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| Limiting & compression https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14792 |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Limiting & compression |
Several times I have tried explain limiting and and compression on this forum. It is not magic or some complicated concept.They both use a voltage contolled amp in which the gain is controlled by the level of signal or audio input. Automatic gain control. When recording there are sounds such as symbals which are putting the VU meters in the red. So with a peak limiter it keeps the peaks at the level of the rest of the instruments. NOW YOU CAN TURN THE OVERALL LEVEL UP AND GET A DECENT LEVEL AND HEAR EVERYBODY WITHOUT DISTORTION OR CLIPPING. Compression is when you control or lessen the level of all. A vocal limiter or compressor brings vocals out of the mud. Good singers with mic tecniques do not need much compression only limiting. So in essence audio compression is decreasing the highs and bringing up the lows out of the other freqs to a listening level. Audio expansion is just the opposite. I do not use a compressor to eliminate feedback this is solved by proper overall gain structure and proper speaker placement. The threshold is the point where the limiting or compression starts The ratio is how much it is going to decrease the level. It is simple as that.... |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Now who wants to flipping argue? |
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| Author: | MorganLeFey [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
and ya know Ollie, I wouldnt have believed how effective it could be till I tried it...how the hell I ever did without before is beyond me...only thing is I am inclined to be lazy and not put quite as much effort in and then I sound a bit ummm like a wet bus ticket 
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| Author: | exweedfarmer [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
karyoker @ Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:59 pm wrote: Now who wants to flipping argue?
You posted this to pick a fight????? |
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| Author: | asprofengari [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
The use of compression and how to set one up..is something that can take a very long time to teach or learn! I'm not sure I've tamed them myself  I sometimes use hardware, but some of the Software plug-ins are excellent.
No, nothing to argue about! I couldn't live without a comp/limiter! Cheers! Ron |
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| Author: | Jian [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
....and remember, in karaoke we are singing to a music file that has undergone some amount of compression. The vocal will benifit a lot more if it is also compressed; then the vox is now part of the mix and not some sound that stand out of the mix. |
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| Author: | Nlouch [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Can anyone recommend a budget entry-level stand alone compressor? |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Nlouch @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:13 am wrote: Can anyone recommend a budget entry-level stand alone compressor?
Sure. The Behringer MDX1600. $99.95 street price, two channels of compression. Works great, I own one. I run it on my secondary rig, the one that now plays out in clubs two nights a week. |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Quote: Can anyone recommend a budget entry-level stand alone compressor?
I got a couple of Alesis 3630's I'd flat give to you. They work but you need to know what you are doing or they will do more harm than good. They are good to learn on and when getting a DBX it is a snap. My biggest problem is using Shure mics on a Mackie and getting enough level to the DBX. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
dbx 266XL great compressor for the price & no reason to upgrade later. $50 more than the Behringer. The Alesis for free is even better, but you will want to upgrade. These are what I started with, would never touch them anymore. |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
 Quote: You posted this to pick a fight?????
No but here is one of my tools scope |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
| Quote: You posted this to pick a fight?????
No but here is one of my tools scope |
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| Author: | alexandt35 [ Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Nlouch @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:13 am wrote: Can anyone recommend a budget entry-level stand alone compressor? I prefer the DBX or Alesis
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| Author: | UnHinged [ Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Another vote for the dbx 266, although the Behringer is a competent unit. |
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| Author: | Alex [ Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
I should get my dbx 1046 on Wednesday. Can't wait to play with it. I've never used a compressor, but all this talking about it here lately made me really curious.
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| Author: | eben [ Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
The compression scheme originated from good old cassette tapes, remember them? I bet some of you were born after they went away.
