Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix

I haven't decided yet on what to do. I go back and forth trying to decide which mixer to buy. Some features that I want are: 1. Must be able to have both main and monitor mix adjustments 2. At least 4-6 XLR inputs 3. Quality built in effects(not critical) 4. High quality mic preamps

I'll be using it for my singing shows and for Karaoke hosting. I have a dual 31 band EQ and will be getting one or two amplifiers and probably a crossover. I may get an external vocal effects processor.

I had almost decided on a Soundcraft mixer and I was watching one on ebay. Then I ran a fairly large Peavey mini console mixer this past weekend for a jazz festival and it had monitor level adjustment knobs for each channel and it also had a pair of faders to control all the monitors on all channels. It had high, mid and low freq control knobs for each channel, gain for each channel, a mute button and effects control knobs for each channel. It had a pair of faders for the mains and a fader for each channel. I liked the amount of control this mixer gave me. I could tweak the drums individually, each vocal mic and every instrument or group that was miced. I could also put certain instruments or vocal mics in the monitors or remove them from the monitors. You could really adjust the overall mix pretty precisely.

Anyways, for hosting I want to be able to have control over each mic channel as far as 3 band frequency EQ, effects, monitors etc. Since I'm mobile I'd like to keep the mixer as small and light as possible without giving up the features I want. I'd like to also be able to push a button and run in mono. I don't know if this is on the mixer, the amp or the crossover. I would prefer to run in mono. I want everyone regardless of where they are sitting to hear the same thing.

What I want this for is to use the same mixer for myself when I perform using maybe two microphones or for hosting where I might use as many as 4 different microphones. I won't ever need a bunch of inputs for this rig. The most I can imagine is 6 XLR inputs and one or two tape/CD inputs.

I read on a DJ board where someone said that they had the option to change to mono mode by pressing a button, I guess this isn't a common feature. I like the idea that the Yamaha has a simplified compression built in using a single knob, but I don't really understand it's benefits completely.

On my EMX512 I can't use it turned up very much because I start getting feedback, I haven't figured out why.

It's more prone to feeding back when I have the effects up high and I turn the compression up.

I noticed that with my new Electro Voice ZX1s that I have to turn everything WAY up to ever get feedback. The ZX1s are MUCH less prone to feedback than any of my other speakers. They put out a high SPL for their size and they are a pleasure to carry.

I did a bunch of reading since starting this thread and one thing I noticed were comments about going from an entry level to a higher quality mixer that they could hear parts of the music that they didn't hear before and that the sound was clearer and cleaner. Hard to know what's wishful thinking and what's real sound improvement.

Anyways, for hosting I want to be able to have control over each mic channel as far as 3 band frequency EQ, effects, monitors etc. Since I'm mobile I'd like to keep the mixer as small and light as possible without giving up the features I want. I'd like to also be able to push a button and run in mono. I don't know if this is on the mixer, the amp or the crossover. I would prefer to run in mono. I want everyone regardless of where they are sitting to hear the same thing.

Author:	stogie [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I haven't decided yet on what to do. I go back and forth trying to decide which mixer to buy. Some features that I want are: 1. Must be able to have both main and monitor mix adjustments 2. At least 4-6 XLR inputs 3. Quality built in effects(not critical) 4. High quality mic preamps I'll be using it for my singing shows and for Karaoke hosting. I have a dual 31 band EQ and will be getting one or two amplifiers and probably a crossover. I may get an external vocal effects processor.

Author:	mckyj57 [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
stogie @ Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:43 pm wrote: I haven't decided yet on what to do. I go back and forth trying to decide which mixer to buy. Some features that I want are: 1. Must be able to have both main and monitor mix adjustments 2. At least 4-6 XLR inputs 3. Quality built in effects(not critical) 4. High quality mic preamps I'll be using it for my singing shows and for Karaoke hosting. I have a dual 31 band EQ and will be getting one or two amplifiers and probably a crossover. I may get an external vocal effects processor. Yamaha MG124CX has all those features plus compression. Unless you spend quite a bit more money, I doubt you will find one much better. The Soundcraft FX8 has Lexicon effects and probably better preamps, but will set you back a fair amount more than the Yamaha.

Author:	stogie [ Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I had almost decided on a Soundcraft mixer and I was watching one on ebay. Then I ran a fairly large Peavey mini console mixer this past weekend for a jazz festival and it had monitor level adjustment knobs for each channel and it also had a pair of faders to control all the monitors on all channels. It had high, mid and low freq control knobs for each channel, gain for each channel, a mute button and effects control knobs for each channel. It had a pair of faders for the mains and a fader for each channel. I liked the amount of control this mixer gave me. I could tweak the drums individually, each vocal mic and every instrument or group that was miced. I could also put certain instruments or vocal mics in the monitors or remove them from the monitors. You could really adjust the overall mix pretty precisely. Anyways, for hosting I want to be able to have control over each mic channel as far as 3 band frequency EQ, effects, monitors etc. Since I'm mobile I'd like to keep the mixer as small and light as possible without giving up the features I want. I'd like to also be able to push a button and run in mono. I don't know if this is on the mixer, the amp or the crossover. I would prefer to run in mono. I want everyone regardless of where they are sitting to hear the same thing. What I want this for is to use the same mixer for myself when I perform using maybe two microphones or for hosting where I might use as many as 4 different microphones. I won't ever need a bunch of inputs for this rig. The most I can imagine is 6 XLR inputs and one or two tape/CD inputs.

