do like to sing.

Occasionally someone wants a particular song, it’s not there, they go “Awe shux”, they choose another, and life goes on.

Peace.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

Exactly! It would be pure stupidity for a kj to try to buy EVERY song available. 99 out of 100 times these songs wouldn't be used. Not every song is going to fit or be wanted in every venue. Buy what your customers want! Now I admit there are a bunch of requests I get from the 70's-90's that are not available, but these songs are also in the "they are great songs but probably not known enough to produce" catagory.
As for buying songs that are on discs with songs that are already out just to get 1 new song, my advice is have some business sense & don't buy it - UNLESS that customer is a killer support for the bar bringing people in, is there almost nightly & spends money - then I may consider a disc like that! I have almost 12,000 individual titles, my dups bring me up to almost 14K. That's watching what you buy. No I may not have everything that's out, that's not my goal, I want what the singers that come to support me want to sing. No one needs 10 copies of Friends In Low Places - which I have seen from companies advertising several thousand songs. They have multiple copies of hundreds (if not thousands) of songs. Do a true count of individual songs & advertise THAT!
Yes I know this rant is going off toipic, I apologise & leave it at that!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

And one of my favorite manufacturer's, besides Sound Choice, has closed it's doors... temporarily I hope. Karaoke Monthly (Panorama) hasn't released anything since June and they have a notice on their website that online ordering has been disabled.

I was addicted to their MP3+G series. No more ripping. No more graphic anomalies. Just really good karaoke.

Oh well, one of these days some smart cookie will make a Pro Series unavailable to consumers and make a mint. Charge $50-60 bucks a disc and make it so overwhelmingly good that everyone will be dying to sing it.

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Ken Wilson
San Diego DJ & Karaoke

Early in my kJ days I bought a bunch of sound choice 8 song discs on ebay at a good price. They were monthly sets. The reason they were a great buy is that the songs were and still are not popular. They just sit in my disc box and are rarely if ever sung. I'm a lot more selective now. Unsung songs fill up your song book and make it bulky.

Rick

I think it all depends on what you're trying for as a KJ. If you want to have the widest selection, you need the new music. Personally, I try to get my hands on every new song I can, so for me, the dups are annoying. I've taken the time to pull out all of the dups, and I've kept the best sounding versions for my books. It eliminates all of the confusion. I am tired of rebuying the same songs though, just to get the one new one that got snuck into the disc.

For me, I love the selection. Do I have songs that will probably NEVER be sung EVER?? Yes. But I enjoy when someone comes up to me all wide-eyed and says, "I can't believe you have ### ## # #! Nobody else has this!" Then they go sit back down without singing it! HA!

I personally think that a KJ that doesnt keep up with the new stuff is either a lazy KJ or doesnt really care about his singers more about his wallet. Now on the other hand I do understand that almost all of the new stuff may never or barely get sung but you never know if you dont have it. most of the stuff off the PHM does get done sooner or later...so its worth the money just to have it just in case

If the crowd doesn't ask for nor respond to the newer music, it's pure idiocy & a waste of money (unless of course you have unlimited funds) TO buy the brand new music of today. If I get asked for these songs, I will buy them, if not I won't. I care about my singers because I buy the songs THEY want, not what I THINK they want, this is the mentality of a inexperienced kj/company. Getting what the singers want & will use will go alot further than buying something that may never get pulled and become a dust collector! If it will get done later, then they can ask & I will get it. Not worth the money to HOPE someone will sing it in the future. It's worth the money to know a singer is going to sing what they ask for. I have a clip board out and available at every show for new song requests that people want to have added & 70% is rock from 70's-90's, 20% is for country new & old & 10% is for any new (as in todays) music. Which once it gets written down, I pick it up. It's not often. I'm going to spend money on what they want.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Sidewinder… dude… you’re whining that you have too much money in songs that aren’t used, so you’re looking to invest in thousand more that barely anyone wants to sing?

You can claim that people ask for these “thousands” of obscure songs, but I simply can’t believe it.

Hinge, do some homework dude, look on the Sound Choice site at all the songs people are requesting manufacturers to make. Most of the requested songs are from the 60-70-80s. Nobody has come out with the majority of these songs. That means they are not available from any company. Yet.

I didn't say people are asking me personally for thousands of songs.

I have people singing the same 3 songs for the last 15 years.

My goal is to make it less boring for the listeners that always out number the singers.
Don't you think the non singers ever get bored hearing the same songs night after night? What's going to keep them coming back? Joe Smoe that sings his same 3 boring songs.

The singers are keeping themsleves entertained because they must be happy singing the same old. I know 600 songs and it isn't enough. I want to see new (different) songs reproduced. Nobody (KJ) needs new versions of Elvis songs from different companies. We are overloaded with them.

Catering to the singers requests, if they are steady customers is a good way to keep them coming around.

Fair enough.

So you personally DON'T have many people asking for new songs... that's interesting to note, though.

So, I’m curious how you’re gonna get folks who sing a handful of songs to sing these new songs to entertain the bored listeners that outnumber the singers.

Same three songs for fifteen years… and you’ve got like 12’000+ songs?

Do you think these new song will change all that?

You seem to be pretty busy; maybe you’re just making something out of nothing. I just hate to see ya spend more money where it likely won’t likely make any significant difference.

Maybe DJing woulda be better for ya… I dunno.

In any case, best of luck.

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Hate is like taking poison, hoping the other guy gets sick

There's a major disconnect in your statement. If the non-singers "get bored hearing the same songs" why are they even there "night after night"? Someone's holding a gun to their heads? There are no dance clubs, comedy clubs, movie theaters or a zillion other entertainment venues out there?

As a DJ for many years, I'm sick and tired of playing songs like "Celebration" and "YMCA" at wedding gigs. If I never played them again, it would be too soon. But people REQUEST them! They DANCE to them! They EXPECT to hear them! Should I not play them because *I* am bored by them? I thought I was being paid to entertain the *audience*?

People coming to karaoke shows know they're going to hear "I Got You Babe" and "Love Shack" and "Don't Stop Believin'" practically every night. It's not because the KJ doesn't have thousands of other songs to choose from. It's because they're the songs that people like to sing.

I would suggest any KJ who's "bored" with playing the songs that people request and want to sing find a new line of work.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Sidewinder, I'm curious. What are some examples of songs that you want released on karaoke that aren't already available somewhere? Songs that you think would be done by more than maybe one isolated singer once a year or so? Other than some Richard Cheese (which I really wish someone would do!) I can't think of anything that I know would be sung by several singers.

Actually any examples of material you believe you need would give me an idea of what you are talking about. Right now I don't understand.

I've found most things new (meaning contemporary), with any kind of exposure, that someone would want to do as karaoke, eventually gets released that way.

Forget Sound Choice.

Stat looking into Sunfly (especially the Most Wanted discs) and Chartbuster. Those two companies are the ones consistantly releasing stuff people are requesting. SBI as well.

I've about given up on the American producers. The copyright restrictions ALONE have held SC's hands more times than I can count!