Yep ! You get what you pay for. They wanted a $40 show and they got one.
OOh sooo sad, but true.
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| Rock Bottom karaoke https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15271 |
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| Author: | TopherM [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rock Bottom karaoke |
This couple that comes to my karaoke show off and on for the last few years told me last week that they had secured their own karaoke show at a local bar, so they invited me to come out for their first show. I decided to go check it out, and OH NO!! I hope this is not a sign of the karaoke times: They were running off the bar's house system. The bar's system was actually quite good equipment, with two 15" JBL mains and two top notch Cerwin-Vega folded horn subs, all built into a DJ booth. HOWEVER, the quality ended there: They plugged a $20.00 Wal-Mart karaoke player into the house system and used the mic that came with that system as their singer's mic. They had about a 200 song selection that managed to fill 2.5 one-sided pages, created in MS Excel. About 1/3 the songs didn't have the artist listed, and there were two notes on the last page apologizing for not knowing the artists and for the fact that about 1/2 of those 200 songs had the guide vocals on them. Their EQ was horrible. When I went to go try to help them out, they stated that they didn't want to mess with the house DJ's EQ settings (there was a decent DJ mixer built into the booth). As a result, their settings for all of the channels, including the vocal channel, were set for a hip-hop rap dance club. The highs and lows were boosted with the mids cut. As a result, of course, the vocals were horribly muddy and lost in the overwhelming bass. To top it all off, they set up their monitor so that it was facing the audience, which meant that the singer was actually facing back at the KJ with their back to the audience. It also meant that the singer was facing the mic right at those massive subs, which created feedback on almost every song. Finally, about 1/2 way through the show, when they were just starting to get the hang of working the rotation and mixing filler, the couple running the show announced that it was their wedding anniversery. The guy brought out a cake and a bottle of champagne, and proceeded to play 2 slow dance songs for them (the hosts) to dance to, then another 3-4 songs while they ate cake and drank champagne in the DJ booth. Weird mood killer for the audience. Anyway, the whole night was a disaster. Just goes to show that not just anyone can KJ. But here's the kicker. I was chatting with the owner during the show just feeling out what he was thinking about the show, and seeing if I might be able to pick up an easy gig if the price was right (8:00 to midnight, using the house system...piece of cake!!). I got him to tell me what he pays his KJs, and he said.........$40.00 a night. NO THANKS!! |
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| Author: | Karen K [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
Karaoke Twilight Zone. It is amazing to me that there are owners who have NO CLUE what a gold mine karaoke can be ... and that TRULY you get what you pay for. What you are describing above is what has given karaoke such a poor reputation. I can't imagine anyone actually singing in a place like that. ARGGGGG.... |
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| Author: | Babs [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
Yep ! You get what you pay for. They wanted a $40 show and they got one.
OOh sooo sad, but true. |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
Yes, I am not surprised. What amazes me is how *long* some of these go on. One fellow has a show where he runs both Sax & Dotty's and MTU Hoster on the same machine -- one with one set of songs, one with another. If he doesn't have it in one, he searches the other. He has mostly his CB disks in Hoster, because he couldn't get its ripper to recognize other manufacturers (I can sympathize there). I first saw this situation a year and a half ago. I went back recently -- nothing has changed. I have now been to almost 200 different karaoke shows in 22 states and provinces. I would say the sound and setup are excellent in less than 10%, good in 25-30%, fair to poor in 25%, and pitiful in 20-30%. Basically half of shows were pretty bad. Most common defects? Bad EQ or bad system, by far, is the most common. There are tons of the old karaoke mixer amps still out there, and they sound bad in almost all cases. Lousy mics is the next most common. |
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| Author: | diafel [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
If I saw a show like that, first I would laugh, then I would go tell the owner why I was leaving. |
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| Author: | mrscott [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
