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| Author: | pm4877 [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | amp volume what setting |
If you guys are running a separate mixer with a separate amp, do you max out the amp volumes and just use the mixer to control volume. Or is there a separate setting you use. Just asking because I am going to get another setup which uses separate components. Instead of what I am using now, which is mixer and amp all in one unit. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
That's pretty much the way you'll do it. The mixer is your volume so open the amp wide open. |
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| Author: | pm4877 [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Thanks, lonman. Now one more question, why do they have volume controls on amps if you set it to max to begin with?? Just curious. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Well they really aren't volume controls, they are attenuators to match the input/output of some systems plus there are some situations where they are connected in such a way where there is no preamp (mixer) connected & then they do act more as a volume. Most sound engineers will run them wide open on a typical PA system. |
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| Author: | Keith02 [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Nope.......not true Power amps have attenuation knobbys so you can match the power going to speaker sets that posess differing sensitivities from each other. A more sensitive speak will be louder at same power input. Unless you are running more than one set of speaks, then you should simply crank the knobby to the max and forget them. Nah, let me explain better....... Let's say you are bi or tri amping and you need to power each set of drivers from a separate amp....If you examine the specs on the drivers/speakers, you will see that they vary in sensitivity......the more sensitive speaks require less amp power to be as loud as the less sensitive ones....so unless you attenuate the more sensitive speak's amp, those speaks will drown out the other speaks. The amount of attenuation is silk screened on the amp's knobby faceplate in plusses and minuses of Db. Simply examine the specs of the speaks and adjust the amp knobbys to match, then tweek by ear. If speaker set 1 is 96 Db sensitive, and speak set 2 is 100 Db sensitive, then crank down speak set 2 power amp 4 Db from max...... Simple, huh? If running only one amp, then crank that sucker to the max and control 'volume' at mixer masters. Always give your power amps full headroom-never attenuate them to control overall loudness....only attenuate the amp connected to most sensitive speaks and only as much as required. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
But if you are bi/tri amping you can always match the adjustment through the crossover settings as well as most likely there will be an external crossover. |
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| Author: | ssan586 [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
With powered speakers, is this pretty much the same thing? Max out the volume and amp settings on the speakers, and raise & lower the controls on the mixer? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
ssan586 @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:52 am wrote: With powered speakers, is this pretty much the same thing? Max out the volume and amp settings on the speakers, and raise & lower the controls on the mixer?
Same thing. |
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| Author: | Keith02 [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
What we are actually discussing here is system Gain Structure, so let's beat it to death with a full 'splanation...... To properly control loudness/gain, you gotta start with each strip input gain.....meter and tweek each input (mics n music) to peak right at 0 Db on the meter when PFL'd...... Then slide masters up to 0 Db and leave them there.....Yep, just leave them there thru the whole gig cause you are now going to control loudness via the channel slider that you input your music..........most likely a stereo strip slider, huh? ....and you will control each mic's loudness with it's channel strip slider Yep, if a particular music track is louder than the rest, simply reduce the slider for that strip, but leave the masters alone....if a singer is too hot, just tweek his mic strip slider and once again leave the masters alone. If you are set up properly, you will never see any strip slider higher than the masters even when cranked to the pain threshold. ANOTHER little "nice to know" bit of info is: ......Those knobs on your amps will not prevent the amps from hitting full power even tho you turned them down.....yep, they only determine how much input signal is needed to drive the amp to full power, so don't think they will save your speaks...only properly matched speaks/amps will save your speaks.......only proper gain structure will prevent clipping and distortion. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Keith02 @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:22 pm wrote: What we are actually discussing here is system Gain Structure, so let's beat it to death with a full 'splanation......
To properly control loudness/gain, you gotta start with each strip input gain.....meter and tweek each input (mics n music) to peak right at 0 Db on the meter when PFL'd...... Then slide masters up to 0 Db and leave them there.....Yep, just leave them there thru the whole gig cause you are now going to control loudness via the channel slider that you input your music..........most likely a stereo strip slider, huh? ....and you will control each mic's loudness with it's channel strip slider Yep, if a particular music track is louder than the rest, simply reduce the slider for that strip, but leave the masters alone....if a singer is too hot, just tweek his mic strip slider and once again leave the masters alone. If you are set up properly, you will never see any strip slider higher than the masters even when cranked to the pain threshold. ANOTHER little "nice to know" bit of info is: ......Those knobs on your amps will not prevent the amps from hitting full power even tho you turned them down.....yep, they only determine how much input signal is needed to drive the amp to full power, so don't think they will save your speaks...only properly matched speaks/amps will save your speaks.......only proper gain structure will prevent clipping and distortion. See I was taught just the opposite and every sound guy I worked with from theater engineers to clubbing bands has set up this way, the channels should be approx 0 & the master is your main overall. Here is a thread from FOH forums on the same line. http://www.fohonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1272 |
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| Author: | Keith02 [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Do what ever sounds best......BUT What would you rather have fail in the middle of a show, your master sliders or a strip slider? Constant use of your masters wear them out quickly....but if you wear out a channel slider, simply jack into the one next to it.....even stereo can be input using two strips-one for left-one for right. My method avoids overdriving the summing amps and prevents wear on the masters and also keeps things simple....it's easier to tweek the music slider when the music is too loud/soft than to adjust the masters AND then also have to adjust the mics....when you attenuate the masters, you also attenute all inputs.....best to leave the door wide open and control what enters. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Keith02 @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:34 pm wrote: Do what ever sounds best......BUT
What would you rather have fail in the middle of a show, your master sliders or a strip slider? Constant use of your masters wear them out quickly....but if you wear out a channel slider, simply jack into the one next to it.....even stereo can be input using two strips-one for left-one for right. My method avoids overdriving the summing amps and prevents wear on the masters and also keeps things simple....it's easier to tweek the music slider when the music is too loud/soft than to adjust the masters AND then also have to adjust the mics....when you attenuate the masters, you also attenute all inputs.....best to leave the door wide open and control what enters. Ah, see I don't constantly adjust the master, once I have the master set it is pretty much set for the night unless I need a boost in volume, but not at the 0 point. Once the channel strips are set at the 0 point, this is the starting guideline & then I adjust up or down as needed through the channel not the master. Also if I have a channel failure, I would have to do some rewiring of the effects to regain an empty channel, 16 channels & all full and used at some point in a night. |
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| Author: | Keith02 [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: amp volume what setting |
Ok, but.............that doesn't answer the question. What are those knobs on the power amp for ??????? 
Seriously......I'm glad at how the tech knowlege level here has improved over the years....This site is starting to offer KJ's some real info that can help them improve their sound/shows. |
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