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Will somebody spend my money?
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Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Will somebody spend my money?
Ok, maybe it was just a joke; you can’t spend my money. I do need help with the upgrading of my equipment, as I am 98% confident that someone is purchasing my old stuff. I have been lurking on here and reading equipment reviews but as a novice I am overwhelmed. So some help from the experts would be great.
I’ll list what I’m replacing because I want to be sure I’m upgrading and not down grading.

Mixer Yamaha MG12/4
Yamaha P2500S Amp
Peavey 115DL speakers
Fleco CDG+ with Digital Key Changer
NADY Duo Wireless Mics


My equipment stays in my basement a majority of the time where my family has fun trying to sing. I do about 10 other free events throughout the year. The events I do include outdoor venues with up to 100 people, Indoor events is approx. 6,000 Sq Ft with approx 150 people. The music played is anything from hip hop to country. My current system is Ok but I know better exists. I am thinking my new system should have a sub and crossover for the larger events but I would not hook them up when using the system in the basement. I’m open to suggestions because I think the majority of this forum has forgotten more than I’ll ever know. Below is the equipment I’m thinking of.

Laptop – I own a laptop and I am going to purchase Compuhost soon
Mixer - Yamaha MW12CX 12-Channel USB Mixer with Effects ???? or the Mackie USB??

AMP - ?????????

Speakers – A local dealer has custom made speakers with Eminence (sp?) components ???? Maybe something different? How about a sub for thunderous lows? Do you recommend a monitor speaker(s)?

Rack Case - ?????

Crossover - ?????? Do I even need one?

Lighting - ???????

My budget for this portion of the upgrade needs to be less than $3000. Hopefully I provided enough information for you guys to help. Like I said I am fairly illiterate so I’ll ask a lot of questions. Hell I’m not sure I could figure out how to hook up a crossover and Biamp something if that’s a suggestion but I’ll appreciate any help you can give.

Be Safe, Happy Holidays!
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
BasementKaraoke @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:30 pm wrote:
Ok, maybe it was just a joke; you can’t spend my money. I do need help with the upgrading of my equipment, as I am 98% confident that someone is purchasing my old stuff. I have been lurking on here and reading equipment reviews but as a novice I am overwhelmed. So some help from the experts would be great.
I’ll list what I’m replacing because I want to be sure I’m upgrading and not down grading.

Mixer Yamaha MG12/4
Yamaha P2500S Amp
Peavey 115DL speakers
Fleco CDG+ with Digital Key Changer

Nothing terribly wrong with any of that except...

Quote:
NADY Duo Wireless Mics

That.

Mics and speakers are the most important things in a signal chain, by far. I don't understand why you would front such generally good equipment with those mics. That is by far your biggest room for improvement in the karaoke area. For $125 wired/$400 wireless, you could buy a pro-quality main mic that would greatly improve your vocal sound. SM58 is a great mic for karaoke because of it's cardioid pattern, durability, and very good sound.

Overall, your equipment seems pretty decent to me, though the 200W Peavey 115DL speakers are a bit of a weak link in my limited experience. If I were to do it, I think I would keep the mixer, the amp, and add:

* DBX DriveRack PA
* Pair Yorkville/Mackie/QSC/EV 12" powered speakers
* DBX 266xl compressor for vocals
* Lexicon MX200 effects processor
* A sub to use the power from your amp

Put it all in one of these cases:

http://audiopile.net/products/Cases/CU_ ... tsheet.asp

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i- ... 6WDLX-LIST

and you will have a kicking setup. All of that should run around 3K if you shop around. Well, maybe a bit more with the rack.
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
BasementKaraoke @ Sat 27 Dec, 2008 12:30 pm wrote:
Ok, maybe it was just a joke; you can’t spend my money.


Dang, I thought perhaps I can help you out, but seems I'm of no use;)

(i don't know diddly about equipment buying, but when i purchased my home set up, people here were very helpful with suggestions and helped me make my final decision... when I get ready to buy my new speakers, I'll be asking here again)

Seriously, I'm of no help, unless of course you just truly wanted someone to spend your money (that... I can do). :D Good luck to ya though.
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
[/quote]
Nothing terribly wrong with any of that except...

