Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?

i agree lonman. 8ohm is important. often u see a stage monitor put in the loop dropping one side to 4 ohm. so i say get another amp always run at 8 ohm. frequency range is important to me so i like my klipsch as well. cheers

Just trying to get a feel for this as I'm not exactly a live audio guru but what do you look for in a speaker? Obviously for karaoke purposes. Lonman, whats your opinion?

Cabinet material: Wood, Plastic, etc.
Which cable connection and why?:
Powered or passive and why?:
Ohms:
Amps:
Watts per channel:
Size: 10" 12" or 15"
Qty:
Monitor:
Brand:
Model:
Anything Else you think might be important:

Is there a way to change the connectors on the back of a speaker and is it safe to do so?i.e. change the 1/4 inch connector for a Speak On Connector?

No real specific numbers to look for. But say I settle on an 8 ohm 2 way cabinet with a 500 watt PROGRAM rating, I want to make sure my amp can push 500 watts per speaker at the 8 ohm rating.
The size of the driver, I don't so much necessarily choose a certain size. Although most PA speakers consider a 12" or smaller more for midrange/low mid use in conjunction with a separate sub underneath them. Unless a club is so small that it couldn't fit a 15" cabinet, then I would most likely go with a 15" main cabinet design.
Speakers have a sensitivity rating. A sensitivity rating tells you how effectively a speaker converts power (watts) into volume (decibels). The higher the rating, the louder your speakers will play with a given amount of amplifier power. Sensitivity is often measured by driving a speaker with one watt and measuring the loudness in decibels at one meter.

The example below shows that a few dB in sensitivity can make a big difference:

Speaker Sensitivity
SENSITIVITY RATING Power required to produce a given volume
Speaker A 85 dB 100 watts
Speaker B 88 dB 50 watts
Speaker C 91 dB 25 watts

A speaker with a sensitivity rating that's 3 dB higher than another speaker's
only needs half as much power to deliver the same amount of sound.

Also one I forgot to add is SPL rating, this should also be as high as possible, kind of goes in conjunction with the sensitivity. Here is a nice little calculator (for home theater but still works) to determine approx spl (sound pressure level) for a given speaker in a given situation. You can change the sensitivity to see what the difference would be. Use the 500 watt amp as an example, then even change that.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

I was looking to see if the white space in the message spelled "QSC"....

This post was intended to try to get an understanding of what some of the more technically minded posters value in choosing their speakers, not really random messages. So if anyone has a response, thats not brand specific or a plug, that'd be great.

A lot of useful info in here so far too. But again, just looking for "technical" choices that produce the best sound in personal opinions.

I'd personally love to here your replies as long as they are relevent to the question at hand. Some of them are. Some of them aren't. I just dont feel this topic as with many others has anything to do with the rebate and 6 year warranty, etc. I'm sure from your posts, that you have quite a bit more technical sound knowledge than I. Just stay on topic, know what I mean.

Author:	BamaRob [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Just trying to get a feel for this as I'm not exactly a live audio guru but what do you look for in a speaker? Obviously for karaoke purposes. Lonman, whats your opinion? Cabinet material: Wood, Plastic, etc. Which cable connection and why?: Powered or passive and why?: Ohms: Amps: Watts per channel: Size: 10" 12" or 15" Qty: Monitor: Brand: Model: Anything Else you think might be important:

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
For me I will stay with a name brand, very risky not to. Then I look at the specs. Power ratings (making sure the amp will properly mate), ohms (again same with the amp), frequency response and more importantly the sensitivity. This should be as high as possible. I also prefer a speaker that can be bi-amped without having to rewire the internals. Many of the cheaper speakers today don't have this capability. Box type & design can play a factor, typically a denser (heavier) box will sound much better than a lightweight box, also the materials can also alter sound. Passive gives more options for upgrading, but powered has some definite perks as far as compact, usually a little lighter, amps are made for the speakers, etc.

Author:	BamaRob [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Good info, but specific numbers, what do you look for? Say if you were looking to purchase amps and speakers at the same time, what amps ohms watts speaker connections etc. would be ideal. Keyword being what is ideal? Also by sensativity you mean? What about sizes and qty for a moderate to small venue? I see so far that preferably: bi-amped wood cab vs plastic

