Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer

Hello Ron,
The 266xl and 166xl are basically the same, except the 166xl is dual channel, allowing you to have 2 independent Mic's running through it at the same time. The Pre Amp is also dual channel. So with these 2 units I am able to have the benefit of using the compression on two seperate mic's. Each with it's own settings. One for the singers, and one for me

The 166xl also has a limiter on each channel that allows you to set an absolute limit on how loud it will go, regardless of the compression settings. I'm not sure if the limiter is really necessary for my use' but it's there. It's funny that the compressor with fewer features has the larger model number

isn't it usually the other way around

Actually the 266XL is also a dual channel compressor. The main difference between that one & the 166XL is the 166 also have a built in limiter independant from the compressor. The 266 is just a compressor, fine for most karaoke situations.
Limiters are good for setting peak settings on instruments & speaker protection when using the unit on the main output. It can also be used with vocals as well, but will most likely need to be adjusted more.

Ron since you are a self confessed beginner at PA setup and breakdown may I make the suggestion that you colour code your cords etc. A bit like they do with computers these days. have a coloured tape on your cord and a corresponding colour along side the hole its supposed to go into. That way it is fool proof. So while you are at the store to pick up your rack get the assistant to help you.

While I am able to setup, my husband wouldnt be able to do it if I wasnt there unless I colour coded

Sorry Ron, for causing you any upset with my miss-information. I just checked my reciept and it looks like tomorrow I will still have one day left to return the 166xl and buy the 266xl saving myself $100. Thank you Lonnie :!:

I'll post tomorrow to let you all know how it went.

I have a feeling one could make it all sound fine without the added preamp and compressor.

I wonder if that extra expense is really necessary.

Absolutely Vicki, but I'm way ahead of you for once...

I have been carrying a little thing around in my car for a couple of weeks just for that purpose.

UnHinged @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:37 pm wrote:

I have a feeling one could make it all sound fine without the added preamp and compressor.

I wonder if that extra expense is really necessary.

If it's learned how to be used, the extra expense could mean between "fine" sound & great sound.

A compressor isn't going to make your system sound any better.

If you feel you want better sound the 1st step is more power. The more amplification headroom you have the cleaner your sound is going to be.

350 watts at 8 ohms is minimal. ( What you are currently are running)

Get yourself a pair of High Power Speakers like EV QRx 115's and a good amp like a QSC PLX3602 you will forget ever talking about a compressor.

I use compressors all the time in recording. They are not ever needed in live sound.

Author:	Dynomyk [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:25 am ]
Post subject:	Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
For the last year I have been using The yamaha EMX512 powered mixer for my shows. http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=630199 It has worked well for me. I chose it because it looked fairly simple to operate and seemed to get good reviews. Now that I have a little experience working with sound reinforcement at my show, I have felt the need to upgrade my equipment peice by peice. My first priority is to make the singers sound their best. After studying info on this forum I've realized I need good compression on the mic. Last year I had no idea what "good compression" even meant. The yamaha does have built in single knob compression, but if it even does anything...I can't tell. The mixer does not have insert plug ins, although there is an Effects out plug in on it. This is what I have done; SM58 Mic into a PreSonus Bluetube Mic Pre Amp http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=184132 Pre Amp into a DBX 166XL Compressor http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=183548 Compresser into the Yamaha mixer as a "line" input on a channel. I have only had the opertunity to use it a couple of times so far, but it most definetly sounds better, and I haven't even learned yet what the best settings are.( each unit has it's own gain control ) Both units are dual which I like. Even if this isn't the best configeration, I think they are worth having. The Yamaha PA package has all ready paid for itself but I still need\want more. I am wondering what some of you think about my system upgrade. Was there a better way to go without breaking my limited bank? Any advise on how to get the best out of what I have, or what to buy next Sorry about the speling THANKS

Author:	mckyj57 [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
My best tip for making vocals sound better is to cut the midrange eq (2.5KHz) on the music channel -- just a little. Then boost the midrange eq on the vocal channel -- just a little. If you are using a stereo channel with only high low and are running a computer into it, then cut 2-4KHz by 2-3 Db. The typical result of this where I have convinced someone to try this is that vocals pop out of the mud. Of course you may already be doing this....