Quote:
NADY Duo Wireless Mics

That.


Oh come on, the folks at Nady are discouraged at your Hoosier Hospitality :lol:


I pieced the system together with limited funds, thus the Peavey 115's.

The Nady mics were more of an experiment to see if I even wanted wireless mics or not. I have gotten my $40 dollars out of them! They have taken some drunken abuse but they do not sound anything like my wired mics. I think the wired are called excell and cost $60.00. I'm sure the Shure sounds even better and I will be getting some at tax time. I have to crank the Nady channel all the way up to even get them to a level you can hear. Oh well they were worth 40 dollars for what I used them for.

How about the Samson stage 55 as an intermediate priced mic?


Also if I sell the guy wants everything I have (PA Equip). So what USB mixer would you recommend? Would you still get a amp to power the sub or would you get an active sub?

I'm lost with the DBX driver. Is it also a crossover? What does it do in Layman's terms?

Thanks again for the advise![/quote]
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
Quote:
Dang, I thought perhaps I can help you out, but seems I'm of no use;)


How did I know the title would catch the ladies attention :?:
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
(somehow dual-posted)
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
BasementKaraoke @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:41 pm wrote:
Quote:
Nothing terribly wrong with any of that except...

Quote:
NADY Duo Wireless Mics

That.


Oh come on, the folks at Nady are discouraged at your Hoosier Hospitality :lol:

I am afraid mics are the one thing I notice right away, and the first time I held a Nady mic I fell in hate. Nothing I have seen since then has changed my mind.

Quote:
I pieced the system together with limited funds, thus the Peavey 115's.

The Nady mics were more of an experiment to see if I even wanted wireless mics or not. I have gotten my $40 dollars out of them! They have taken some drunken abuse but they do not sound anything like my wired mics. I think the wired are called excell and cost $60.00. I'm sure the Shure sounds even better and I will be getting some at tax time. I have to crank the Nady channel all the way up to even get them to a level you can hear. Oh well they were worth 40 dollars for what I used them for.

How about the Samson stage 55 as an intermediate priced mic?

I don't know -- have never used them. Got some good reports from the same people who like Nady mics, so take that for what it is worth.

I have sung through a Samson wired mic several times, and it seemed to sound pretty good with minimal handling noise. Couldn't tell you what head, though. Stage 7 comes to mind, but I don't know.

Quote:
Also if I sell the guy wants everything I have (PA Equip). So what USB mixer would you recommend? Would you still get a amp to power the sub or would you get an active sub?

I like the Yamaha mixers myself, because of the compression included.

With regard to powered/non-powered, I like both options. (How is that for wimping out?) I feel you can get more done for less cost with non-powered, but powered can be convenient. The speakers are by definition well-matched to the amp.

Each has its own way of being more flexible.

For karaoke and a *small* amount of DJ, I think powered 15s are the way to go. You can do a pretty dynamite system for 3K with those, including some name-brand speakers like EV or Yorkville.

If the DJ/House/rap is important to you, go 12" tops with subs. If you have to get the mixer and amp as well, the 3K budget is going to limit what you do. Probably higher-end stuff is out of reach. I will let someone else pronounce what you should do. For max output, I would probably recommend Behringer non-powered with amps. Resale value would be not nearly as good, though. You might be better off buying the good powered 12" to begin with, and adding sub as you get more money.

Quote:
I'm lost with the DBX driver. Is it also a crossover? What does it do in Layman's terms?

It is a crossover, graphic equalizer, subsonic enhancer, aural exciter, parametric equalizer, and feedback suppression all in one. You can run a wizard to match it to your room and get an excellent start toward making your system sound as good as it can. Particularly if you have both tops and sub.
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
mckyj57 @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:25 pm wrote:
BasementKaraoke @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:41 pm wrote:
Quote:

I'm lost with the DBX driver. Is it also a crossover? What does it do in Layman's terms?