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
No real specific numbers to look for. But say I settle on an 8 ohm 2 way cabinet with a 500 watt PROGRAM rating, I want to make sure my amp can push 500 watts per speaker at the 8 ohm rating. The size of the driver, I don't so much necessarily choose a certain size. Although most PA speakers consider a 12" or smaller more for midrange/low mid use in conjunction with a separate sub underneath them. Unless a club is so small that it couldn't fit a 15" cabinet, then I would most likely go with a 15" main cabinet design. Speakers have a sensitivity rating. A sensitivity rating tells you how effectively a speaker converts power (watts) into volume (decibels). The higher the rating, the louder your speakers will play with a given amount of amplifier power. Sensitivity is often measured by driving a speaker with one watt and measuring the loudness in decibels at one meter. The example below shows that a few dB in sensitivity can make a big difference: Speaker Sensitivity SENSITIVITY RATING Power required to produce a given volume Speaker A 85 dB 100 watts Speaker B 88 dB 50 watts Speaker C 91 dB 25 watts A speaker with a sensitivity rating that's 3 dB higher than another speaker's only needs half as much power to deliver the same amount of sound. Also one I forgot to add is SPL rating, this should also be as high as possible, kind of goes in conjunction with the sensitivity. Here is a nice little calculator (for home theater but still works) to determine approx spl (sound pressure level) for a given speaker in a given situation. You can change the sensitivity to see what the difference would be. Use the 500 watt amp as an example, then even change that. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Author:	vamp [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
i agree lonman. 8ohm is important. often u see a stage monitor put in the loop dropping one side to 4 ohm. so i say get another amp always run at 8 ohm. frequency range is important to me so i like my klipsch as well. cheers

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Author:	Lonman [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
vamp @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:34 pm wrote: i agree lonman. 8ohm is important. often u see a stage monitor put in the loop dropping one side to 4 ohm. so i say get another amp always run at 8 ohm. frequency range is important to me so i like my klipsch as well. cheers Well IMO the ohms is important, however, a 4 ohm speaker is sometimes a needed option - even in some extreme cases where 2 ohms is desireable, but then you definitely need an amp that is stable to that load. But a proper match to the speaker is very important regarding ohms & PROGRAM rating.

Author:	supercharged [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
lonman has covered the speaker selection as well as anyone could i think. I would only add to the question that I prefer Speakon type connectors. 1/4 inch does get the job done, however a speakon can handle 2 signals where a 1/4 can only handle one. also the speakon locks into the speaker so it can't pull out.

Author:	BruceFan4Life [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Okay, I'll admit it. I have two 15 inch Radio Shack PA speakers hooked up to a Yamaha amp mixer in my living room. The amp mixer only has 1/4 inch outputs for speakers and the speakers only have 1/4 inch & two small screw on type adapters on the back. One of these connectors is red and the other is black. I'm not really sure what these other connectors are for. I was wondering if they are there as pass through connectors so I could run additional speakers(sub woofer?) from them or if they are just an alternate way to hook up the speakers to the amp? Is there a cable that has a 1/4 inch connector on one end and just 2 wires on the other end? Are those two connectors what they call banana connectors? I understand the benefits of Speak On connectors but do they have any effect on the sound? I assume I would have to buy a new mixer and a new speakers if I wanted to use Speak On connectors and it just doesn't make sense for a system that never gets moved. I have my 1/4 inch cables routed around the edge of the room and behind the sofas so there isn't a chance of someone tripping over them and disconnecting them. I play the music fairly loud and never seem to get any distortion from the speakers. The only time I get any feedback seems to be when I turn up the effects too high on the mixer. I did have one of the tweeters blow when a friend came over and hooked up a vocal enhancer to my system. He did something and it made a loud noise and the tweeter had to be replaced. Is there a way to change the connectors on the back of a speaker and is it safe to do so?i.e. change the 1/4 inch connector for a Speak On Connector? I seem to get plenty of bass from the 15 inch woofers but would a sub woofer help and how could I hook it up in this system? Would I need a separate amp?

Author:	Micky [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Robby H. @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:06 pm wrote: Just trying to get a feel for this as I'm not exactly a live audio guru but what do you look for in a speaker? Obviously for karaoke purposes. Lonman, whats your opinion? Cabinet material: Wood, Plastic, etc. Which cable connection and why?: Powered or passive and why?: Ohms: Amps: Watts per channel: Size: 10" 12" or 15" Qty: Monitor: Brand: Model: Anything Else you think might be important: Yes, another thing that's really important, in fact, it's the most important, it's how the speakers sounds Technically, everything have been said, but, that's on paper The final decision has to be done with your own ears I've stopped my searching and testing on Electro-Voice, they build speakers the way it should, solid, powerful, RICH & SMOOTH!!

Author:	LondonLive [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Quote: Is there a way to change the connectors on the back of a speaker and is it safe to do so?i.e. change the 1/4 inch connector for a Speak On Connector? Of course it can be done, Speakons are not rocket science. Is it a "must have" in your case, probably not. Here's a brief discusion on Speakon's from an earlier post. http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic. ... &highlight

Author:	JD [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Robby H. @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:06 pm wrote: Just trying to get a feel for this as I'm not exactly a live audio guru but what do you look for in a speaker? Obviously for karaoke purposes. Lonman, whats your opinion? Cabinet material: Wood, Plastic, etc. Which cable connection and why?: Powered or passive and why?: Ohms: Amps: Watts per channel: Size: 10" 12" or 15" Qty: Monitor: Brand: Model: Anything Else you think might be important: The thing that separates the goat from the sheep is the response. You want a flat response as possible across the frequency range. A separate amp and speaker combo can complicate it. A powered speaker is designed to maximize efficiency while improving the response. So if you have a given response to begin with then all you have to deal with is the acoustical environment, otherwise it's a double crap shoot.

