Karaoke Forums

We have had plenty of discussions, including a recent one, as to who manufactures the best karaoke discs. Many respondents have offered that they have come to their conclusion based upon which manufacturer's products sound most like the original. Please note further that one former member of this forum insisted that to truly be a professional, one must listen to every track in ones collection and select only the best track for inclusion in ones song catalog. When I asked him what criteria should be used in judging said tracks, that former member stated, "the one closest to the original"

I put forth for your consideration that to make such a determination, one would have to be intimately familiar with the original version of every song ever made for karaoke along with every manufacturer's rendition of said karaoke track.

I realize that there are some people who have an enormous wealth of discography in their heads. Few, however, have enough in their memories to meet the challenge of determining which track in their library sounds closest to the original.

For example, I have compared notes with my much younger business partner who has an extensive knowledge of music beginning with the 80's. While I can't come close to matching his familiarity with that time period, he can't match my knowledge of songs prior to the 80's.

And as it has so often been acknowledged, we all have discs with tracks on it we weren't even looking for. I would guess a lot of those unwanted tracks are songs we really aren't familiar with?

Also, note that a current thread is now discussing tracks with errors in lyrics. And while I know "my" music very well, remembering the lyrics to those songs is not my forte and I probably would miss many a wrong lyric that appears on karaoke tracks! Can a track with utterly wrong lyrics qualify as the track closest to the original? And aren't erroneous lyrics often an intentional occurrence?

I ask, further, which of the following do you consider in selecting the closest to the original (assuming that you are intimately familiar with the original)?

COMPLETENESS OF MATERIAL (number of bars of music)

AUDIO QUALITY

MUSICAL ARRANGEMENT

INSTRUMENTATION

COMPLETENESS AND ACCURACY OF BACKUP VOCALS

TEMPO

LYRICS

KEY

In closing, I believe that if all of the preceding were taken into consideration when judging the best manufacturer, you'll be less inclined to pre-judge any one manufacturer as being superior to all others. You may recognize a manufacturer that is generally superior as to the songs that you enjoy. Or, you may find a manufacturer that is generally superior for the particular artists you gravitate to. Or you may find a manufacturer that is more consistently superior as to the arrangement. However, perhaps your evaluation in all instances is personal and someone else may disagree with you completely?

Whoa--you are quite the analyst. BUT, here goes:

Don't care so much about every closing bar of outro lingering on forever, however I like all the verses to be there. eg. Zoom has a good arrangement on "Money For Nothing" but leaves most the verses out. We have had singers complain that the outro singing wasn't on some songs and they keep singing after the music stops. I myself have trouble making the same words repeated over and over again at the end sound interesting and usually leave the stage at those moments.

Audio: I like it to be clear and pleasant on the ears. Some songs can have a more accurate arrangement but be recorded either too muddy or two harsh. I like it to sound like a band is playing and not a recording.

Muscial Arrangement: Some singers want more exact than others. I like it to be close enough to the original that it captures the spirit. For instance, if there is a signature guitar riff then that has to be there. Or if the drums have the right beat but don't boom in to accent a certain spot like they should, it is somehow less exciting. The wrong tempo has gotten us more complaints than the arrangement but serious singers tend to want an accurate reproduction of all elements. Or if it is someone's favorite song that they play 100 times a day at home, they want to hear THAT song when they do it at karaoke. Of course those people often bring their own discs.

Back up singers are my downfall. If they are overpowering, I can't find the tune. The boyfriend is a good singer and likes them to be where they should be. He hates it when some tracks confuse the lead with the backup singers and assign the wrong part to the wrong person--in other words, he should be singing the lead but the version has back-up singers doing it--or some back up singer shouting, "come on now," or whatever when that was the lead vocalist's part. The middle part of "You've Got Your Troubles" is an example and has fouled up a few people. Seems some brands try to make it easier on the singer but if they know the song, it just makes it harder.

Tempo: Exceedingly important. It needs to be accurate. It seems like some brands may slow down their songs a bit? Anyway, could be the alcohol but I have had more complaints about Sound Choice rockers being too slow lately than any other brand. As I often buy them for the best arrangement, it has shocked me to get so many complaints about them. Now I preview first whenever possible. eg. Legends actually beat both CB and SC on "Come On Eileen" for arrangement accuracy but we ended up buying the Zoom version for accuracy AND audio quality. Although Legends has been pleasantly surprising us lately. We've had people actually request their versions as sounding more like the original.

Lyrics: Not a problem for me as I usually have to practice a song so many times before I do it that I know the words and only look at the screen for reminders. But I have been tripped up a few times when some strange ones come up so it can be an annoyance. Just for the added terror, I learned a few songs in Spanish and when the wrong words come up on those, I can't cover as easily. But lyrics are a difficult thing to preview first. How would you know who had the most accurate when every brand seems to have a problem now and again. Anyway, it is just another opportunity for some fun "messed up" entertainment, although some people don't take it that way......