Author:	Boatman [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Hi Mike, I was just wondering why you chose the 166XL, as opposed to the 266XL. Ron

Author:	Dynomyk [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Hello Ron, The 266xl and 166xl are basically the same, except the 166xl is dual channel, allowing you to have 2 independent Mic's running through it at the same time. The Pre Amp is also dual channel. So with these 2 units I am able to have the benefit of using the compression on two seperate mic's. Each with it's own settings. One for the singers, and one for me The 166xl also has a limiter on each channel that allows you to set an absolute limit on how loud it will go, regardless of the compression settings. I'm not sure if the limiter is really necessary for my use, but it's there. It's funny that the compressor with fewer features has the larger model number isn't it usually the other way around

Author:	Boatman [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Dynomyk @ Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:44 pm wrote: Hello Ron, The 266xl and 166xl are basically the same, except the 166xl is dual channel, allowing you to have 2 independent Mic's running through it at the same time. The Pre Amp is also dual channel. So with these 2 units I am able to have the benefit of using the compression on two seperate mic's. Each with it's own settings. One for the singers, and one for me The 166xl also has a limiter on each channel that allows you to set an absolute limit on how loud it will go, regardless of the compression settings. I'm not sure if the limiter is really necessary for my use' but it's there. It's funny that the compressor with fewer features has the larger model number isn't it usually the other way around Thanks for that mike....As for the model numbers, thats kinda what I thought too. Ron.

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Author:	Lonman [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Actually the 266XL is also a dual channel compressor. The main difference between that one & the 166XL is the 166 also have a built in limiter independant from the compressor. The 266 is just a compressor, fine for most karaoke situations. Limiters are good for setting peak settings on instruments & speaker protection when using the unit on the main output. It can also be used with vocals as well, but will most likely need to be adjusted more.

Author:	Dynomyk [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Thanks lonnie, for pointing that out. Somehow I got it into my head that the 266 was only one channel. After looking at the picture of it in the Ad, it's pretty obvously dual channel I wasted some money there. Naturally my 14 day return window has expired. I think I must have origionaly chosen the 166 because it had the limiter and I didn't understand I wouldn't need it. Oh well...we live and learn

Author:	Boatman [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Lonman @ Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:43 pm wrote: Actually the 266XL is also a dual channel compressor. The main difference between that one & the 166XL is the 166 also have a built in limiter independant from the compressor. The 266 is just a compressor, fine for most karaoke situations. Limiters are good for setting peak settings on instruments & speaker protection when using the unit on the main output. It can also be used with vocals as well, but will most likely need to be adjusted more. I assumed there was an explanation Lonnie, cause I couldn't see you recomending a unit for karaoke that only supports one mike. I just got a call yesterday from the music store telling me my rack was done, so I would have found out this week anyway. It's just nice to know that I can sleep good tonight knowing I bought the right thing. I swallowed my pride, and took the rack, and mixer to the guitar store so they could hook everything up. I just didn't want to take a chance on hooking something up wrong.They will also hook everything up to a PA, and check out the mixer so it will be plug and play when I get it back (hopefully). We have been singing along to regular music going thru the pa system, so it's going to be a treat to have real karaoke for the first time, sometime this week. Ron....Thanks

Author:	MorganLeFey [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Ron since you are a self confessed beginner at PA setup and breakdown may I make the suggestion that you colour code your cords etc. A bit like they do with computers these days. have a coloured tape on your cord and a corresponding colour along side the hole its supposed to go into. That way it is fool proof. So while you are at the store to pick up your rack get the assistant to help you. While I am able to setup, my husband wouldnt be able to do it if I wasnt there unless I colour coded

Author:	Boatman [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
MorganLeFey @ Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:58 pm wrote: Ron since you are a self confessed beginner at PA setup and breakdown may I make the suggestion that you colour code your cords etc. A bit like they do with computers these days. have a coloured tape on your cord and a corresponding colour along side the hole its supposed to go into. That way it is fool proof. So while you are at the store to pick up your rack get the assistant to help you. While I am able to setup, my husband wouldnt be able to do it if I wasnt there unless I colour coded Absolutely Vicki, but I'm way ahead of you for once... I have been carrying a little thing around in my car for a couple of weeks just for that purpose. It's a little dispensor thing that electrical people use, with matching numbers on tape. I also have one that uses colors. So on Tuesday, I will have it in my hand when I enter the music store to pu my stuff, . After a while, just by studying how everything is hooked up, and I get familiar with all the cable routing etc., it shouldn't be a problem, but Thanks for that...

Author:	Dynomyk [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Sorry Ron, for causing you any upset with my miss-information. I just checked my reciept and it looks like tomorrow I will still have one day left to return the 166xl and buy the 266xl saving myself $100. Thank you Lonnie I'll post tomorrow to let you all know how it went.