In order to record a full spectrum of frequencies, from low to high, you needed to record with a strong magnetic signals to differentiate between lows and highs. Unfortunately, if you made the magnetic signals too strong, it would interfere with the overlaying tape. Remember, the tape was spooled on a sprocket in layers. One layer would interfere with the other and you would lose some signals. Also, you couldn't make the cassette deck cheaply if you made high strength magnetic recording part. So, what they did was used compressor/expander. It's a cheaper solution and very clever. They compressed the signal using analog signal processing technology and put that on the tape. Later when you play it back, you got much more highs and lows when expanded. If you listen to the raw signal without the expander, it sounds very muddy but with the magic of technology, the sound comes out much better with it than just normal recording. In my opinion, compressor really doesn't do much on today's digital recording and processing. Usually, all the equipment in the chain today will process on the average 50Hz to 18kHz. Some higher end will do even more. That's pretty much at the ends of the human hearing spectrum. With all the harmonics preserved between those frequencies, you will not really need a compressor, unless your recording is done at a very low sampling rate. If you look at the cassette tapes, those were barely from 500Hz to 16KHz even with compressor/expander scheme (this is my guess). Dolby noise reduction gave it more dynamic range due to better S/N ratio but it's still no where near our current technology. |
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| Author: | DannyG2006 [ Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Am considering getting one but am curious where to hook it up between. I am more concerned with the vocals than the music itself. My mixer does not have an effects loop. Can I hook my mikes into the channels of the compressor and from the compressor go into my mike channels or do I have to suck it up and hook it btween the mixer and the amp and compress everything? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
DannyG2006 @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:22 pm wrote: Am considering getting one but am curious where to hook it up between. I am more concerned with the vocals than the music itself. My mixer does not have an effects loop. Can I hook my mikes into the channels of the compressor and from the compressor go into my mike channels or do I have to suck it up and hook it btween the mixer and the amp and compress everything?
WHat model is your mixer? You wouldn't use the effects loop, you want insert points on the mic channels. If the mixer doesn't have this you could plug the mic directly to the compressor with XLR input/outputs. Not as effective but will work. You don't really want to compress everything for anything other than some very light compression for some added dynamics. If you use anything heavier (like you would on vocals) you will essentially be compressing like when a singer screams, it will turn the whole system down, but the scream will still be louder than the music. When you do just the mics, it turns down the mics only leaving the music at the same volume. |
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| Author: | DannyG2006 [ Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
Lonman @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:36 pm wrote: DannyG2006 @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:22 pm wrote: Am considering getting one but am curious where to hook it up between. I am more concerned with the vocals than the music itself. My mixer does not have an effects loop. Can I hook my mikes into the channels of the compressor and from the compressor go into my mike channels or do I have to suck it up and hook it btween the mixer and the amp and compress everything? WHat model is your mixer? You wouldn't use the effects loop, you want insert points on the mic channels. If the mixer doesn't have this you could plug the mic directly to the compressor with XLR input/outputs. Not as effective but will work. You don't really want to compress everything for anything other than some very light compression for some added dynamics. If you use anything heavier (like you would on vocals) you will essentially be compressing like when a singer screams, it will turn the whole system down, but the scream will still be louder than the music. When you do just the mics, it turns down the mics only leaving the music at the same volume. I am using a vocopro da-1000p mixer. That's what I was hoping to hear. I was wanting to connect my mikes into the compressor and then from the compressor into my mike channels. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limiting & compression |
DannyG2006 @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:43 pm wrote: Lonman @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:36 pm wrote: DannyG2006 @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:22 pm wrote: Am considering getting one but am curious where to hook it up between. I am more concerned with the vocals than the music itself. My mixer does not have an effects loop. Can I hook my mikes into the channels of the compressor and from the compressor go into my mike channels or do I have to suck it up and hook it btween the mixer and the amp and compress everything? WHat model is your mixer? You wouldn't use the effects loop, you want insert points on the mic channels. If the mixer doesn't have this you could plug the mic directly to the compressor with XLR input/outputs. Not as effective but will work. You don't really want to compress everything for anything other than some very light compression for some added dynamics. If you use anything heavier (like you would on vocals) you will essentially be compressing like when a singer screams, it will turn the whole system down, but the scream will still be louder than the music. When you do just the mics, it turns down the mics only leaving the music at the same volume. I am using a vocopro da-1000p mixer. That's what I was hoping to hear. I was wanting to connect my mikes into the compressor and then from the compressor into my mike channels. You should seriously consider upgrading to a better mixer, that one is just so limited. Having no inserts, just run the compressor inline, again not as effective but will work. If it has XLR inputs, use them over the 1/4". |
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