Key: This seems to be the latest thing for the real aficianados to talk about. Have heard brands criticized as not recording their tracks in the original keys. One singer who comes to our show seems to know what key every song should be in and when he sees what brand comes up, has us adjust it accordingly before it even plays! If I could sing on key to begin with, I might worry about it but......

Was that your question? I think it would kill you to have to make an assessment of each song when you first start out. You might never make it past step one. You just have to buy some sets and then start adjusting as you gain experience. Then you preview each song when you start filling requests and base your selection on what your singers have been telling you is important to them and what experience you have had on how you can make things sound. And how much money you have.

To me the best discs are those that is made from the original recording. We are very lucky that many record label also produce karaoke version of the songs and many use original artist in the vid clip.

I still can't reason out why Sonny is not doing it in the West when they are the about the biggest karaoke manu in Asia now.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Copyright laws, Jian!

Sonny own almost half the world music industry; you mean to say they can't negotiate a deal with the song writers?

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Leopard

Yours was exactly the type of response I was hoping would be provided

As good as they might sound, all those independent manus would get squashed if the major labels started producing karaoke from the original recordings!
Maybe its inevitable, if there's money to be made, the bigger fish will simply eat the smaller fish. It would be a shame for me personally, I'm in the middle of setting up as a small karaoke manu.

I don't pretend to be judge and jury of "The Best". Therefore in my case, "The Best" version is the most popular or most chosen version by my singers. That's why I leave ALL versions in my books.

Of course, if I were asked to choose the best version by a less experienced singer, I would choose based on MY taste.

IMHO, there is no "best" version, anymore than there is a "best" Karaoke Host- just different versions.

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" Disc based and loving it..."

Okay I'll give it a try

COMPLETENESS OF MATERIAL (number of bars of music)
I personally prefer songs with long intros and outros be shortened, but most of the time the better versions include them. The consenses from the singers is they don't like them either. No one likes standing on stage for 2 minutes waiting for the music intro to be done, so they can sing. When I sing "Heartbreaker" at other venues. I can literally finish singing the song, get down off the stage, order a drink and be seated before the song is over. I've even clapped for myself as a joke after. Most people just want to get up and sing. These long usually unwanted intros and outros take up singers time. I could get more people up to sing without them, but of course I can always fade them out. I've never never had anyone complain about fading out a long outro. Especially from the next person standing there waiting to sing. I would pick quality of music over avoiding long intros and outros though.

AUDIO QUALITY
Like you said it is impossible to listen to every version to compare it to the original, so I usually go with Soundchoice. They seem to be the most consistant in quality. This is the most important to me, audio quality. I like a clean crisp sound, something I can work with. There is only so much you can do with a mixer. If it sounds like they are playing in their garage, they probably were.

MUSICAL ARRANGEMENT
I think Leopard explain it perfectly. This would be the second on my list. What's the point of making a song with a different arrangement. I would say it is a poor quality disc otherwise.

INSTRUMENTATION
Of course the musicians should be top notch. I have not noticed this to be a problem with Soundchoice recordings. Again I trust the manufacturer.

COMPLETENESS AND ACCURACY OF BACKUP VOCALS
There is nothing worse than loud backup vocals that impede on a singers voice. Once in a while I will notice a recording that does this. It isn't a decision breaker, but it does have its place. Sometimes it is an advantage to a poor singer or someone who doesn't know the song well.
Good backup vocals can truly make a singer sound better and more professional. I would pick one manu over another because of it, but only if music quality was good.

MISSING VERSES
This only seems to be a problem with songs that are obviously shortened. It is supposed to be a 4 minute song and they make it a 2 minute song. I'm trying to remember a song in particular. I think it's "Thunder rolls", Soundchoice. The last verse is missing and it is obvious. As long as I've been a KJ I can only remember a couple songs that people complained about with this happening. It is rare. I would not buy from a manu that made this a constant.


TEMPO
Yikes I hate when the tempo seems off, but I can a adjust for that. Not a huge concern for me. I would look at all the other attributes of the song first.

LYRICS
I don't know that this is a huge concern either. A few wrong words don't seem to bother anyone. If anything they get a big laugh out of it. You can always use the correct words instead, if you know them. I find most of the recordings I have are true to the lyrics anyway. I too have seen this problem with almost all manus. It doesn't seem to be of importance to them to get it right.

KEY
I prefer the key be the same as the original, but we all know manus change it up time to time. I can adjust keys with my players, so this also isn't a huge concern for me.