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
The Yamaha is fine for what you need & sounds good.

Author:	mckyj57 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
stogie @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:52 am wrote: I had almost decided on a Soundcraft mixer and I was watching one on ebay. Then I ran a fairly large Peavey mini console mixer this past weekend for a jazz festival and it had monitor level adjustment knobs for each channel and it also had a pair of faders to control all the monitors on all channels. It had high, mid and low freq control knobs for each channel, gain for each channel, a mute button and effects control knobs for each channel. It had a pair of faders for the mains and a fader for each channel. I liked the amount of control this mixer gave me. I could tweak the drums individually, each vocal mic and every instrument or group that was miced. I could also put certain instruments or vocal mics in the monitors or remove them from the monitors. You could really adjust the overall mix pretty precisely. Anyways, for hosting I want to be able to have control over each mic channel as far as 3 band frequency EQ, effects, monitors etc. Since I'm mobile I'd like to keep the mixer as small and light as possible without giving up the features I want. I'd like to also be able to push a button and run in mono. I don't know if this is on the mixer, the amp or the crossover. I would prefer to run in mono. I want everyone regardless of where they are sitting to hear the same thing. What I want this for is to use the same mixer for myself when I perform using maybe two microphones or for hosting where I might use as many as 4 different microphones. I won't ever need a bunch of inputs for this rig. The most I can imagine is 6 XLR inputs and one or two tape/CD inputs. The Yamaha MG124CX has every one of those features, plus the compression you will want to sound your best when performing. As far as "push a button and run in mono" I don't know what you are talking about. Typically you have to set up speakers one way for mono and one for stereo, so there is always some output re-routing. I run the Yamaha in mono, which involves using two channels for my karaoke / backing track source.

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Author:	stogie [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I read on a DJ board where someone said that they had the option to change to mono mode by pressing a button, I guess this isn't a common feature. I like the idea that the Yamaha has a simplified compression built in using a single knob, but I don't really understand it's benefits completely. On my EMX512 I can't use it turned up very much because I start getting feedback, I haven't figured out why. It's more prone to feeding back when I have the effects up high and I turn the compression up. I noticed that with my new Electro Voice ZX1s that I have to turn everything WAY up to ever get feedback. The ZX1s are MUCH less prone to feedback than any of my other speakers. They put out a high SPL for their size and they are a pleasure to carry. I did a bunch of reading since starting this thread and one thing I noticed were comments about going from an entry level to a higher quality mixer that they could hear parts of the music that they didn't hear before and that the sound was clearer and cleaner. Hard to know what's wishful thinking and what's real sound improvement.

Author:	mckyj57 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
stogie @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:29 am wrote: I read on a DJ board where someone said that they had the option to change to mono mode by pressing a button, I guess this isn't a common feature. I like the idea that the Yamaha has a simplified compression built in using a single knob, but I don't really understand it's benefits completely. Basically, it allows you to use your dynamic range without using the moving mic technique to try and avoid problems on loud passages. If you get used to it, then you will notice the lack. Quote: On my EMX512 I can't use it turned up very much because I start getting feedback, I haven't figured out why. You don't want it "turned up". It should normally be about midrange and left there. Quote: It's more prone to feeding back when I have the effects up high and I turn the compression up. Yes, the amount of FX will have an effect on feedback, to be sure. Particularly if you have the midrange eq boosted. I like to use external effects run through and equalizer and roll off all the frequencies below 3K. You can also help feedback by rolling off the low EQ on the mic channels. (Thanks Lon!) Quote: I noticed that with my new Electro Voice ZX1s that I have to turn everything WAY up to ever get feedback. The ZX1s are MUCH less prone to feedback than any of my other speakers. They put out a high SPL for their size and they are a pleasure to carry. I did a bunch of reading since starting this thread and one thing I noticed were comments about going from an entry level to a higher quality mixer that they could hear parts of the music that they didn't hear before and that the sound was clearer and cleaner. Hard to know what's wishful thinking and what's real sound improvement. You can get "audiophiles" to claim they hear a difference in anything. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/speaker-cabl ... 302478.php In a live environment it is unlikely that changing from the Yamaha to something else is going to make an appreciable difference. Using a top-quality microphone is going to make loads more difference to the sound. I am constantly amazed at people who spend thousands of dollars on great sounding kit and then front it with crappy microphones. Why bother?

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
Yes there are differences in sound between higher end mixers as opposed to low end models. Allen & Heath (higher end) over Behringer (low end) is a huge difference in clarity & noise. I noticed a large difference between my Mackie CFX12 vs my Mackie 1642VLZ3 - it was night & day which really surprised me.