Author:	JD [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Lonman @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:13 pm wrote: No real specific numbers to look for. But say I settle on an 8 ohm 2 way cabinet with a 500 watt PROGRAM rating, I want to make sure my amp can push 500 watts per speaker at the 8 ohm rating. The size of the driver, I don't so much necessarily choose a certain size. Although most PA speakers consider a 12" or smaller more for midrange/low mid use in conjunction with a separate sub underneath them. Unless a club is so small that it couldn't fit a 15" cabinet, then I would most likely go with a 15" main cabinet design. Speakers have a sensitivity rating. A sensitivity rating tells you how effectively a speaker converts power (watts) into volume (decibels). The higher the rating, the louder your speakers will play with a given amount of amplifier power. Sensitivity is often measured by driving a speaker with one watt and measuring the loudness in decibels at one meter. The example below shows that a few dB in sensitivity can make a big difference: Speaker Sensitivity SENSITIVITY RATING Power required to produce a given volume Speaker A 85 dB 100 watts Speaker B 88 dB 50 watts Speaker C 91 dB 25 watts A speaker with a sensitivity rating that's 3 dB higher than another speaker's only needs half as much power to deliver the same amount of sound. Also one I forgot to add is SPL rating, this should also be as high as possible, kind of goes in conjunction with the sensitivity. Here is a nice little calculator (for home theater but still works) to determine approx spl (sound pressure level) for a given speaker in a given situation. You can change the sensitivity to see what the difference would be. Use the 500 watt amp as an example, then even change that. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html I might add that SPL and Sensitivity are measured at a particular frequency and will vary with wattage across the frequency range. A sub frequency can require about 10 times the wattage power of a higher frequency to equal the same audible loudness. Of course these measurements are taken or should be across the actual speaker load. If you take the measurement across the ac load then that's a different story. The wattage is usually a lot higher and there are other measurements such as frequency vs. distortion that may occur with the amp output. These are done at fixed frequencies but have a more profound effect when playing music across the spectrum of sound. Usually when an amp heats up the distortion gets worse at higher frequencies. The lower frequencies have a tendency to dissipate wattage and heat(a lower frequency is closer to to a dc output that will also heat up a speaker). With subs having an SPL at 130 or so the difference is subtle compared to anything above or below about 3dB. I think the ears can definitely detect a difference around 3dB or greater with some people slightly below that at various frequencies.

Author:	Lonman [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Uh huh!

Author:	mckyj57 [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
I was looking to see if the white space in the message spelled "QSC"....

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Author:	JD [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
mckyj57 @ Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:48 pm wrote: I was looking to see if the white space in the message spelled "QSC".... No it was Renkus-Heinz and to be truthful about powered speakers. I would bet my money on a Bose L1 Model II w/ their 2 subs. But QSC is much cheaper and a better value with a rebate and 6 year warranty. As for Mackies no comment. For the time being I'll dream and drool.

Author:	JD [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
mckyj57 @ Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:48 pm wrote: I was looking to see if the white space in the message spelled "QSC".... I got one even better. Forget about the Bose, I'll take one of these steerable linear arrays. http://www.rh.com/products/products.html

Author:	BamaRob [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
This post was intended to try to get an understanding of what some of the more technically minded posters value in choosing their speakers, not really random messages. So if anyone has a response, thats not brand specific or a plug, that'd be great. A lot of useful info in here so far too. But again, just looking for "technical" choices that produce the best sound in personal opinions.

Author:	JD [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Robby H. @ Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:57 am wrote: This post was intended to try to get an understanding of what some of the more technically minded posters value in choosing their speakers, not really random messages. So if anyone has a response, thats not brand specific or a plug, that'd be great. A lot of useful info in here so far too. But again, just looking for "technical" choices that produce the best sound in personal opinions. If you care to educate yourself about these line array types of speakers you'll find that you don't need a monitor, you can hear yourself (a common problem with karaoke), everyone hears the same thing, they're compact and simple to set up, the sound dispersion is way above average, sound reflection is minimized, the sound is crystal clear, and there's no feedback. These are some of the valid technical important choices for many people who use them. Oh sorry, I forgot, my opinion doesn't matter here.

Author:	BamaRob [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
I'd personally love to here your replies as long as they are relevent to the question at hand. Some of them are. Some of them aren't. I just dont feel this topic as with many others has anything to do with the rebate and 6 year warranty, etc. I'm sure from your posts, that you have quite a bit more technical sound knowledge than I. Just stay on topic, know what I mean.

Author:	JD [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What is tecnically important to you in a speaker choice?
Robby H. @ Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:55 pm wrote: I'd personally love to here your replies as long as they are relevent to the question at hand. Some of them are. Some of them aren't. I just dont feel this topic as with many others has anything to do with the rebate and 6 year warranty, etc. I'm sure from your posts, that you have quite a bit more technical sound knowledge than I. Just stay on topic, know what I mean. I disagree and feel that these are important things regarding speakers. I'm not talking about pricing either. I'm just wondering why you're the authority on who's opinion is and what isn't important.