VOLUME
I'm listing this one because it is a personal pet peave of mine. Why can't a manu record all their songs at the same level? Maybe there is a reason, I don't know, but it's a pain in my butt. One song starts soft the other starts blistering loud. Or how about the songs that jump from really soft to loud in the middle. Yes some songs call for this because the chorus is louder and such. I'm talking about when they take it over the top. The original doesn't have that much distinction. I fix it so the singer would never know, but it is extra work for me.

For the most part I buy Soundchoice unless I know there is a better version out there or soundchoice doesn't make it. Music quality is my number one concern. Sometimes you have to give and take with the other attributes. I basically go with what I think is the most consistant overall manu because I can't listen to every song version. Price rarely is a concern because I am established now I only have to buy new songs, so I'd rather put my money where I can hear it.

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Important for me, I do not like the way some manus chop out parts of the song just to make it more time managed. Long outros are completely fine with me as I as a host can fade them out if needed or let them play if i'm low on singers & need to fill out some time.
Long intros could be chopped a bit IF it does not interfere with the natural flow of the song in where a singer should start singing. Also songs that have immediate vocal starts I wish all manus would give a key & a 4 count click in. Some just start with no warning or key to match up to.


Very important, probably on of the more important factors in my decision. Too many companies with midi-fied instruments - especially drums.


Arrangement must be familiar to the known version.


Kind of goes along with audio quality, if the instruments don't sound good or accurate to the original, then I will look for something better.


This is a back & forth. Sometimes it would be nice to have versions without any backups for like group songs, but then since karaoke is typically one singer, it's nice to have the regular backup harmonies - provided they are correct.


Prefer correct tempo, but if you software has a tempo adjustment, not as big of a deal.


Obviously would prefer accurate lyrics.


Again would prefer accurate key. DK was notorious for lowering keys for songs they deemed too high for the average singer.

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One of the things that has developed with my main "Heartbreaker" singer is that after the last chorus she'll leave the mic like she's finished, then quickly turn around, grab it and yell "No No No!" then actually leave the stage but run back up for another "No No No!" and keep it up as long as the crowd is with her. I'll fade when I think she's done. It's a pretty good show.

As far as discs are concerned I try to keep an open mind as to brands and judge on individual track quality. Maybe because I'm relatively new at this, I don't hold SC in the highest regard like many of you do. I have a lot of SC and respect them as a quality manufacturer, but I'm also hearing good things from many sources. Especially when it comes to new material.

I have appreciated reading your responses regarding the important criteria for rating tracks. I am still perplexed, though, as to which criterion is most important and how someone rates one manufacturer's track to be (generally) superior to anothers? I don't believe that any karaoke manufacturer excels in each criterion on every track!

I know there are manus I prefer for certain TYPES of music. As I have previously indicated, if I'm looking for Elvis or DooWop I prefer Music Maestro. (The private karaoke club we have here in S Fl - Singer's - exists with a library that is 80% Music Maestro and that hasn't been updated in at least 3 years!

Slight OT. Karaoke reproductions should consider tightening the instrumental bridge, if possible.

I've seen people attempt "Magic Man" and "We Want The Funk" which have bridges over 40 measures long! The last time I saw one of these tried, the singer and some audience members started joking around... looking at their watches, walking back to their seats for their drinks, pretending to nap on the floor, etc.

A few nights ago I tried "You're All I've got Tonight" by The Cars. It's by some obscure manu called Honky Cat or something. Anyway, it was so bad and MIDI-sounding that the KJ started joking during the song that it reminded him of an old Pac-Man game. (I took it in stride and played along with the nyuk-nyuk, there was no getting around how obviously cheezy it was.)

For many, its not just about the song but the MUSIC. (As a former non-singer but dance floor inhabitant, if the singer wasn't good then a good backing track would still get you out there.) So for the most part, the manufacturer who gives you the closest EXPERIENCE to what you have when you listen to the original gets my nod. eg. What would "Smooth" be without the Santana guitar/percussian?

Leopard

But that still begs the question as to what criteria must be used to determine what manufacturer's karaoke track is most consistent with the original. What if someone uses some criteria other than yours (the instrumentation) for "Smooth" as the determinant for what they consider to be the best karaoke track?

Well, on "Smooth," what else is there but that music? You may have a question that is very subjective and not quantifiable. For me, the track that gives the same thrill as listening to a favorite song is the one I would choose and that would probably be made up of your elements of arrangement via real instruments, audio quality, tempo and key. The tracks that get me are the ones that sound like there is actually a live band playing when you push that button.

But now you are fouling me up here. Was just listening to our Zoom Beatles tracks (do miss that piano thundering in at the right moment on "Day In The Life" ) and in some cases the music CAN clutter overpower the singer. So there is probably a special art to having the correct instruments boom in at the right moments for the accurate "feel" to the song yet stay in the background for the rest, even if that's not how the original goes. But the talent for making those arrangements would be something that was a gift and thus resistant to analysis.