I had a similar situation but in reverse happen to me several years ago. I was doing this one particular show, and thought everything was going very well. The slowest night I had while I was there, we had 63 people in the bar. Not too bad, IMO, for a "slow" night. And that was the week before Easter. I sorta figured it would be slightly slower than previous weeks. Anyways, the owner calls me up before the next friday show, and cancels. His excuse and reasoning was that it was Easter weekend, and he believede it would be deadly slow. I told him OK, but that is really not the best decision. He also told me he wanted to cancel altogether for the summer, because summers are typically slow in my neck of the woods. Ok,,,i'll give him that, but what about consistency???...He then told me he would call me back at the end of the summer. He never did. I learned later that he bought a cd+g player and hooked it into his crappy house sound system, bought about 20 karaoke discs, and hired a lady for 35 dollars per night. DOH!, he never could figure out why his "slow" night of 63, while I was there, turned into a busy night of 4....hmmmmm,,,GO FIGURE!!!. He never recovered, and has closed down a few times, opened again, over and over...What a way to run a business!! |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
Had the double whammy tonight. We went to a place we hadn't been to for a long time, that at one time had karaoke and I heard it was back. I called to verify the start time, 9pm. The host(s) were there when we arrived at 8:30, seemingly already set up. They were sitting there looking at their computer. When I went over and asked if they could play my disks, I got stares and monosyllables but a yes. I brought over our disks and some slips, and they said they would start at 9pm. We ordered dinner, ate. Meanwhile I am looking at the setup. Behringer B215 speakers *under* their Lifetime table everything is set up on. Two of the cheapest Nady corded mics with plastic cables. A CAVS player, a Numark DJ mixer, and a home theater amp hooked to the B215s. 9pm comes and goes, then 9:30. The place has filled with about 40 people. We are sitting in full view of the hosts, who continue to sit there and stare at their computer. It gets to be 9:40, and I asked for our check and we left. I knew that even if we stayed and sang, the sound was going to be so bad that it wouldn't be worth doing. We have been there an hour and ten minutes, eaten dinner, and weren't even given the slightest courtesy by the karaoke hosts. They watched us wait for karaoke for an hour, come and collect our disks, and didn't say a word when we left. We go to the next place, where I know the sound is terrible. (A country bar with one of the help cobbling together a system, about 80 random CDGs). My friend Sid shows up, and he has been over at the other place -- they must have arrived just as we left. He got up and sang with the speakers pointing at his knees, couldn't hear himself at all standing 2 feet from the speakers. When he mentioned it to the hosts, he got the same stares I got. He left mid-song -- with the crappy corded mics he couldn't get far enough from the speakers to hear at all. So I went to two gigs, spent a fair amount of money, and received almost nothing in the way of karaoke satisfaction. Both shows were terrible, and as is the case at lots of shows the single biggest culprit is speaker placement. What are people thinking when they put speakers on the floor? I guess I shouldn't even ask, because - that is so far from having a clue that it doesn't deserve the name. I know now why karaoke gets such a bad name in many places. I would be doing the karaoke world a favor if I came in and stole their show, and it wouldn't bother me a bit ethically if I did. They don't deserve to have one, they give karaoke a bad name. |
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| Author: | darway [ Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
Regarding the show that you were waiting on, I don't give much weight to when a show is advertised to start. It doesn't seem at all unusual for a show around here to be advertised at hour X but really begins at hour X+1. I have even seen hour X+1.5. It's such a common thing that when checking out a new place, I just plan on this - and arrive about 45 minutes late. I figure if it's good, and actually did start on time, then I can just adjust my time backwards on the next visit. |
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| Author: | exweedfarmer [ Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
I think that the worst part about a truly bad karaoke show is that the uninformed bar owner now thinks all karaoke shows are like that. $40.00 a night. I wouldn't work for that no matter how much free beer was involved. |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
exweedfarmer @ Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:47 am wrote: I think that the worst part about a truly bad karaoke show is that the uninformed bar owner now thinks all karaoke shows are like that.