Author:	stogie [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
Very good point about the difference that a high quality microphone can make. At the Jazz festival the last act on the second day which was the headliner for that day used a Shure Beta and the sound was so noticeably clearer and better sounding than the cheap microphones we were using. Unfortunately I didn't find out which Beta it was. If I get another microphone it will be a Shure Beta. That was the second time recently that I have had some exposure to a Beta.

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
Beta 58, Beta 86 & Beta 87 are pretty common vocal mics. If the sound was 'that much clearer' I would say it was probably the 86 or 87 - both of these are condensor mics requiring phantom power.

Author:	stogie [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I have been trying to do everything on a tight budget for the past year or so and I have found some great deals on ebay and craig's list. This time though on the mixer I don't want to cut corners. I want a really good mixer and will spend the extra $100-$200 more for the Soundcraft mixer or other high quality mixer. I figure over several years the difference in price on this one component isn't much, but the difference in sound quality will be well worth it. Two things I plan on spending a bit more on are the mixer and a Shure Beta wireless. The Shure Beta wireless will have to wait. I'm getting busier and busier so spending more money on equipment will be easier to justify. Once I get these few items I'll be set for a few years unless I have something fail on me that needs to be replaced. I'm set for speakers that's for sure.

Author:	stogie [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I would be willing to bet that it was the beta 86 or 87. It was that clear and crisp and you could hear that it was a hot mic. That mic cut through the mix and caught my attention, it was that noticeable. All of our mics that we were using were basic Samson or Behringer dynamic mics and they are fine for most singers and most entry level situations-most people can't tell the difference. This band was very good, very professional with professional equipment and they knew how to use their instruments, it was obvious that they were pros. When you have several acts during the day like that you can really see and compare the difference between the different skill levels.

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
stogie @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:52 am wrote: Anyways, for hosting I want to be able to have control over each mic channel as far as 3 band frequency EQ, effects, monitors etc. Since I'm mobile I'd like to keep the mixer as small and light as possible without giving up the features I want. I'd like to also be able to push a button and run in mono. I don't know if this is on the mixer, the amp or the crossover. I would prefer to run in mono. I want everyone regardless of where they are sitting to hear the same thing. If you want more versatility in the channel eq, look for a mixer that has a 3 band eq with a sweepable mid. This is SO much better than just a standard 3 band with one fixed midrange control. Running mono, some of the mixers have this option, either with a routing switch or a separate mono output. I run a Mackie 1642VLZ3 that has a mono out or you can select a mono configuration through the subgroups to the main out. Which SOundcraft model are you looking at?

Author:	LondonLive [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I'm glad to hear that you are considering moving up a notch. One thing to keep in mind is that if you ever decide to resell you will get a larger portion of your initial investment back. I wouldn't even be afraid to buy a used higher quality board, if you can find one for a good price. You can usually use it as long as you want and get most, if not all your money back if you choose to resell it later. As far as a sound difference, that would be an understatement. One quick example. I used to use an SRC6032 Peavey (their top of the line at the time). I had to punch up the low end on my Driverack by 6db to get the bottom I wanted. I switched to an Allen & Heath Mix Wiz 14:4:2 primarily because of its size. I quickly discovered that all the hype about Allen Heaths preamps and EQ section wasn't hype, it was fact. The Allen Heath brought out things I didn't even realize I was missing. With a four band EQ with sweepable high and low mids on the mic channels and a traditional four band shelving EQ on the stereo channels, the Allen Heath allows you to shape a sound anyway you need it. Plus the build quality is outstanding. The EQ section is so responsive you might not have a need for a external 31 band. By the way, I had to reset the Driverack back to zero on the bottoms to keep from destroying venues. You do get what you pay for.

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Author:	stogie [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I'm back to leaning towards the Souncraft EFX8 or if I can find a used Spirit FX8 on ebay I'll snatch it up. I just missed one that had slight shipping damage. It went for a paltry $130. I read that the newer EFX8 uses the full Lexicon effects that you would find on an external unit. They are $399 on most major internet resellers like Musician's Friend etc. For the little difference in price on such a critical piece of equipment I'll step up from the Yamaha. I have respect for Yamaha products, but I have a hunch that the Soundcraft mixer will be better. The compression on the Yamaha is a nice feature, but not enough to sway me. For $269 the Yamaha is well worth the price, but the Lexicon effects are one of the major reasons I want a Soundcraft mixer. I need better effects than what I have on my current Yamaha mixer. If I end up not really needing the EQ that I bought, I'll put it up on ebay, I only payed $70 for it. I have a feeling I will find a combination EQ and crossover for around $100-$150 and I'll have one less component to carry around. As far as resale you are so right. My EMX512 will fetch $350-$450 on ebay, a new one goes for $569. I was really lucky when I got it off ebay for $350 a year ago when my new Behringer PMP3000 fried within 30 days of buying it.

Author:	stogie [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mixer for Mains and monitor mix
I just went and looked again and the EFX8 has sweepable mid EQ.