It is a crossover, graphic equalizer, subsonic enhancer, aural exciter, parametric equalizer, and feedback suppression all in one. You can run a wizard to match it to your room and get an excellent start toward making your system sound as good as it can. Particularly if you have both tops and sub.


Forgive me for my ignorance. So if I purchased the DBX driver and the Yamaha mixer why would I need the

* DBX 266xl compressor for vocals
* Lexicon MX200 effects processor ?

If I purchase these will you drive to Terre Haute and help me hook it up? :lol:
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
BasementKaraoke @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:03 pm wrote:
mckyj57 @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:25 pm wrote:
BasementKaraoke @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:41 pm wrote:
Quote:

I'm lost with the DBX driver. Is it also a crossover? What does it do in Layman's terms?

It is a crossover, graphic equalizer, subsonic enhancer, aural exciter, parametric equalizer, and feedback suppression all in one. You can run a wizard to match it to your room and get an excellent start toward making your system sound as good as it can. Particularly if you have both tops and sub.


Forgive me for my ignorance. So if I purchased the DBX driver and the Yamaha mixer why would I need the

* DBX 266xl compressor for vocals
* Lexicon MX200 effects processor ?

If I purchase these will you drive to Terre Haute and help me hook it up? :lol:

You wouldn't need the compressor. I still use the Lexicon, myself.

And yes, I would, if you could wait until one of my trips to Champaign IL. 8-) I make them about every other month, but have one due in mid-January (about the 16th or so).
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
mckyj57 @ Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:30 pm wrote:

And yes, I would, if you could wait until one of my trips to Champaign IL. 8-) I make them about every other month, but have one due in mid-January (about the 16th or so).


You're too easy to get along with!
Author:  leopard lizard [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
...and very helpful also. But I have a recurring nightmare that one day he turns up at our show and throws our mics against the wall.
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
leopard lizard @ Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:29 pm wrote:
...and very helpful also. But I have a recurring nightmare that one day he turns up at our show and throws our mics against the wall.


If you use the NADY DUO it will take the abuse and still sound GREAT!!!


Disclaimer - The above statement was a joke. Do not attack me in a dark alley.
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
So the 2% prevailed, the guy didn't buy my equipment. That is not a bad deal I will be able to use Mcky's suggestion about upgrading the speakers and using my amp for the sub. Mcky suggested powered 12" with a sub. If I buy powered 15" speakers and 1 - 15" or 18" sub is that overkill?


As far as hooking up the equipment up. From the DBX PA the low Lt and Rt would be routed to the amp then to the Sub? Would I run the amp in bridge mode or would both Lt and Rt channels go into the amp? The amp is a Yamaha P2500S and I'm open to suggestion on the sub.

The mids and Highs would just go to the speakers from the DBX PA? Would the mid and high each have their own cable so 2 cables would plug into each speaker?

I'm trying to figure this out because my current speakers only have 2- 1/4" Jacks.

Thanks for your patience, I know I am behind in electronics knowledge.
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
BasementKaraoke @ Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:33 pm wrote:
So the 2% prevailed, the guy didn't buy my equipment. That is not a bad deal I will be able to use Mcky's suggestion about upgrading the speakers and using my amp for the sub. Mcky suggested powered 12" with a sub. If I buy powered 15" speakers and 1 - 15" or 18" sub is that overkill?


You want your sub to be at least the same size as your main cab - so if it's a 15" you want at least a 15", but an 18" would not necessarily be overkill for larger rooms.


Quote:
As far as hooking up the equipment up. From the DBX PA the low Lt and Rt would be routed to the amp then to the Sub? Would I run the amp in bridge mode or would both Lt and Rt channels go into the amp? The amp is a Yamaha P2500S and I'm open to suggestion on the sub.