Author:	Boatman [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Dynomyk @ Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:11 pm wrote: Sorry Ron, for causing you any upset with my miss-information. I just checked my reciept and it looks like tomorrow I will still have one day left to return the 166xl and buy the 266xl saving myself $100. Thank you Lonnie I'll post tomorrow to let you all know how it went. No upset at all Mike, don't even think of it. I'm just silently reading all this stuff, and trying to make some sense of it all. Well, sometimes "silent".........

Author:	TOMMIE TUNES [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
What your powered mixer does have is a monitor out with a separate equalizer that you are probably not even using. To increase vocal volume you could either purchase one or two Powered speakers or another separate amplifier and speakers and plug into the Monitor out on that mixer for a totally separate controllable vocal mix from each microphone strip. You can tailor how much vocals and effects and music you want from each microphone strip.

Author:	UnHinged [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
I have the older model of that mixer without the one-knob compressor feature, but I would love to take a shot at using one like you have; I have a feeling one could make it all sound fine without the added preamp and compressor. I wonder if that extra expense is really necessary.

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Author:	Lonman [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
UnHinged @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:37 pm wrote: I have a feeling one could make it all sound fine without the added preamp and compressor. I wonder if that extra expense is really necessary. If it's learned how to be used, the extra expense could mean between "fine" sound & great sound.

Author:	MorganLeFey [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Boatman @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:10 pm wrote: Absolutely Vicki, but I'm way ahead of you for once... I have been carrying a little thing around in my car for a couple of weeks just for that purpose. ummmmm I thought you told me that was for... errr never mind

Author:	lyquiddye [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
A compressor isn't going to make your system sound any better. If you feel you want better sound the 1st step is more power. The more amplification headroom you have the cleaner your sound is going to be. 350 watts at 8 ohms is minimal. ( What you are currently are running) Get yourself a pair of High Power Speakers like EV QRx 115's and a good amp like a QSC PLX3602 you will forget ever talking about a compressor. I use compressors all the time in recording. They are not ever needed in live sound.

Author:	Dynomyk [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
I went to Guitar Center and exchanged the 166XL for the 266Xl. I used the savings to buy another SM58. Thanks, to this Forum and Lonnie in particular for the new Mic I appreciate the feedback i have gotten so far. Tommy, your right about me not currently using the monitor out, you've gotten me thinking about possabilities I hadn't considered Unhinged, I Agree that the yamaha performs very well for what it it. As I stated earlier I have been very happy with it. I think you might be dissapointed with the single Knob compression, but then again, tweaked just right, you would probibly get better performance out of it than I have. As far as the extra expense being worthwhile....It is to me. It's more stuff for me to learn with and enjoy using on that path to "GREAT" sound. Lyquiddye, My Amp is pushing 500X2 watts at 8 ohms. I agree, lots of power is a good thing "Too Much, is Never Enough" I'm thinking I could use more power in the form of a Subwoofer, or maybe doing something with my, Monitor Out, as Tommy suggested. I gotta tell ya; I'm still relativaly new to sound reinforcement, and hard of hearing at that but The configeration I am currently using (Mic - Preamp - Compressor - Line input on Powered mixer) Definetely makes my singers sound better, and gives me more ability to compensate for their amature technique. Thanks all for the input, and, more is welcome

Author:	UnHinged [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
Lonman @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:47 pm wrote: UnHinged @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:37 pm wrote: I have a feeling one could make it all sound fine without the added preamp and compressor. I wonder if that extra expense is really necessary. If it's learned how to be used, the extra expense could mean between "fine" sound & great sound. To debate the issue would also be questioning Dyno’s choices again, which is of no benefit at this point; I’m happy he’s happy, and I’ve been wrong before… but we’ll just have to agree to disagree that redundancy in preamps and comps is the best place to go for improving the sound. Peace

Author:	Jian [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Better Vocals out of Powered Mixer
lyquiddye @ 23rd September 2008, 12:23 pm wrote: A compressor isn't going to make your system sound any better. If you feel you want better sound the 1st step is more power. The more amplification headroom you have the cleaner your sound is going to be. 350 watts at 8 ohms is minimal. ( What you are currently are running) Get yourself a pair of High Power Speakers like EV QRx 115's and a good amp like a QSC PLX3602 you will forget ever talking about a compressor. I use compressors all the time in recording. They are not ever needed in live sound. This is BAD advice esp if you are doing karaoke.