Most have seen better ones. The addendum to my incident is that the "company" doing karaoke has not been invited back. They did their first and last gig at the place, and they are looking for someone else. (I already have my music out on Friday, so can't do it.) |
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| Author: | leopard lizard [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
We just lost the opportunity to start at a new place because they decided they would just have the bartender run the show. Don't know yet if the bartender is also coincidently a karaoke host with a good set-up or if they just thought they would save money by having an hourly employee do the job. We shall see. |
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| Author: | spool32 [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
I was working for a place 8 months ago in a downtown area of a college town. Lots of walk by traffic and such, it was a tiny place but it started filling up completely by week 3. Then summer came and things got real slow, mainly because seasonal students that were home for the summer, but the other gigs i do, were sort of slow as well. The owner starts hitting me up for discounts off my rate, since it is the summer, its hard to find new gigs elsewhere, so instead of earning 0, i clipped a little off my rate. It really was about $25 more than the amount where I would say i wouldnt even bother leaving the house. I have about $7k invested just in my equipment and probably more than that for my Promo Only subscription and cost of Karaoke discs. But I wanted to help the bar out and try and ride it through. August and Sept come around and, things improve slightly but not much. Basically business everywhere was pretty bad. I heard from another friend I know thats a host, that its always slow through Sept in that area and picks up in October. Last week of September rolls around and at the end of the night the owner tells me "I want to try something different". Basically meaning he's hired another host. Part that pissed me off is i rode out several months at a discounted rate for him and he in the end screwed me. Course that wasnt the first time, but thats a whole other story. This summer was hard to get through for me, at the end I was only doing 3 shows a week. Things have gotten better for me lately though, i'm doing 5 regular gigs a week. Lesson learned for me. Some bar owners only care about the bottom line and not the people that try and help them out. 80% of the owners i've worked for, the $ comes first. The other 20% have had really bad hosts/DJ's and are happy to have me, i'm kind of having a problem trying to figure out who i'm doing New Years Eve for :/ My friend that lives by the gig that I lost, said they are now on their 2nd host  I'm sure their too proud to call me back and say they messed up.. even if they did, i'm not going back.
Sorry i wrote so much text on this.. but the topic definitely has hit home for me this year. I have to agree that most shows run very poor equipment, and its amazing how they even get hired. I'm sure like you guys said though, their doing it for peanuts. You definitely get what you pay for. |
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| Author: | Karen K [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
leopard lizard @ Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:10 pm wrote: We just lost the opportunity to start at a new place because they decided they would just have the bartender run the show. Don't know yet if the bartender is also coincidently a karaoke host with a good set-up or if they just thought they would save money by having an hourly employee do the job. We shall see.
This is really a good indicator of the level of understanding that a lot of owners have. Again, no clue as to what it takes to run a GREAT show. A lot of the personality traits a good bartender needs would probably transfer well to hosting, and many really great bartenders might really be good hosts, but after not making $200 in tips for the night they'd probably lose their enthusiasm for it. I wonder how many owners actually believe that it is just an across-the-board trend when their attendance begins to drop to nothing when a great hosting company beats a retreat, or if they really understand that it wasn't their establishment people were enjoying, it was the hosting company? It is probably easier for them to believe the former rather than the latter. Have to identify the problem to remedy it. |
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| Author: | leopard lizard [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
We know of a casino that did this same thing--had one of the black jack dealers or someone try to run karaoke for them. She always had the sound too loud in one section and too low in another. When that didn't work out they hired a "real" host who built up the business to booming and then got lured away by the casino across the parking lot for $400/night. Again, we don't know yet if the bartender may also be a "real" host and he/she may be doing the show on a night he/she isn't working anyway. But your suggestion that he may miss his tips gives me hope. But it could just be the restaurant owner is trying to keep it all in the family. We have a decent Yamaha system and all legal cdgs and have struggled to build up our first job from no singers to 10 to 15. My boyfriend's son just started in a different state with a set of Sweet Georgia Browns and sound they can't get to work too well and they were printing their books as people arrived. They got a big crowd and he got a wedding gig and an offer to work two more nights elsewhere. Go figure. |
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| Author: | darway [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
spool32, I have to say you were making a mistake by thinking the owner viewed you as helping out. He just viewed himself as a skilled negotiator by getting you to work for less. If you had attempted to resume the old rate, odds are he would have shopped around. You "demonstrated" to him that a lower fee is obtainable. I'm not saying that cutting your rate was a mistake. If you wanted the money, and there were no better alternatives, then that was what the market would bear. You were "making the market". |
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| Author: | spool32 [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rock Bottom karaoke |
darway @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:23 pm wrote: spool32, I have to say you were making a mistake by thinking the owner viewed you as helping out. He just viewed himself as a skilled negotiator by getting you to work for less. If you had attempted to resume the old rate, odds are he would have shopped around. You "demonstrated" to him that a lower fee is obtainable.
I'm not saying that cutting your rate was a mistake. If you wanted the money, and there were no better alternatives, then that was what the market would bear. You were "making the market". Good point. I guess in the situation I had no choice, because even that cut rate was needed to survive so i did in essence alter the market. Its really hard in the current economy to figure out if i'm always making the right decisions. I didnt even get the chance to resume the old rate, he already shopped me around and found someone new. Course that guy sold em on false promises of "following" and marketing, because he's not there anymore either. |
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