The lows would go to the sub amp. You could run it bridged provided your subs could handle the bridged power. That amp pushes 650 watts into 8 ohms bridged & 1300 watts into 4 ohms bridged. Which sub are you considering?
Author:  LondonLive [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
News Flash, no place is it written or recommended by Yamaha to run any of the "P" series amplifiers in a four ohm bridged configuration. I have had lengthy conversations with the tech boys at Yamaha on the subject. I had phone conversations with Yamaha because I felt that the literature on the "P" series amps at best was vague and at the worst, misleading. Even though they show a spec in the back of the manual showing a output at 4 ohms bridged they are quick to point out that is strictly for reference and is only a 20 millisecond test for clip. They are emphatic that the "P" series amplifiers are NOT to be run @ four ohms bridged particularly on a highly reactive load, which is a sub.
Sorry to hear your sale fell through, so now what is your budget and your goal?
Author:  mckyj57 [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
I was going to suggest a single 18" sub taking 500-600W or so, at 8 ohms. Something like the JBL MRX518S. WIth the DriveRack PA you can run a mono sub out of the crossover.

I suggested 12" tops because of weight and the fact that you planned on having a sub. You could run 15" tops of course, even with a 15" sub. But 12" tops with a nice hard-hitting 18" sub should be plenty, and may give you cleaner sound than the 15"/18" combination.

But mostly listen to the two guys above, they know more than I do.
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
Lonman @ Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:45 pm wrote:
Which sub are you considering?



I am open to suggestions! As you can tell I'm trying to learn but I am overwhelmed at this time. I did see a sub, JBL I think, that had a retractable handle and wheels which seemed like a good idea for portability.



LondonLive wrote:
Sorry to hear your sale fell through, so now what is your budget and your goal?


I think I'm better off keeping the stuff I have and upgrading a little to save the precious $$$$$.

Since I didn't sell my other equipment I'm looking at a budget of $1200 (according to the wife) but I think I can talk her out of $2500 by March and another 1,000 by June. The budget would need to include some lighting. Again, I don't have a clue about the lights so some help would be appreciated.


My goal... Improve the sound quality and be able to meet the demands of the larger venues. My current system is pushed to the max when doing an outside party or a room holding 150 people. Don't get me wrong I don't consider myself a professional! I do it as a hobby for free. I do get compliment's and I get asked what I would charge to do weddings and such but I only do thing's for friends as I am very aware of my equipment and personal limitation's. With that being said, my sister and a close friend is getting married in 2009 and I will be hosting the reception so I want it to sound as good as possible on my limited budget. Since I only do it for friends it is a variety of singing and filler. Requested music gets played at first, then alcohol encourages singers, then more alcohol ends up with a bunch of people dancing to rock and hip-hop. So I need to be versatile with the lows.


Mcky57- You spurred my curiosity with the mic conversation. I tried my Nady DUO and my wired mic last night. I found that the wired Excel is not as good as the Nady, it's only hotter. I didn't realize how s h i t t y my mics were. I can't wait to try a SM58 in a couple of weeks.

All of your help is appreciated!
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
I forgot to ask this during my last post. I have Guitar Center locally, do they take trade ins or is it better to sell the Peavey 115DL on EBAY?

What are the 115's worth?


I would still like to get the USB version Yamaha mixer because I have read it will improve my sound over the headphone jack to RCA that I currently use. So I could trade in my Yamaha mixer also.
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
Actually if you just keep the Peaveys & amp use those for the tops & just get a sub & amp or powered sub with the Driverack you may be pleasantly surprised how much difference the sub will add. At least I would try that first rather than getting an entire new speakers system.
Author:  BasementKaraoke [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Will somebody spend my money?
Lonman @ Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:53 pm wrote:
Actually if you just keep the Peaveys & amp use those for the tops & just get a sub & amp or powered sub with the Driverack you may be pleasantly surprised how much difference the sub will add. At least I would try that first rather than getting an entire new speakers system.


Sounds good to me I was just guessing those speakers were outdated and low grade pro audio gear. I was surprised when I did a search on that model and they are early 90's if I remember correctly.

The salesman must have seen me coming because I was under the impression they were the latest and greatest. If only I knew of this site two years ago :roll:
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